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(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On Mar 23, 1:58*pm, TimB wrote:
On Mar 23, 8:42 pm, "tim....." wrote: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to..._sectors/trans... Aha. So they're saying 'It is much cheaper to safeguard the land at the start' [for quadrupling] rather than actually planning to build four tracks from the start. Fair enough. And the plan is to connect with Heathrow Express at Old Oak rather than running the HSL via Heathrow - also sensible, I think. This looks excellent. I will believe when constructions starts! Although, I am not convinced that a Central London (Well Camden) terminal is impossible. Accessing Euston with its spare capacity would not be that difficult. |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
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(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
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(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On 24 Mar, 09:27, "Lüko Willms" wrote:
*Do all Londoners live within the immediate vicinity of Euston Station or St. Pancras? No. But I'd venture that the majority of travel involving London is people going *into* it from outside to work, not *out* of it for leisure. So where they live is less relevant than ensuring that it is easy to get to/from workplaces in central London. Neil |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
Neil Williams wrote:
On 24 Mar, 09:27, "Lüko Willms" wrote: Do all Londoners live within the immediate vicinity of Euston Station or St. Pancras? No. But I'd venture that the majority of travel involving London is people going *into* it from outside to work, not *out* of it for leisure. So where they live is less relevant than ensuring that it is easy to get to/from workplaces in central London. Neil Arguably a station west of London but on Crossrail is easier to get to, say, Docklands from than somewhere like Euston or St. Pancras. Proposed Crossrail journey times are really rather fast compared to anything you're used to on conventional tube or rail. Taking Acton Main Line, which is a bit west of OOC: Tottenham Court Road - 11m Farringdon - 14m Liverpool St. - 16m Canary Wharf - 23m Stratford - 27m Knock a minute or so off for the shorter distance and it isn't far off the time from existing London terminals, particularly given walking times to the Circle/Met Line from say St. Pancras or Euston platforms. Tom |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
Am Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:06:21 UTC, schrieb Neil Williams
auf uk.railway : On 24 Mar, 09:27, "Lüko Willms" wrote: *Do all Londoners live within the immediate vicinity of Euston Station or St. Pancras? No. But I'd venture that the majority of travel involving London is people going *into* it from outside to work, not *out* of it for leisure. So where they live is less relevant than ensuring that it is easy to get to/from workplaces in central London. Yeah, but that is quite irrelevant when they want to travel to another city or another part of the country. Cheers, L.W. -- ----------------------------------------------------- |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On 24 Mar, 16:16, "Lüko Willms" wrote:
* Yeah, but that is quite irrelevant when they want to travel to another city or another part of the country. You are missing the point spectacularly. Travel *into* London for business is the most important (and largest) market served by rail in London. The UK is not like Germany with no particular centre. People are far more likely to need to go *to* Central London than *from* the suburbs, even given the population there. Neil |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On Mar 24, 5:42*am, Michael Bell wrote:
In message ups.com * * * * * TimB wrote: On Mar 23, 11:02 pm, Michael Bell wrote: In message ups.com * * * * * wrote: On Mar 23, 1:58 pm, TimB wrote: On Mar 23, 8:42 pm, "tim....." wrote: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to..._sectors/trans... Aha. So they're saying 'It is much cheaper to safeguard the land at the start' [for quadrupling] rather than actually planning to build four tracks from the start. Fair enough. And the plan is to connect with Heathrow Express at Old Oak rather than running the HSL via Heathrow - also sensible, I think. This looks excellent. *I will believe when constructions starts! Although, I am not convinced that a Central London (Well Camden) terminal is impossible. *Accessing Euston with its spare capacity would not be that difficult. So we are going to have these massive double-deck trains coming in every 4 minutes, and onward transport, chiefly the tube, is not going to be overwhelmed? It can only just cope now! They're clearly pinning their hopes on Crossrail. Although it's also near Willesden Jn for NLR and WLR, plus Central line. * Tim And despite the "desperate need for Crossrail" that was given reason for building it, Crossrail will have plenty of capacity to take passengers from these BIG trains? Double-deck. Every 4 minutes. I Have my doubts. That's why I like Ove Arup's suggestion of extending the CTRL from a new St. Pancras (North), maybe via Paddington, Heathrow and then north. The trains would start at Ebbsfleet (does that count as a "London" station, then stop at Stratford...etc IMHO Ove Arup had it right. The route coming in from Stratford should branch before St Pancras and continue to Willesden. I have my doubts about Heathrow. It would be better to swing north towards Northolt. The link between HS1 and HS2 should be used for Paris/Brussels to Birmingham/Manchester trains. IMHO Euston is probably the best London Terminus for London to Birmingham/Manchester and the North train. This is despite the fact that Euston is a cold Polsonite 1960s structure. |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On Mar 24, 10:07*am, Michael Bell wrote:
