wrote

Also when from where is the last Thameslink train on the Moorgate Branch
due
to depart on 22 March?

Last would seem to be 1844 LUT - MOG due 1941 on 20 March, works out ECS.
Last passenger service out would seem to be 1906 MOG - BDM. No Saturday or
Sunday service.

Peter

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
...
wrote:

They might well put up platform protection for staff working on the
station - but I would imagine that the normal 5mph limit through the
station will apply. Allowing trains to pass through faster would cause
chaos with the timetables, not som much on the central section where all
trains are doing the same but on the branches where other services
interface.

I did not think that there was much interface with service on other
branches, really. Can you give some examples, out of curiosity?

On Mar 14, 1:42*pm, wrote:
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message

...

wrote:

They might well put up platform protection for staff working on the
station - but I would imagine that the normal 5mph limit through the
station will apply. Allowing trains to pass through faster would cause
chaos with the timetables, not som much on the central section where all
trains are doing the same but on the branches where other services
interface.

I did not think that there was much interface with service on other
branches, really. Can you give some examples, out of curiosity?

Hammersmith and City from Aldgate East, Piccadilly Line at Acton Town
- Ealing Common (and from Hammersmith occasionally), North London Line
Gunnersbury - Richmond, ECS South West Trains Wimbledon - Putney. I
think that the killer spot would be Aldgate East, arriving early there
would cause the most problems.

wrote in message
...

:Hammersmith and City from Aldgate East, Piccadilly Line at Acton Town
- Ealing Common (and from Hammersmith occasionally), North London Line
Gunnersbury - Richmond, ECS South West Trains Wimbledon - Putney. I
think that the killer spot would be Aldgate East, arriving early there
would cause the most problems.

So, it would be just too much work and upset for a situation that is going
to be temporary, regardless of the extended length of time it will be out of
service?

On Mar 14, 2:22*pm, wrote:
wrote in message

...

:Hammersmith and City from Aldgate East, Piccadilly Line at Acton Town
- Ealing Common (and from Hammersmith occasionally), North London Line
Gunnersbury - Richmond, ECS South West Trains Wimbledon - Putney. I
think that the killer spot would be Aldgate East, arriving early there
would cause the most problems.

So, it would be just too much work and upset for a situation that is going
to be temporary, regardless of the extended length of time it will be out of
service?

I'd say so, trains are unlikely to be able to run past at speed for
all of the closure period, as there will be work on the platforms
towards the end of the rebuild. Of course, there will still be some
extra time, as most of the station stop time is the allowance for
doors opening, passengers getting on/off and doors closing. As
Blackfriars is only 600m from Mansion House and 760m from Temple
(according to Quail), line speeds will not be very high in the area.

On Mar 14, 2:07*pm, wrote:
On Mar 14, 1:42*pm, wrote:

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message

...

wrote:

They might well put up platform protection for staff working on the
station - but I would imagine that the normal 5mph limit through the
station will apply. Allowing trains to pass through faster would cause
chaos with the timetables, not som much on the central section where all
trains are doing the same but on the branches where other services
interface.

I did not think that there was much interface with service on other
branches, really. Can you give some examples, out of curiosity?

Hammersmith and City from Aldgate East, Piccadilly Line at Acton Town
- Ealing Common (and from Hammersmith occasionally), North London Line
Gunnersbury - Richmond, ECS South West Trains Wimbledon - Putney. I
think that the killer spot would be Aldgate East, arriving early there
would cause the most problems.

I find it hard to believe that the timing of the service is all that
precise in practice. My impression is that they always wait around
anyway, at Aldgate East, Earls Court and just about anywhere.

More likely, it would add a tiny bit of recovery potential to the line
if they could run through at greater speed.

On Mar 14, 2:39*pm, MIG wrote:
On Mar 14, 2:07*pm, wrote:





On Mar 14, 1:42*pm, wrote:

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message

...

wrote:

They might well put up platform protection for staff working on the
station - but I would imagine that the normal 5mph limit through the
station will apply. Allowing trains to pass through faster would cause
chaos with the timetables, not som much on the central section where all
trains are doing the same but on the branches where other services
interface.

I did not think that there was much interface with service on other
branches, really. Can you give some examples, out of curiosity?

Hammersmith and City from Aldgate East, Piccadilly Line at Acton Town
- Ealing Common (and from Hammersmith occasionally), North London Line
Gunnersbury - Richmond, ECS South West Trains Wimbledon - Putney. I
think that the killer spot would be Aldgate East, arriving early there
would cause the most problems.

I find it hard to believe that the timing of the service is all that
precise in practice. *My impression is that they always wait around
anyway, at Aldgate East, Earls Court and just about anywhere.


Underground working times are in half minute blocks and yes, the
timing are that precise for the working timetables. Of course,
individual trains won't all run exactly to the timings, but they
should be close. Trains hang about at the junctions partly because of
the slack in the timetables, allowing trains to run an extra minute
faster, means that this minute has to be lost before the junction or
the interacting service has to be retimed as well. The District line
is particularly hard to timetable, due to the interactions on the
branches and the knock on effects on the H&C and Met lines.

More likely, it would add a tiny bit of recovery potential to the line
if they could run through at greater speed.

But is it worth the cost of the alterations to the signalling? You get
more recovery time from not actually stopping and opening / closing
the doors than you can from increasing speed through the station from
the approach control speed to, say, 30 mph.

In message ,
writes
Since Blackfriars is going to be closed for a considerable length of
time, almost three years, will LUL put up partitions at the platform
edges and allow trains to run through there at speed? What would it
take to reset the start signals to normal waysides, since now they are
in essence draw ups.

I would very much doubt it.

The speed through the platforms is based on the overlaps (safe space if
you like) of the station starters. It is assumed that a train will be
normally running from a standing start and thus the overlap is very much
reduced. The rule is (with a few exceptions) that you do 5mph at the
station starter to take account of these overlaps.

I can't see the signalling being totally redesigned for a couple of
year's closure.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

In message , at 13:38:10 on
Sat, 14 Mar 2009, Peter Masson remarked:
Also when from where is the last Thameslink train on the Moorgate Branch
due
to depart on 22 March?

Last would seem to be 1844 LUT - MOG due 1941 on 20 March, works out ECS.
Last passenger service out would seem to be 1906 MOG - BDM.

So if you changed at Farringdon you could catch the last train out and
the last train in, even if in the reverse order to what one might have
expected?
--
Roland Perry

wrote in message
...
"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

I've read that a 'steel framed box' is being built to allow building work
to proceed 24/7 around the running railway. No idea about the signalling,
although you would have to assume that the timescales would allow some
changes to be worthwhile.

What would it take to reset a starter signal to a standard wayside

Has anyone any idea where the displaced passengers have ended up, the
advice seems to be to either walk to Mansion House or Temple,

Whichever is closer, I supppose.

More or less the same distance, so Mansion House for eastbound, Temple for
westbound (District/Circle in both cases, of course).

But isn't Mansion House closed at weekends? And if so, wouldn't it be a good
idea to open it during the Blackfriars closure?

With Cannon Street also closed at weekends, it will be fast from Temple to
Monument :-)

or stay on train until City Thameslink.

For anyone originally intending to change to the Underground at Blackfriars,
that is just duff advice.

Regards

Jonathan