This date is still being bandied around, even by Southeastern ticket
staff. Yet as far as I can see only Southern stand any chance of being
ready in time (neoprene-cloaked Oyster readers at all stations now).
Southeastern have so far done nothing towards installing equipment, and
I've yet to hear of anything binding being signed between the Southern
TOCs and TfL. Have I missed something, or is there no chance of
Southeastern and SWT being ready for PAYG before the end of the year?


--
Current nearest station: Victoria (Eastern)

In message

ose.com, Rupert Candy writes

Have I missed something, or is there no chance of
Southeastern and SWT being ready for PAYG before the end of the year?

SWT are currently "hoping for" early 2010:

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/SWT...e/LC/Fares.htm

(questions 118 and 141)

--
Paul Terry

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
.....Therefore it looks likely that the current Tube - Train
cash fares would apply for through journeys on PAYG and whatever the
zonal rates are for solely NR trips would be applied south of the river
and possibly on the outer reaches of NXEA and FCC(?). However that does
rather run against the grain of what I understand applies north of the
river on the Overground plus Chiltern, FGW, FCC and NXEA where the TfL
rate applies for rail or rail and tube journeys. At least the spectre
of a higher PAYG rate (for SWT) seems to have gone.

I've been wondering recently if one of the big issues for the TOCs is how
they deal with a cross London journey that is completely within the zonal
areas? Let's say for discussion's sake we are going from Surbiton to
Upminster. SWT price Surbiton to Waterloo as a Zone 6 to Zone 1 single
journey at £5.00, and c2c price Fenchurch St to Upminster as a Zone 1 to
Zone 6 single journey at £4.00 (the joint LU price presumably).

How then is a Surbiton to Upminster priced? TfL style pricing for a Z6-Z1-Z6
trip seems to give you half the journey free IYSWIM, but I bet the TOCs
current system doesn't. In fact the current overall single is £7.00, and
the Offpeak Day return £7.50. ...

Messy isn't it? Please forgive me if there is a simple answer to this which
has come up before...

Paul S

Rupert Candy wrote:
This date is still being bandied around, even by Southeastern ticket
staff. Yet as far as I can see only Southern stand any chance of being
ready in time (neoprene-cloaked Oyster readers at all stations now).
Southeastern have so far done nothing towards installing equipment, and
I've yet to hear of anything binding being signed between the Southern
TOCs and TfL. Have I missed something, or is there no chance of
Southeastern and SWT being ready for PAYG before the end of the year?

Installation of validators on NXEA and FCC (Great Northern route)
appears to be finished, and the ones on the Down side (Platform 2) at
Silver Street have power, though are currently "closed".

Cheers,

Barry

"Rupert Candy" wrote in message
...
This date is still being bandied around, even by Southeastern ticket
staff. Yet as far as I can see only Southern stand any chance of being
ready in time (neoprene-cloaked Oyster readers at all stations now).
Southeastern have so far done nothing towards installing equipment, and
I've yet to hear of anything binding being signed between the Southern
TOCs and TfL. Have I missed something, or is there no chance of
Southeastern and SWT being ready for PAYG before the end of the year?


--
Current nearest station: Victoria (Eastern)

One barrier at Bromley South has suddenly acquired a bit of sticky paper
saying "Oyster Cards Only", although of course it may just be a bit broken!

MaxB

Paul Corfield wrote:


Now can anyone tell me what fare will be charged to go from Richmond
to Stratford (1) entirely by tube via Z1 (2) entirely by Overground
not via Z1 and (3) by tube and train via Z1 and using SWT from
Waterloo???

Err it's OK you don't really have to answer it but it's the classic
problem case and surely represents the real nightmare that sits behind
trying to introduce a scheme like NR PAYG when no one is minded to
just have one overarching farescale. Another fun combination might
be Balham to Harrow and Wealdstone!

Well, at least the Balham end of the journey won't be too much of a
problem. Unlike Richmond, Stratford or H&W, Balham's NR and Tube are
totally seperate with their own gatelines. So "Balham (Northern)" and
"Balham (Southern)" can be in the PAYG system as two different stations
that just happen to have an OOSI between them.

Rupert Candy wrote:

This date is still being bandied around, even by Southeastern ticket
staff. Yet as far as I can see only Southern stand any chance of being
ready in time (neoprene-cloaked Oyster readers at all stations now).
Southeastern have so far done nothing towards installing equipment,
and I've yet to hear of anything binding being signed between the
Southern TOCs and TfL. Have I missed something, or is there no chance
of Southeastern and SWT being ready for PAYG before the end of the
year?