In message * * * * * Charles Ellson wrote: On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:41:30 GMT, Michael Bell wrote: In message ups.com * * * * *Neil *Williams wrote: On 24 Mar, 09:27, "Lüko Willms" wrote: *Do all Londoners live within the immediate vicinity of Euston Station or St. Pancras? No. *But I'd venture that the majority of travel involving London is people going *into* it from outside to work, not *out* of it for leisure. *So where they live is less relevant than ensuring that it is easy to get to/from workplaces in central London. Neil Don't forget the important shopping and theatre traffic. Important to whom ? Most people don't get the urge to visit Egyptian grocers' shops and are adequately served by the shop(s) and/or supermarket down the road. Traffic to the west end for shopping and to the theatres are certainly important traffic streams for the owners of those businesses. Largely off-peak, so easier to cope with, but these people also have a voice and will want their interests to protected. The was a time when there was a mini rush hour at about 10:30 in the evening when the theater shows ended. I don't know if that is still the case. |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On 24 Mar, 17:36, wrote:
IMHO Euston is probably the best London Terminus for London to Birmingham/Manchester and the North train. *This is despite the fact that Euston is a cold Polsonite 1960s structure. Cold in an emotional sense, maybe. But not in a physical sense - while people are freezing their proverbials off in nice-looking traditional stations, the Euston concourse is nice and warm, and equally nice and cool on a hot day. It has its faults, but it is probably my favourite London terminus. Neil |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On 24 Mar, 17:36, wrote:
IMHO Euston is probably the best London Terminus for London to Birmingham/Manchester and the North train. *This is despite the fact that Euston is a cold Polsonite 1960s structure. Are you sure you don't mean "Poulsonite"? Anyway, I don't think it's cold at all. It's a lovely airy space, and viewed from the balcony is really quite exhilarating. Ian |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On Mar 24, 10:58*am, Neil Williams wrote:
On 24 Mar, 17:36, wrote: IMHO Euston is probably the best London Terminus for London to Birmingham/Manchester and the North train. *This is despite the fact that Euston is a cold Polsonite 1960s structure. Cold in an emotional sense, maybe. *But not in a physical sense - while people are freezing their proverbials off in nice-looking traditional stations, the Euston concourse is nice and warm, and equally nice and cool on a hot day. With that I cannot disagree. It has its faults, but it is probably my favourite London terminus. So often Neil, I agree with your comments. On this one we differ. Euston is my least favorite. Euston Station is architecturally unappealing (to me). It is way back from Euston Road. When one has reached the building it is still a long way to the platforms and their awful ramps. |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On Mar 24, 11:01*am, The Real Doctor
wrote: On 24 Mar, 17:36, wrote: IMHO Euston is probably the best London Terminus for London to Birmingham/Manchester and the North train. *This is despite the fact that Euston is a cold Polsonite 1960s structure. Are you sure you don't mean "Poulsonite"? No, I mean it commons from the "lowest common denominator, concrete communism" school beloved by Scotland's benefactor, and uk.railway village idiot, Polson. Anyway, I don't think it's cold at all. It's a lovely airy space, and viewed from the balcony is really quite exhilarating. Each to their own doc. For the reasons listed elsewhere in this thread, I do not like it. "It ain't got soul". |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
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(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On 24 Mar, 18:07, wrote:
So often Neil, I agree with your comments. *On this one we differ. Euston is my least favorite. Euston Station is architecturally unappealing (to me). *It is way back from Euston Road. *When one has reached the building it is still a long way to the platforms and their awful ramps. The front is nothing special and the platforms are a bit dire, but the circulating area is really nice. For a start - and thanks to those ramps - it's the only non-draughty station in London. Ian |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On Mar 24, 11:01 am, The Real Doctor
wrote: On 24 Mar, 17:36, wrote: IMHO Euston is probably the best London Terminus for London to Birmingham/Manchester and the North train. This is despite the fact that Euston is a cold Polsonite 1960s structure. Are you sure you don't mean "Poulsonite"? No, I mean it comes from the "lowest common denominator, concrete communism" school beloved by Scotland's benefactor, and uk.railway village idiot, Polson. Anyway, I don't think it's cold at all. It's a lovely airy space, and viewed from the balcony is really quite exhilarating. Each to their own doc. For the reasons listed elsewhere in this thread, I do not like it. "It ain't got soul". |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
In message , at 18:30:24 on Tue,
24 Mar 2009, Paul Terry remarked: The was a time when there was a mini rush hour at about 10:30 in the evening when the theater shows ended. I don't know if that is still the case. It is. Between 10pm and 11pm it is often impossible to board a westbound Piccadilly train at Leicester Square because of the crowds. I often let several go before finding one that I can just about get shoe-horned into - even then it's often standing room only until Hammersmith. but you won't find that 10pm rush hour penetrating as far as Intercity services. Most major London termini are deserted from 8pm onwards. -- Roland Perry |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
