"Andy" wrote in message
...
On Feb 12, 6:44 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 12 Feb, 18:31, MIG wrote:





On Feb 12, 6:23 pm, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

The other thing about the Victoria - Bellingham service ('SLL2' as
I've called it) that I didn't mention earlier is that it conveniently
runs out of Victoria's less busy eastern side, thus freeing up
platforms in the central side of the station - the South London RUS
highlights this as a benefit of this plan. So the SLL is basically
seen as the weakest link at both London Bridge and Victoria (central),
getting the boot from both of them, though space is then offered up in
Victoria eastern for its SLL2 replacement to Bellingham. Of course
this also precludes a stop at Battersea Park, because trains from the
eastern side of Victoria can't even get on to the central side's
tracks to get to Battersea Park in the first place (and making complex
alterations to enable this would no doubt be unwelcome).

I'm sure they can. There's a crossover that can be reached from
platforms 3 - 8, leading to the "Brighton Slow" tracks.

I dithered before writing that and in retrospect it's silly - I know
full well that there's a connection as platform 8 is served by both
Southeastern and Southern trains. However I though that was the only
one eastern side platform - platform 8 - that could access the central
side's tracks (perhaps I should actually be talking about eastern and
central divisions - sounds a bit like a yankee sports league!). It's
highly likely I'm wrong!


I don't think that platform 8 is regularly used by Southeastern
trains. It is accessed by from the Southern gateline and there is a
gate between it and platform 7. Physically, the pointwork allows all
of platforms 3-8 access to/from the 'Brighton' lines at Victoria
(rather than via Stewarts Lane), but I can't remember if the
signalling allows it.

It certainly does.

Up Brighton Slow VC532
Theatre Light
Platforms 3 to 15



Position Light
Calling on

"Andy" wrote

I don't think that platform 8 is regularly used by Southeastern
trains. It is accessed by from the Southern gateline and there is a
gate between it and platform 7. Physically, the pointwork allows all
of platforms 3-8 access to/from the 'Brighton' lines at Victoria
(rather than via Stewarts Lane), but I can't remember if the
signalling allows it.

IIRC platform 8 has its own gates, and can't be accessed through the gates
to any other platform. It has at least until quite recently been used by
Southeastern trains. Time was, of course, when it was a full length
platform, and regularly used by - and specifically labelled for - the Golden
Arrow.

Peter

wrote

The DfT has actually announced that an Ealing Broadway Wandsworth
Road rail bus replacement rail replacement service (IYSWIM!) is going
to be part of the new Southern franchise. And what an awkward bugger
to run it's going to be, as one of Southern's Class 171 units will
have to be diverted to service it. See The Ticket Collector for the
saga, at: http://theticketcollector.wordpress.com

Can it reverse conveniently at Ealing Broadway - and if not, how much
further will it have to go - the bay platform at Hayes&H, Greenford?

Peter

On Feb 12, 4:23*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 12 Feb, 14:49, MIG wrote:



(snip)


Regarding connections at Queen's Road Peckham (QRP) and Peckham Rye -
for reasons unclear to me the new (Dec '08) timetable removed 2tph off-
peak from London Bridge via Peckham Rye, Tulse Hill and West Norwood
to Smitham, reducing the service from 8tph to 6tph. My recollection is
that these ran just in front of of or behind the SLL service, so their
loss from Peckham Rye, QRP and South Bermondsey wasn't a big deal.
However the loss of the SLL service would further reduce this to 4tph
from these stations, unless the SLL trains were replaced by something
else - I imagine that they would be but this is something to look out
for.

I've just been trying to work out a possible reason for the loss of
two trains per hour from LB via Queens Road.

They seem to have been sacrificed to make way for doubling the
previous Horsham/Tonbridge services to two to Horsham plus two to
Reigate/Tonbridge. The number of departures from LB terminus is the
same.

It's not quite as straightforward as that, because the latter run from
Charing Cross, but the fast Tattenham Corners now start from the
terminus instead of Charing Cross.

(I don't really see why off-peak departures from LB terminus need to
be restricted, but maybe it's the Croydon area that can't fit them in
now.)