Whenever it starts, it'll be weird to have PAYG finally becoming at
least vaguely useful, rather than just an awkward and inconvenient
replacement for Savers bus tickets like it is at present. But somehow I
can't imagine it ever happening. I mean, what are the cahnces of pepole
running and working in public transport ever doing something vaguely
useful for their customers...?

solar penguin wrote:

Whenever it starts, it'll be weird to have PAYG finally becoming at
least vaguely useful, rather than just an awkward and inconvenient
replacement for Savers bus tickets like it is at present. But somehow I
can't imagine it ever happening. I mean, what are the cahnces of pepole
running and working in public transport ever doing something vaguely
useful for their customers...?



Meanwhile, in the real world, PAYG is extremely useful and has made
travelling by tube and bus much more pleasant*. Face it, if people
*didn't* find it useful and convenient we wouldn't be clamouring for it
to be extended to National Rail, would we?

It's not particularly hard to pretend that people running public
transport do nothing useful when you ignore the useful things they do.

Tom

* Example: I'm travelling from Ealing Broadway to Hammersmith. I get a
phone call from some friends in a pub in Piccadilly Circus and decide to
alter my plans and go for a swift half. If, back in the day, I'd bought
an Ealing to Hammersmith ticket, I'm screwed, I have to get off at
Hammersmith and buy a new one. Now I'm using PAYG, I just change onto
the Piccadilly and go on my merry way. That's a change that's made my
life just that little bit less regulated by someone else.

Tom Barry wrote:

solar penguin wrote:

Whenever it starts, it'll be weird to have PAYG finally becoming at
least vaguely useful, rather than just an awkward and inconvenient
replacement for Savers bus tickets like it is at present. But
somehow I can't imagine it ever happening. I mean, what are the
cahnces of pepole running and working in public transport ever doing
something vaguely useful for their customers...?



Meanwhile, in the real world, PAYG is extremely useful and has made
travelling by tube and bus much more pleasant*. Face it, if people
*didn't* find it useful and convenient we wouldn't be clamouring for
it to be extended to National Rail, would we?

It's not particularly hard to pretend that people running public
transport do nothing useful when you ignore the useful things they do.

Tom

* Example: I'm travelling from Ealing Broadway to Hammersmith. I get
a phone call from some friends in a pub in Piccadilly Circus and
decide to alter my plans and go for a swift half. If, back in the
day, I'd bought an Ealing to Hammersmith ticket, I'm screwed, I have
to get off at Hammersmith and buy a new one. Now I'm using PAYG, I
just change onto the Piccadilly and go on my merry way. That's a
change that's made my life just that little bit less regulated by
someone else.

In your real world, maybe. But in _my_ real world, I'd have had to
already get a one-day travelcard to get to Ealing Broadway in the first
place, so I would just use that to go to Piccadilly Circus.

(And that's assuming I decided to drop whatever important things I was
going to Hammersmith to do in the first place just to go see those
friends instead. After all, I can see them any time. It's more likely
I'd make my appologies and arrange to meet them some other time when it
would be convenient for all of us.)

Tom Barry wrote:
solar penguin wrote:

Whenever it starts, it'll be weird to have PAYG finally becoming at
least vaguely useful, rather than just an awkward and inconvenient
replacement for Savers bus tickets like it is at present. But
somehow I
can't imagine it ever happening. I mean, what are the cahnces of
pepole
running and working in public transport ever doing something vaguely

useful for their customers...?



Meanwhile, in the real world, PAYG is extremely useful and has made
travelling by tube and bus much more pleasant*. Face it, if people
*didn't* find it useful and convenient we wouldn't be clamouring for
it
to be extended to National Rail, would we?

It's not particularly hard to pretend that people running public
transport do nothing useful when you ignore the useful things they do.

Tom

* Example: I'm travelling from Ealing Broadway to Hammersmith. I get
a
phone call from some friends in a pub in Piccadilly Circus and decide
to
alter my plans and go for a swift half. If, back in the day, I'd
bought
an Ealing to Hammersmith ticket, I'm screwed, I have to get off at
Hammersmith and buy a new one. Now I'm using PAYG, I just change onto

the Piccadilly and go on my merry way. That's a change that's made my

life just that little bit less regulated by someone else.

I couldn't agree more, though I think solarpenguin's point was that if
(like me and many others) your nearest tube station is 8 miles away
(despite only being in zone 4), you currently either have to commit to
starting your journey with a long bus journey (then stay within the
PAYG-enabled system), or assume that you might want to use a train at
some point that day and buy a paper travelcard. For large swathes of
south London, PAYG is currently nothing more than a glorified one day
bus pass.
--
Current nearest station: Pimlico