Am Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:46:12 UTC, schrieb Neil Williams
auf uk.railway : Travel *into* London for business is the most important (and largest) market served by rail in London. Sure, but even then, this is more than just Euston Road from Euston Station to King's Cross, isn't it? The UK is not like Germany with no particular centre. People are far more likely to need to go *to* Central London than *from* the suburbs, even given the population there. OK, I got that point. But does London have one particular center like one place or street crossing where everything happens and where everybody wants or has to go? Don't people who arrive at Euston Road from somewhere north do not have to use "the creakingly slow LUL/LOROL", buses, or taxis? Cheers, L.W. -- ----------------------------------------------------- |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:00:56 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote: but you won't find that 10pm rush hour penetrating as far as Intercity services. Most major London termini are deserted from 8pm onwards. There seems to be a mini-rush on LM around 2200, though I always assumed this to be due to people going for a drink or 3 after work. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:00:53 +0100, "L=?ISO-8859-1?B?/A==?=ko Willms"
wrote: Sure, but even then, this is more than just Euston Road from Euston Station to King's Cross, isn't it? Yes, but it's Central London, which is pretty much an area bounded by the Circle Line plus a bit, give or take Canary Wharf. OK, I got that point. But does London have one particular center like one place or street crossing where everything happens and where everybody wants or has to go? Don't people who arrive at Euston Road from somewhere north do not have to use "the creakingly slow LUL/LOROL", buses, or taxis? Yes, but (Crossrail aside, which is a good point if the terminus was in the west) they will have to use it for longer, which will offset some of the gains. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On Mar 24, 10:00 pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:30:24 on Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Paul Terry remarked: The was a time when there was a mini rush hour at about 10:30 in the evening when the theater shows ended. I don't know if that is still the case. It is. Between 10pm and 11pm it is often impossible to board a westbound Piccadilly train at Leicester Square because of the crowds. I often let several go before finding one that I can just about get shoe-horned into - even then it's often standing room only until Hammersmith. but you won't find that 10pm rush hour penetrating as far as Intercity services. Most major London termini are deserted from 8pm onwards. -- Roland Perry Kings Cross is pretty busy - the 2315 to Cambridge (and Ely/Kings Lynn) loads well, and the last Leeds train isn't till 2330. St Pancras probably is asleep by 2000, like the backwaters it serves....... |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On 24 Mar, 18:01, The Real Doctor wrote:
Anyway, I don't think it's cold at all. It's a lovely airy space, and viewed from the balcony is really quite exhilarating. Never been on there. I keep meaning, when delayed, to have a meal in the pub that's up there, but always end up not doing in the end. But I really do like Euston. Just about its only major fault (now the obstructive retail units have been removed) is the "rush" for trains when they're called - and I think that could be easily resolved by calling them far earlier (say as soon as the train has cleared of passengers after arrival) and just locking the passenger doors while cleaning is in progress. Neil |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On 24 Mar, 22:00, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 18:30:24 on Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Paul Terry remarked: The was a time when there was a mini rush hour at about 10:30 in the evening when the theater shows ended. *I don't know if that is still the case. It is. Between 10pm and 11pm it is often impossible to board a westbound Piccadilly train at Leicester Square because of the crowds. I often let several go before finding one that I can just about get shoe-horned into - even then it's often standing room only until Hammersmith. but you won't find that 10pm rush hour penetrating as far as Intercity services. Most major London termini are deserted from 8pm onwards. No they're not - e.g. King's Cross, Liverpool Street, London Bridge, Charing Cross, Waterloo, Victoria are all far from deserted after 8pm. |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
In message
, at 03:29:01 on Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Mizter T remarked: but you won't find that 10pm rush hour penetrating as far as Intercity services. Most major London termini are deserted from 8pm onwards. No they're not - e.g. King's Cross, Liverpool Street, London Bridge, Charing Cross, Waterloo, Victoria are all far from deserted after 8pm. Different definitions of "deserted" perhaps. -- Roland Perry |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On 25 Mar, 13:58, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 03:29:01 on Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Mizter T remarked: but you won't find that 10pm rush hour penetrating as far as Intercity services. Most major London termini are deserted from 8pm onwards. No they're not - e.g. King's Cross, Liverpool Street, London Bridge, Charing Cross, Waterloo, Victoria are all far from deserted after 8pm. Different definitions of "deserted" perhaps. Perhaps! |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:30:11 -0700 (PDT), TimB