In all that, Smitham loses one train per hour and Tattenhan Corner
gains one, because there's an hourly Purley - Tattenham Corner.

On Feb 12, 8:23*pm, Andy wrote:
On Feb 12, 6:44*pm, Mizter T wrote:





On 12 Feb, 18:31, MIG wrote:

On Feb 12, 6:23*pm, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

The other thing about the Victoria - Bellingham service ('SLL2' as
I've called it) that I didn't mention earlier is that it conveniently
runs out of Victoria's less busy eastern side, thus freeing up
platforms in the central side of the station - the South London RUS
highlights this as a benefit of this plan. So the SLL is basically
seen as the weakest link at both London Bridge and Victoria (central),
getting the boot from both of them, though space is then offered up in
Victoria eastern for its SLL2 replacement to Bellingham. Of course
this also precludes a stop *at Battersea Park, because trains from the
eastern side of Victoria can't even get on to the central side's
tracks to get to Battersea Park in the first place (and making complex
alterations to enable this would no doubt be unwelcome).

I'm sure they can. *There's a crossover that can be reached from
platforms 3 - 8, leading to the "Brighton Slow" tracks.

I dithered before writing that and in retrospect it's silly - I know
full well that there's a connection as platform 8 is served by both
Southeastern and Southern trains. However I though that was the only
one eastern side platform - platform 8 - that could access the central
side's tracks (perhaps I should actually be talking about eastern and
central divisions - sounds a bit like a yankee sports league!). It's
highly likely I'm wrong!

I don't think that platform 8 is regularly used by Southeastern
trains. It is accessed by from the Southern gateline and *there is a
gate between it and platform 7. Physically, the pointwork allows all
of platforms 3-8 access to/from the 'Brighton' lines at Victoria
(rather than via Stewarts Lane), but I can't remember if the
signalling allows it.-

My experience is that it's used more by Southeastern than Southern,
and it actually has its own gateline, because there's a very big wall
between it and platform 9.

In fact it's a horrible bottleneck. If you arrive at platform 8 in
the peak (as I've done on Southeastern trains many times) in anything
other than the first couple of coaches, it's best to walk towards the
back and then down platform 7.

On Feb 12, 8:22*pm, wrote:
On 12 Feb, 19:17, Mizter T wrote:

On 12 Feb, 19:05, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

It is physically possible for trains to go direct from Wandsworth Road
straight onto the WLL for West Brompton, Kensington Olympia and the
rest.

They should do that once or twice a day, at start or end of service, to get
a train from NXG to/from the WLL. *Could allow half of that so called XC
'ghost bus' service to be binned...

Yes, I suggested the same myself back in those 'ghost bus' threads!
The 'LO trackbasher's special', at especially inhospitable hours!

The DfT has actually announced that an Ealing Broadway Wandsworth
Road rail bus replacement rail replacement service (IYSWIM!) is going
to be part of the new Southern franchise. And what an awkward bugger
to run it's going to be, as one of Southern's Class 171 units will
have to be diverted to service it.

Delightfully insane - gawd bless DafT. If it happens, my money's on an
SO service - the flymo fleet is less stretched and engineering work
provides a good reason to cancel it on a regular basis.

On 12 Feb, 20:42, "Peter Masson" wrote:

"Andy" wrote

I don't think that platform 8 is regularly used by Southeastern
trains. It is accessed by from the Southern gateline and *there is a
gate between it and platform 7. Physically, the pointwork allows all
of platforms 3-8 access to/from the 'Brighton' lines at Victoria
(rather than via Stewarts Lane), but I can't remember if the
signalling allows it.

IIRC platform 8 has its own gates, and can't be accessed through the gates
to any other platform. It has at least until quite recently been used by
Southeastern trains. Time was, of course, when it was a full length
platform, and regularly used by - and specifically labelled for - the Golden
Arrow.


Platform 8 does indeed have its own gateline - whilst it can't be
accessed from any of the central side platforms it is possible to
reach it from the eastern side platforms by walking all the way up to
the end of platform 7 (there are cycle racks up this way) - this map
of the station illustrates this (PDF):
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/documents/For Passengers/Station Maps/
4510_Victoria Station Map.pdf

My recollection is that it is attended to by Southeastern gateline
staff.

