On 2009/04/02 at about 1600, I arrived at Aldgate at platform 4 on an
anti-clockwise Circle line train. I did not hear the driver's message.
There were Metropolitan trains on platforms 2 (which left first) and 3.
I switched to the train on platform 3 (3/4 are 2 sides of an island
platform) when it got green. Although I did not time events, the Journey
Planner suggests a Metropolitan service interval of about 10 minutes.

Since then, I have been thinking about the teacup proposals, whose main
rationale seems to be that there is nowhere to store Circle line trains.
Aldgate seems a good candidate in both directions. Gloucester Road
clockwise and the line between High Street Kensington and Gloucester
Road anti-clockwise seem OK. (Does the latter allow passing Wimbledons?)
Hence my question above.
--
Walter Briscoe

Walter Briscoe wrote:

Since then, I have been thinking about the teacup proposals, whose main
rationale seems to be that there is nowhere to store Circle line trains.
Aldgate seems a good candidate in both directions. Gloucester Road
clockwise and the line between High Street Kensington and Gloucester Road
anti-clockwise seem OK. (Does the latter allow passing Wimbledons?)
Hence my question above.

It's more than just storing trains - the Circle Line basically involves
trains running continuously for c20 hours, with no turn arounds and no
opportunity to recover time from delays. The latter has a knock-on effect on
the other three lines that share the tracks. (It's because of this that I
doubt there will ever be an "outer circle" *service* on London Overground.)
By introducing a couple of terminuses the individual train journeys shrink
to a far more managable length, they all turn around and it will be possible
to terminate a train early and reverse it in order to recover some of the
lost time table.

It seems to also offer an increased frequency on the Hammersmith branch as
well as on the Circle-only sections of track - I find myself avoiding
relying on Aldgate-Tower Hill services as much as possible (instead taking
wide detours to get the District elsewhere) because they have a reputation
as being just too unreliable.

On 7 Apr, 06:59, Walter Briscoe wrote:
Since then, I have been thinking about the teacup proposals, whose main
rationale seems to be that there is nowhere to store Circle line trains.
Aldgate seems a good candidate in both directions. Gloucester Road
clockwise and the line between High Street Kensington and Gloucester
Road anti-clockwise seem OK.

The whole reason the Circle Line exists is to provide a fast
convenient service for passengers passing through exactly those
locations. If you timetable 5 minutes plus of recovery time (which is
what the teacup plan will allow at Edgware Road), you might as well
not bother running it.

(on a related topic, I've decided they should install a drawbridge at
the east end of Edgware Road so that there's always level access to
the next onward train. Trains rarely leave the centre tracks in that
direction)

U

Mr Thant wrote:
On 7 Apr, 06:59, Walter Briscoe wrote:
Since then, I have been thinking about the teacup proposals, whose
main rationale seems to be that there is nowhere to store Circle
line trains. Aldgate seems a good candidate in both directions.
Gloucester Road clockwise and the line between High Street
Kensington and Gloucester Road anti-clockwise seem OK.

The whole reason the Circle Line exists is to provide a fast
convenient service for passengers passing through exactly those
locations. If you timetable 5 minutes plus of recovery time (which is
what the teacup plan will allow at Edgware Road), you might as well
not bother running it.

(on a related topic, I've decided they should install a drawbridge at
the east end of Edgware Road so that there's always level access to
the next onward train. Trains rarely leave the centre tracks in that
direction)

Would one of these fit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1NwXQaVAKA

John Rowland wrote:
Mr Thant wrote:
On 7 Apr, 06:59, Walter Briscoe wrote:
Since then, I have been thinking about the teacup proposals, whose
main rationale seems to be that there is nowhere to store Circle
line trains. Aldgate seems a good candidate in both directions.
Gloucester Road clockwise and the line between High Street
Kensington and Gloucester Road anti-clockwise seem OK.

The whole reason the Circle Line exists is to provide a fast
convenient service for passengers passing through exactly those
locations. If you timetable 5 minutes plus of recovery time (which is
what the teacup plan will allow at Edgware Road), you might as well
not bother running it.

(on a related topic, I've decided they should install a drawbridge at
the east end of Edgware Road so that there's always level access to
the next onward train. Trains rarely leave the centre tracks in that
direction)

Would one of these fit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1NwXQaVAKA

More to the point, would one of these fit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09mndmOpmYc&NR=1

On 7 Apr, 11:36, "John Rowland"
wrote:
Would one of these fit?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1NwXQaVAKA

That'd be perfect. And given said bridge is currently in storage (or
was last time I checked) due to maintenance expenses/vandalism/god
knows what, they could buy that exact one for cheap.

U

On Apr 7, 12:18*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 7 Apr, 11:36, "John Rowland"

wrote:
Would one of these fit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1NwXQaVAKA

That'd be perfect. And given said bridge is currently in storage (or
was last time I checked) due to maintenance expenses/vandalism/god
knows what, they could buy that exact one for cheap.


The ever reliable wikipedia entry says "It was removed in Summer 2008
for maintenance and is due back in the next few weeks" - no idea if
that's actually the case!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rolling_Bridge

I regret never having seen it in action - it lifted every Friday at
noon, so hopefully it will do so again (and I'll definitely go and see
it this time!).

On 7 Apr, 10:49, Mr Thant
wrote:
The whole reason the Circle Line exists is to provide a fast
convenient service for passengers passing through exactly those
locations. If you timetable 5 minutes plus of recovery time (which is
what the teacup plan will allow at Edgware Road), you might as well
not bother running it.

When thinking about this exact issue, the solution I settled on was
four termini, N/S/E/W for the Circle, with overlapping services
running between the opposite termini.
E.g.
* Kings X - Blackfriars via Aldgate
* Aldgate - Notting Hill Gate via Blackfriars
* Kings X - Blackfriars via Notting Hill Gate
* Aldgate - Notting Hill Gate via Kings X

....that gives you a direct service from wherever you are to wherever
you want to go, with plenty of opportunities for recovery. The
stations needn't be those given, they're just for illustration of the
concept.

Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 7, 12:18 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 7 Apr, 11:36, "John Rowland"

wrote:
Would one of these fit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1NwXQaVAKA

That'd be perfect. And given said bridge is currently in storage (or
was last time I checked) due to maintenance expenses/vandalism/god
knows what, they could buy that exact one for cheap.


The ever reliable wikipedia entry says "It was removed in Summer 2008
for maintenance and is due back in the next few weeks" - no idea if
that's actually the case!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rolling_Bridge

I regret never having seen it in action - it lifted every Friday at
noon, so hopefully it will do so again (and I'll definitely go and see
it this time!).

How about a pair of these, matching LH and RH versions must be available,
and an over running train could just knock it out of the way...

http://ronstruttsrailwaypics.fotopic.net/p44237041.html

Paul S

On Apr 7, 1:37*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

[snip]

How about a pair of these, matching LH and RH versions must be available,
and an over running train could just knock it out of the way...

http://ronstruttsrailwaypics.fotopic.net/p44237041.html


Ah, the Brockenhurst traverser - shades of the old arrangement at
White City with the movable platform that could be swivelled out of
the way of the depot access track.

For anyone who's interested, 'Yokel' wrote about the Brockenhurst
traverser in this 2004 post:
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.ra...a29f63c0764fae

And it came up again very recently on uk.r - this poster says it's
still in daily use:
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.ra...95434bd797bce5

So, we've solved the Edgware Road teacup problem - I'm sure Boris will
just bat away any H&S concerns - so what next?