On Sun, 19 Apr 2009, rail wrote:

In message
Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 17:24:56 on Sun,
19 Apr 2009, rail remarked:

I would take a police car behind me blipping his siren as an
instruction to move aside.

The Met advice makes it quite clear what their expectations are.

I did point out that specifically the Met were not involved.

I would not expect other forces to have different advice, particularly
when it comes to running red lights.

The key word is expectations, not instructions.

They do not expect that a police car can give instructions to a motorist
to do the various things previously listed.

I don't expect any kind of vehicle, let alone a police car, to issue any
instructions to anyone to do anything.

"Ello, ello, ello Michael ..."

tom

--
curry in a sack

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 19:59:31 +0100, "MB" wrote:


"Mark Goodge" wrote in message
shouse.net...
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 10:57:32 +0100, Roland Perry put finger to
keyboard and typed:

In message , at
10:27:15 on Sun, 19 Apr 2009, MB remarked:
As for police advice, it's very specific (as part of a long list of
things they don't expect you to do):

"We do NOT expect you to put yourself in danger by crossing red
traffic lights to make way for us."

http://www.met.police.uk/mpds/advice.htm

That sounds like a clever way of saying "we would like you get out of
our
way at traffic lights if it is safe but if you have an accident we will
not
accept any responsibility and probably charge you"

Except when you look at the page as a whole, when it's clear that's not
the hidden meaning.

I think the last one on that page is the most telling:

We do NOT expect you to risk road camera fines by, for example,
moving in to bus lanes during hours of operation to make way for us.

That is, effectively, saying that making way for an emergency vehicle
is not considered sufficient grounds to challenge an automatically
issued fixed penalty notice from a camera monitored location. Bus
lanes are one common example of such locations, others would be
light-controlled junctions that have red light cameras.


Probably because enforcement of these is outside the control of the police
and they don't want to get in arguments with the companies or organisations
doing the enforcement. They should perhaps also advise about driving into
the entrance of some private car parks to clear a way for an emergency
vehicle because that could be enough to get a penalty.

Enforcement of bus lanes is not IMU outwith the control of the police
but is merely additionally enforced by some other agencies (e.g. TfL
using a "prescribed device" to detect offenders).

In message , at 04:56:20 on
Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Charles Ellson remarked:
Enforcement of bus lanes is not IMU outwith the control of the police
but is merely additionally enforced by some other agencies (e.g. TfL
using a "prescribed device" to detect offenders).

Hasn't it been decriminalised in some places? I know that bus lane
policing in Nottingham is now done by the City Council, on the same
basis as LAPE parking enforcement.

http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/ind...articleid=2052
--
Roland Perry

David A Stocks wrote:

I'm struggling to think of a case where you could "make way" for an
emergency vehicle by moving into a bus lane. If the bus lane is clear
the emergency vehicle should be using it, not you ...

The bus lane might not be clear, it just might just have a gap between buses
alongside you.

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:20:16 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:


On Apr 17, 3:23*pm, "Kev Lawrence"
wrote:
See also

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...an-deletes-tou...

!

Indeed, I've just read that in the Guardian - here's a link to their
article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/ap...tourist-photos

The incident appears to have happened at Walthamstow bus station. One
suspects that the police bods in question are likely to have been
PCSOs rather than proper police officers, though that's just
supposition. Whatever, the police really need to get their act in
order.


its usually PCSOs at walthamstow Bus Station, especially when the
schoolchildren are going home.

In article ,
(Tony Polson) wrote:

I think a British FBI is essential. I would strongly prefer to have the
national anti-terrorism effort centralised and subject to the control of
parliament than scattered around many police forces and subject to the
control of thousands of amateurish local councillors.

As opposed to amateurish ministers making a thorough fist of things?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 08:14:14 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 04:56:20 on
Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Charles Ellson remarked:
Enforcement of bus lanes is not IMU outwith the control of the police
but is merely additionally enforced by some other agencies (e.g. TfL
using a "prescribed device" to detect offenders).

Hasn't it been decriminalised in some places? I know that bus lane
policing in Nottingham is now done by the City Council, on the same
basis as LAPE parking enforcement.

http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/ind...articleid=2052

AFAICT you now have two lots of officaldom available to get you unlike
with yellow-line parking offences. A similar arrangement seems to
exist in Greater London where if you park across somebody's driveway
you are now liable to receive a PCN from the local authority for
causing a wilful obstruction but the police can still have you if the
council haven't ticketed you first.

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Mark Goodge
gently breathed:

I think the last one on that page is the most telling:

We do NOT expect you to risk road camera fines by, for example,
moving in to bus lanes during hours of operation to make way for us.

That is, effectively, saying that making way for an emergency vehicle
is not considered sufficient grounds to challenge an automatically
issued fixed penalty notice from a camera monitored location. Bus
lanes are one common example of such locations, others would be
light-controlled junctions that have red light cameras.

If there was an empty bus lane, I'd expect the emergency vehicle to be
in it already, after all the crew will easily be able to prove they were
answering an emergency call if they get caught on camera.

--
- DJ Pyromancer, Black Sheep, Leeds. http://www.sheepish.net
- Wisefire Promotions, Goth & Metal. http://www.wise-fire.com
- http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk http://www.revival.stormshadow.com

"Pyromancer" wrote in message
news
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Mark Goodge
gently breathed:

I think the last one on that page is the most telling:

We do NOT expect you to risk road camera fines by, for example,
moving in to bus lanes during hours of operation to make way for us.

That is, effectively, saying that making way for an emergency vehicle
is not considered sufficient grounds to challenge an automatically
issued fixed penalty notice from a camera monitored location. Bus
lanes are one common example of such locations, others would be
light-controlled junctions that have red light cameras.

If there was an empty bus lane, I'd expect the emergency vehicle to be in
it already, after all the crew will easily be able to prove they were
answering an emergency call if they get caught on camera.



As suggested previously, it might not be an empty bus lane, it might be a
bus lane with gaps between the buses so a car could tuck itself into there
to leave it's lane clear for the emergency vehicle.

rail writes:

There are still circumstances where you can be instructed by a police officer
in uniform to pass a red light. eg when the lights have failed and the
crossing is being controlled manually.

Not only can you be instructed to pass the red light, but where a
junction is controlled by a policeman on point duty, the junction should
be treated as though the traffic lights are not there. I wonder if
anyone has received a red-light camera penalty when the junction is
being controlled by a police officer?