Southeastern trains certainly do make regular use of platform 8 - the
Dartford trains arrive and depart from there sometimes, perhaps it
normally only happens around peak times (?).

Didn't know that was the Golden Arrow platform - I'll remember that
next time I'm hopping on an EMU there!

On 12 Feb, 20:22, wrote:

On 12 Feb, 19:17, Mizter T wrote:

On 12 Feb, 19:05, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

It is physically possible for trains to go direct from Wandsworth Road
straight onto the WLL for West Brompton, Kensington Olympia and
the rest.

They should do that once or twice a day, at start or end of service, to get
a train from NXG to/from the WLL. *Could allow half of that so called XC
'ghost bus' service to be binned...

Yes, I suggested the same myself back in those 'ghost bus' threads!
The 'LO trackbasher's special', at especially inhospitable hours!

The DfT has actually announced that an Ealing Broadway Wandsworth
Road rail bus replacement rail replacement service (IYSWIM!) is going
to be part of the new Southern franchise. And what an awkward bugger
to run it's going to be, as one of Southern's Class 171 units will
have to be diverted to service it. See The Ticket Collector for the
saga, at: http://theticketcollector.wordpress.com

Specifically for the latest announcement:
http://theticketcollector.wordpress....parliamentaryg...

Regards
Brian


Intriguing stuff, thanks for highlighting that. It'd be good to have
some further verification that this is indeed the plan, but the bit on
the Ticket Collector blog does sound convincing.

Of course, just because Southern will be responsible for running it
doesn't mean it actually has to be run by one of Southern's own trains
- they could reach an agreement with FGW or even London Overground to
get them to run it, though whether FGW or LO would be that keen is
another matter!

I still think the whole thing's pretty absurd.

On 13 Feb, 01:31, Mizter T wrote:
Intriguing stuff, thanks for highlighting that. It'd be good to have
some further verification that this is indeed the plan, but the bit on
the Ticket Collector blog does sound convincing.

I think they overstate the difficulty of running the service. All they
need to do is divide an off-peak Uckfield at East Croydon (or the next
station south if that's too hard). And the trains are based at
Selhurst, which is well positioned to send one directly up the route.
Or one of the Marshlink trains could be sent to Ealing and back on
its way to/from Selhurst.

U

On Feb 13, 1:20*am, Mizter T wrote:
On 12 Feb, 20:42, "Peter Masson" wrote:

"Andy" wrote

I don't think that platform 8 is regularly used by Southeastern
trains. It is accessed by from the Southern gateline and *there is a
gate between it and platform 7. Physically, the pointwork allows all
of platforms 3-8 access to/from the 'Brighton' lines at Victoria
(rather than via Stewarts Lane), but I can't remember if the
signalling allows it.

IIRC platform 8 has its own gates, and can't be accessed through the gates
to any other platform. It has at least until quite recently been used by
Southeastern trains. Time was, of course, when it was a full length
platform, and regularly used by - and specifically labelled for - the Golden
Arrow.

Platform 8 does indeed have its own gateline - whilst it can't be
accessed from any of the central side platforms it is possible to
reach it from the eastern side platforms by walking all the way up to
the end of platform 7 (there are cycle racks up this way) - this map
of the station illustrates this (PDF):http://www.networkrail.co.uk/documen...engers/Station Maps/
4510_Victoria Station Map.pdf

My recollection is that it is attended to by Southeastern gateline
staff.

Southeastern trains certainly do make regular use of platform 8 - the
Dartford trains arrive and depart from there sometimes, perhaps it
normally only happens around peak times (?).


I just had a quick look on the Travelline North East website and
Platform 8 does only appear to see timetabled use by the Dartford
trains during the peak. At other times these seem to use platforms 6
or 7 (I only checked the morning peak though). Maybe the gateline
staff change, depending on who is using the platforms, the last time
that I used it was on a Saturday when platforms 16-19 were out of use
and Southern were using it.