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No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
What is it that they are actually doing? It seems almost to be every
weekend. |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
wrote in message ... What is it that they are actually doing? It seems almost to be every weekend. Rebuilding the 'sub surface railway' track and formation to mainline standards throughout, so that the S stock will ride properly when delivered. Paul S |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
"Paul Scott" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... What is it that they are actually doing? It seems almost to be every weekend. Rebuilding the 'sub surface railway' track and formation to mainline standards throughout, so that the S stock will ride properly when delivered. Paul S So does that mean it will not be so bumpy? |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
On Apr 8, 11:50*am, wrote: "Paul Scott" wrote: wrote: What is it that they are actually doing? It seems almost to be every weekend. Rebuilding the 'sub surface railway' track and formation to mainline standards throughout, so that the S stock will ride properly when delivered. So does that mean it will not be so bumpy? It should, yes. |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
Paul Scott wrote:
Rebuilding the 'sub surface railway' track and formation to mainline standards throughout, so that the S stock will ride properly when delivered. Mainline track standards are much lower than LUL track standards: when you have a short track and lots of tiny trains, you make the track perfect and save money and space by having crap suspension on your trains, whereas NR have lots of track and few trains so they build their track out of discarded goalposts and buy proper suspension for the trains. Hence the "Buckaroo Line" where LUL trains run on NR track. But it's a bit worrying if the new trains need better track than the old ones did. |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
"John Rowland" wrote in message
... Paul Scott wrote: Rebuilding the 'sub surface railway' track and formation to mainline standards throughout, so that the S stock will ride properly when delivered. Mainline track standards are much lower than LUL track standards: when you have a short track and lots of tiny trains, you make the track perfect and save money and space by having crap suspension on your trains, whereas NR have lots of track and few trains so they build their track out of discarded goalposts and buy proper suspension for the trains. Hence the "Buckaroo Line" where LUL trains run on NR track. But it's a bit worrying if the new trains need better track than the old ones did. Is it welded rail that they plan to lay down? That is, rails that do not have joints for several hundred metres. |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
wrote in message ... "John Rowland" wrote in message ... Paul Scott wrote: Rebuilding the 'sub surface railway' track and formation to mainline standards throughout, so that the S stock will ride properly when delivered. Mainline track standards are much lower than LUL track standards: when you have a short track and lots of tiny trains, you make the track perfect and save money and space by having crap suspension on your trains, whereas NR have lots of track and few trains so they build their track out of discarded goalposts and buy proper suspension for the trains. Hence the "Buckaroo Line" where LUL trains run on NR track. But it's a bit worrying if the new trains need better track than the old ones did. Is it welded rail that they plan to lay down? That is, rails that do not have joints for several hundred metres. Yes - as discussed here in the past, the District renewals towards Upminster appear to use identical rail and sleepers to recent NR track renewals - the same 'mainline' firms are involved albeit in a Metronet led consortium. Eventually the whole SSR is supposed to get the same treatment... Paul S |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
"Paul Scott" wrote in message
... Yes - as discussed here in the past, the District renewals towards Upminster appear to use identical rail and sleepers to recent NR track renewals - the same 'mainline' firms are involved albeit in a Metronet led consortium. Eventually the whole SSR is supposed to get the same treatment... What will the sleepers be made of? |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
wrote in message ... "Paul Scott" wrote in message ... Yes - as discussed here in the past, the District renewals towards Upminster appear to use identical rail and sleepers to recent NR track renewals - the same 'mainline' firms are involved albeit in a Metronet led consortium. Eventually the whole SSR is supposed to get the same treatment... What will the sleepers be made of? Concrete - obviously the fittings for the fourth rail are additional, but the same rail securing, with pandrol clips, as on the big railway... Paul S |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
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No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
"Paul Scott" wrote in message
... wrote in message ... "Paul Scott" wrote in message ... Yes - as discussed here in the past, the District renewals towards Upminster appear to use identical rail and sleepers to recent NR track renewals - the same 'mainline' firms are involved albeit in a Metronet led consortium. Eventually the whole SSR is supposed to get the same treatment... What will the sleepers be made of? Concrete - obviously the fittings for the fourth rail are additional, but the same rail securing, with pandrol clips, as on the big railway... I'm no concrete expert but, AIUI, water gets into concrete. This causes the sleeper to crack and disintegrate. Plastics also don't work out, I understand, because polymers can start to crack, which could negatively impact the roadbed. Are they also planning to upgrade signalling system on the Metropolitan line? |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
wrote on 08 April 2009 19:40:50 ...