wrote: Kings Cross is pretty busy - the 2315 to Cambridge (and Ely/Kings Lynn) loads well, and the last Leeds train isn't till 2330. St Pancras probably is asleep by 2000, like the backwaters it serves....... Euston is busy enough as well, but it's almost all local passengers - the late evening Wolves and Manc trains carry the majority of their passengers to MKC. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On Mar 24, 11:38*pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote: Yes, but (Crossrail aside, which is a good point if the terminus was in the west) they will have to use it for longer, which will offset some of the gains. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. I think the headline figure of 30 minutes is a little bit misleading in a number of ways anyway. Consider that Old Oak Common to Solihull is almost exactly 100 miles by the Chiltern route. Heathrow to Birmingham International station is 104 miles by the obvious motorway route. About 5 miles of that is getting from the M25 to terminals 123 at Heathrow. Willesden Junction to Birmingham International is 99 miles by the WCML. I think it’s fair to assume that it’s at least 98 miles from a station in the Old Oak Common area to a motorway parkway station southeast of Birmingham. Assume that the train averages 210 mph for the entire journey. That's 28 minutes right there. That's before you allow time for the train starting at OOC or stopping at the airport parkway. I'll leave it to others to comment on whether 210 mph average is believeable, but I suspect that it's overly optimistic since it's more than the current operational _maximum_ speed of LGV Est. At the Birmingham end, such a parkway station is well located for those arriving by car, but I’m less convinced about its suitability for those continuing by public transport, or for those who actually want to access central Birmingham. Virgin’s trains take an addition 12 minutes to reach New Street from Birmingham international, and Chiltern’s are timed at 12 minutes from Solihull to Moor Street. Admittedly in the latter case, the time includes the station dwell time Solihull. If, as is suggested, you intend to use European style double deck stock, you either need to build a new line into central Birmingham, or you need to improve the existing lines, or passengers will have to change trains. Allowing for some dwell time at the parkway station, it’s probably 45 minutes to central Birmingham from OOC. It’s also worth pointing out that the current Virgin service is 1:10 to Birmingham International. I suspect [without much real evidence] that with a little more tweaking, 140mph running, and non-stop service, Virgin could get the Euston-Birmingham International service below an hour. At the London end, much depends on whether (as the article seems to suggest) the OOC station is a terminus, or there is onward service to central London. In the latter case, Javelin timings from Stratford (7 minutes) plus time for a station stop suggest that journeys into central London would require at least another 10 minutes. That gives a center to center time around 55 minutes. If it’s a terminus, you are stuck with onward journeys via Crossrail or the WLL. The WLL offers infrequent services to not much of anywhere. So it’s fair to say that unless you are going somewhere well served by Crossrail, or you happen to be trying to get to the Old Oak Common area your journey from OOC to your destination is going to be longer than it is today from Euston. Moreover, Euston to Tottenham Court Road is likely to have a journey time similar to that from OOC to TCR on Crossrail, so service to the docklands isn’t going to be any better. Notable destinations that are likely to see significant increases in London local journey times are Victoria, Westminster, Euston and Kings Cross. |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
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(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On 25 Mar, 20:22, "Lüko Willms" wrote: (snip) * How about _two_ HSLs from London to "the North", -- one leaving central London to the West, stopping at or near Heathrow airport, and then speeding up North to Birmingham (maybe via Oxford); -- the other one leaving central London to the East, stopping at Stratfort Int'l, then turning North with a station at Stanstead airport, Cambridge, and then Leeds. * The two lines would be linked together with a central station underneath Euston Road between Euston Station and King's Cross... The Eastern branch would have a direct link coming from Ebbsfleet Int'l to the North. Excellent. Not quite sure what happens to the evicted Circle/Met line, water and gas mains and sewer that currently reside underneath Euston Road. I'm pretty sure the British Library is fairly firmly installed at their new-ish location too. |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
Neil Williams wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:06:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Although, I am not convinced that a Central London (Well Camden) terminal is impossible. Accessing Euston with its spare capacity would not be that difficult. Not having a terminus in Central London seems to be madness, as you'd lose a lot of time getting to/from the terminus by creakingly slow LUL/LOROL. Euston would seem to be a good idea, given that it (unlike the other termini) has plenty of spare platform capacity. In this BBC piece today about Adonis' latest speech: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7964727.stm "...A Times newspaper [article] has suggested there might be an interchange near Wormwood Scrubs in west London, where passengers would switch onto the Crossrail line - also scheduled for construction - into London. "The rail industry doesn't think much of that idea," commented the BBC's Tom Symonds. "Its got to go into Euston," he quoted a senior engineer at the conference as saying. Paul |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