"Paul Scott" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... "Paul Scott" wrote in message ... Yes - as discussed here in the past, the District renewals towards Upminster appear to use identical rail and sleepers to recent NR track renewals - the same 'mainline' firms are involved albeit in a Metronet led consortium. Eventually the whole SSR is supposed to get the same treatment... What will the sleepers be made of? Concrete - obviously the fittings for the fourth rail are additional, but the same rail securing, with pandrol clips, as on the big railway... I'm no concrete expert but, AIUI, water gets into concrete. This causes the sleeper to crack and disintegrate. Really? Perhaps you should inform railway companies throughout the world about that, given that concrete is by far the most common material for new sleepers. Don't you ever look at the track? -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
"Richard J." wrote in message
m... wrote on 08 April 2009 19:40:50 ... "Paul Scott" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... "Paul Scott" wrote in message ... Yes - as discussed here in the past, the District renewals towards Upminster appear to use identical rail and sleepers to recent NR track renewals - the same 'mainline' firms are involved albeit in a Metronet led consortium. Eventually the whole SSR is supposed to get the same treatment... What will the sleepers be made of? Concrete - obviously the fittings for the fourth rail are additional, but the same rail securing, with pandrol clips, as on the big railway... I'm no concrete expert but, AIUI, water gets into concrete. This causes the sleeper to crack and disintegrate. Really? Perhaps you should inform railway companies throughout the world about that, given that concrete is by far the most common material for new sleepers. Don't you ever look at the track? -- Concrete does allow for higher speeds. |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
wrote in message
Are they also planning to upgrade signalling system on the Metropolitan line? Long story... Metronet was planning to, but the contract was cancelled after it went bust. It's still likely to happen, but a few more years into the future, and using a different system (thank goodness!). TfL isn't exactly flush with investment funds thse days. |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
Paul Scott wrote:
wrote in message ... What is it that they are actually doing? It seems almost to be every weekend. Rebuilding the 'sub surface railway' track and formation to mainline standards throughout, so that the S stock will ride properly when delivered. I've seen precious little evidence of that yet. There has been significant slaughtering of the trees on the embankments, though, north of Rickmansworth - some pretty big ones at that. |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message ... Paul Scott wrote: wrote in message ... What is it that they are actually doing? It seems almost to be every weekend. Rebuilding the 'sub surface railway' track and formation to mainline standards throughout, so that the S stock will ride properly when delivered. I've seen precious little evidence of that yet. There has been significant slaughtering of the trees on the embankments, though, north of Rickmansworth - some pretty big ones at that. Why are they chopping down the trees? |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 11:35:07 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote: Rebuilding the 'sub surface railway' track and formation to mainline standards throughout, so that the S stock will ride properly when delivered. Genuinely? About bloody time if they are. Talking of such, I note that there is new continuously welded bullhead rail in Euston Square station - never seen that before! Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
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No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
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No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
Jack Taylor wrote:
Paul Scott wrote: Rebuilding the 'sub surface railway' track and formation to mainline standards throughout, so that the S stock will ride properly when delivered. I've seen precious little evidence of that yet. There has been significant slaughtering of the trees on the embankments, though, north of Rickmansworth - some pretty big ones at that. Now we know what the S stands for... |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
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No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
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No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
Recliner wrote:
wrote in message Are they also planning to upgrade signalling system on the Metropolitan line? Long story... Metronet was planning to, but the contract was cancelled after it went bust. It's still likely to happen, but a few more years into the future, and using a different system (thank goodness!). TfL isn't exactly flush with investment funds thse days. The fun bit will be if the proposed ATP system (originally proposed to be the latest revision of SELCAB, I believe) *isn't* backwards compatible with that fitted to the Chiltern Railways fleet. Picture the scene: First train after resignalling gets to Harrow South Junction or Mantles Wood and the ATP equipment picks up a "foreign" signal that it doesn't understand and decides to sit down and sulk. Cheers, Barry |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 03:58:36 +0100
Barry Salter wrote: Recliner wrote: wrote in message Are they also planning to upgrade signalling system on the Metropolitan line? Long story... Metronet was planning to, but the contract was cancelled after it went bust. It's still likely to happen, but a few more years into the future, and using a different system (thank goodness!). TfL isn't exactly flush with investment funds thse days. The fun bit will be if the proposed ATP system (originally proposed to be the latest revision of SELCAB, I believe) *isn't* backwards compatible with that fitted to the Chiltern Railways fleet. Wouldn't this new system have to be fitted not just to the met but the H&C, circle and district too if they want the S stock to be interchangable on all lines? Or will we be back to the old situation of certain trains only being able to run on certain lines because someone in times past had bugger all common sense (A stock being too wide for parts of the district line for example)? B2003 |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
On Apr 9, 9:49*am, wrote:
On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 03:58:36 +0100 Barry Salter wrote: Recliner wrote: wrote in message Are they also planning to upgrade signalling system on the Metropolitan line? Long story... *Metronet was planning to, but the contract was cancelled after it went bust. It's still likely to happen, but a few more years into the future, and using a different system (thank goodness!). TfL isn't exactly flush with investment funds thse days. The fun bit will be if the proposed ATP system (originally proposed to be the latest revision of SELCAB, I believe) *isn't* backwards compatible with that fitted to the Chiltern Railways fleet. Wouldn't this new system have to be fitted not just to the met but the H&C, circle and district too if they want the S stock to be interchangable on all lines? Or will we be back to the old situation of certain trains only being able to run on certain lines because someone in times past had bugger all common sense (A stock being too wide for parts of the district line for example)? Yes, of course the new system is being fitted to the whole SSL. -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
wrote in message
On Apr 9, 9:49 am, wrote: On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 03:58:36 +0100 Barry Salter wrote: Recliner wrote: wrote in message Are they also planning to upgrade signalling system on the Metropolitan line? Long story... Metronet was planning to, but the contract was cancelled after it went bust. It's still likely to happen, but a few more years into the future, and using a different system (thank goodness!). TfL isn't exactly flush with investment funds thse days. The fun bit will be if the proposed ATP system (originally proposed to be the latest revision of SELCAB, I believe) *isn't* backwards compatible with that fitted to the Chiltern Railways fleet. Wouldn't this new system have to be fitted not just to the met but the H&C, circle and district too if they want the S stock to be interchangable on all lines? Or will we be back to the old situation of certain trains only being able to run on certain lines because someone in times past had bugger all common sense (A stock being too wide for parts of the district line for example)? Yes, of course the new system is being fitted to the whole SSL. Indeed so, but the original Metronet plan was to use a different system to that planned by Tubelines for the Northern, Picc and Jubilee lines. Given that the Picc shares tracks with the Met and District, this could have caused real chaos at Ealing Common and Rayner's lane, as well as round Wembley Park. |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 11:43:10 +0100
"Recliner" wrote: Yes, of course the new system is being fitted to the whole SSL. Indeed so, but the original Metronet plan was to use a different system to that planned by Tubelines for the Northern, Picc and Jubilee lines. Given that the Picc shares tracks with the Met and District, this could have caused real chaos at Ealing Common and Rayner's lane, as well as round Wembley Park. Hadn't they notice that the picc and met share the same track between rayners lane and uxbridge? B2003 |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
Why are they chopping down the trees? STEAM! Back in the days of old when steam ran, the heat and exhaust used to keep any trees at bay and preventing them from encroaching too close to the railway (with of course the odd fire thrown in) However, as mentioned, since those days are long gone (electrification) the trees themselves have pretty much grown as they wanted. They also cut them down when they need to do bank stabilisation works. |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
On Apr 9, 12:16*pm, wrote:
Hadn't they notice that the picc and met share the same track between rayners lane and uxbridge? Of course they had. The plan was (I think) to have both systems installed on the track. As long as each one knows where all of the trains on the section are, there's no problem. As far as I know, no new contract has been awarded, so it could still go to a contractor who uses a different system to the Piccadilly (which will likely get Alcatel S40 - the same as Jubilee (being installed), Northern (planned) and DLR (in use for years) - due to being controlled by Tube Lines. U |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
"Mr Thant" wrote in message
On Apr 9, 12:16 pm, wrote: Hadn't they notice that the picc and met share the same track between rayners lane and uxbridge? Of course they had. The plan was (I think) to have both systems installed on the track. As long as each one knows where all of the trains on the section are, there's no problem. As far as I know, no new contract has been awarded, so it could still go to a contractor who uses a different system to the Piccadilly (which will likely get Alcatel S40 - the same as Jubilee (being installed), Northern (planned) and DLR (in use for years) - due to being controlled by Tube Lines. I would imagine that there's now a very high probability that the SSL will share the same signalling system as the JNP lines. |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
On Apr 9, 8:57*pm, Paul Corfield wrote: On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 11:34:15 -0700 (PDT), Mr Thant wrote: On Apr 9, 12:16*pm, wrote: Hadn't they notice that the picc and met share the same track between rayners lane and uxbridge? Of course they had. The plan was (I think) to have both systems installed on the track. As long as each one knows where all of the trains on the section are, there's no problem. Thank you - I appreciate it is the vogue to denounce LUL as being thick and short sighted but yes, of course, this point has been considered. I had composed a sarky reply earlier today along the lines of "No, nobody realised, the problem being is that Metronet's and TubeLine's maps only show their own network" but didn't send it because I thought the tone of discussion could be higher than that... next time however I'll press send, I feel it's always worthwhile highlighting ludicrousity (to coin a phrase)! As far as I know, no new contract has been awarded, so it could still go to a contractor who uses a different system to the Piccadilly (which will likely get Alcatel S40 - the same as Jubilee (being installed), Northern (planned) and DLR (in use for years) - due to being controlled by Tube Lines. The SSL resignalling project is at pre-qualification stage only at present - David Waboso wrote to Modern Railways recently to point this out. The ITT and spec are not yet finalised so no bidders are yet identified. *You quite rightly point out that something other than Seltrac could well be chosen for the SSL network and thus various sets of integration would be required with all sorts of signalling technology. *Tube Lines are proposing Seltrac for the Picc Line and how this is delivered is part of the restated terms process for resetting the Tube Lines contract from mid 2010. Under the PPP contracts how much of a say does LUL have in what system gets chosen? (Obviously LUL have rather a lot of say in what Metronet decides to do these days!) |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 21:05:18 +0100, "Recliner" wrote: "Mr Thant" wrote in message On Apr 9, 12:16 pm, wrote: Hadn't they notice that the picc and met share the same track between rayners lane and uxbridge? Of course they had. The plan was (I think) to have both systems installed on the track. As long as each one knows where all of the trains on the section are, there's no problem. As far as I know, no new contract has been awarded, so it could still go to a contractor who uses a different system to the Piccadilly (which will likely get Alcatel S40 - the same as Jubilee (being installed), Northern (planned) and DLR (in use for years) - due to being controlled by Tube Lines. I would imagine that there's now a very high probability that the SSL will share the same signalling system as the JNP lines. Why? There's no way under EU procurement rules that LUL can write a specification that effectively allows only one bidder to be successful so how else is Thales going to have "a very high probability" of winning the contract? Surely LUL can set tough interoperability standards that would lead to a single system being chosen? |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
On 9 Apr, 01:40, "John Rowland"
wrote: Jack Taylor wrote: Paul Scott wrote: Rebuilding the 'sub surface railway' track and formation to mainline standards throughout, so that the S stock will ride properly when delivered. I've seen precious little evidence of that yet. There has been significant slaughtering of the trees on the embankments, though, north of Rickmansworth - some pretty big ones at that. Now we know what the S stands for... Sycamore? |
No full metropolitan line service this weekend - again
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