I think I'd rather have the most reliable train service in the world
than the fastest... -- Bruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney UK http://claremont.islandblogging.co.uk |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
Am Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:48:43 UTC, schrieb Mizter T
auf uk.railway : * The two lines would be linked together with a central station underneath Euston Road between Euston Station and King's Cross... The Eastern branch would have a direct link coming from Ebbsfleet Int'l to the North. Excellent. Not quite sure what happens to the evicted Circle/Met line, water and gas mains and sewer that currently reside underneath Euston Road. I'm pretty sure the British Library is fairly firmly installed at their new-ish location too. To avoid the catastrophy of the Cologne Historical Archive which fell into the underground building site for a underground line... I think the British Library is a further back from the road, though. Cheers, L.W. -- ----------------------------------------------------- |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:31:16 +0100, "Lüko Willms"
wrote: Am Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:48:43 UTC, schrieb Mizter T auf uk.railway : * The two lines would be linked together with a central station underneath Euston Road between Euston Station and King's Cross... The Eastern branch would have a direct link coming from Ebbsfleet Int'l to the North. Excellent. Not quite sure what happens to the evicted Circle/Met line, water and gas mains and sewer that currently reside underneath Euston Road. I'm pretty sure the British Library is fairly firmly installed at their new-ish location too. To avoid the catastrophy of the Cologne Historical Archive which fell into the underground building site for a underground line... I think the British Library is a further back from the road, though. It is also a much more recent building and IIRC built to be somewhat more "disaster-proof". |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
Am Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:16:30 UTC, schrieb Charles Ellson
auf uk.railway : To avoid the catastrophy of the Cologne Historical Archive which fell into the underground building site for a underground line... I think the British Library is a further back from the road, though. It is also a much more recent building and IIRC built to be somewhat more "disaster-proof". This building in Cologne had no problems until the underground line was built right next to it. The sucked the ground away from underneath the building with the ground water. The transit company had accepted the offer from a construction company for a cheaper method and thus not built a HDI sole at the bottom of the pit. But this is off-topic in this thread... Cheers, L.W. -- ----------------------------------------------------- |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:31:16 +0100, "Lüko Willms" wrote: To avoid the catastrophy of the Cologne Historical Archive which fell into the underground building site for a underground line... I think the British Library is a further back from the road, though. It is also a much more recent building and IIRC built to be somewhat more "disaster-proof". If they did exactly what was done at Cologne in front of the British Library, that building would also have fallen into the hole. |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
Am Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:44:56 UTC, schrieb Tony Polson
auf uk.railway : I think the British Library is a further back from the road, though. It is also a much more recent building and IIRC built to be somewhat more "disaster-proof". If they did exactly what was done at Cologne in front of the British Library, that building would also have fallen into the hole. I don't think so since I think that the conditions underground are quite different. Cheers, L.W. -- ----------------------------------------------------- |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
On 25/03/09 20:22, Lüko Willms wrote:
-- the other one leaving central London to the East, stopping at Stratfort Int'l, then turning North with a station at Stanstead airport, Cambridge, and then Leeds. You've missed out both the East Midlands and South Yorkshire. Roger |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
"Lüko Willms" wrote:
Am Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:44:56 UTC, schrieb Tony Polson auf uk.railway : I think the British Library is a further back from the road, though. It is also a much more recent building and IIRC built to be somewhat more "disaster-proof". If they did exactly what was done at Cologne in front of the British Library, that building would also have fallen into the hole. I don't think so since I think that the conditions underground are quite different. Perhaps you don't exactly understand the meaning of the word "exactly". |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the world within 12 years
Am Fri, 27 Mar 2009 00:09:25 UTC, schrieb Tony Polson
auf uk.railway : Perhaps you don't exactly understand the meaning of the word "exactly". My reading filter always tries to make sense of what I read. Well, mostly. Cheers, L.W. -- ----------------------------------------------------- |
(Times): Britain to have fastest train service in the worldwithin 12 years
Roger Lynn wrote:
On 25/03/09 20:22, Lüko Willms wrote: -- the other one leaving central London to the East, stopping at Stratfort Int'l, then turning North with a station at Stanstead airport, Cambridge, and then Leeds. You've missed out both the East Midlands and South Yorkshire. Roger How about Grantham? That would annoy the old bat. -- Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management decisions. -From “Rollerball” |
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