On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:54:33 -0700 (PDT), Abigail Brady
wrote:

On Apr 20, 9:31 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On the rare occasions the Heathrow Express substitutes for the
Piccadilly Line, the conductors are instructed to only see you have an
Oyster card.

Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

There are no gates or validators at Heathrow or Paddington. The gates
on platforms 2-5 don't seem to accept any kind of Oyster card either.

On Apr 20, 11:54*pm, Abigail Brady wrote:
Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

No and no. So the journey is free.

I believe the publicity last time this happened implied you needed to
have a Z1-6 Travelcard (paper or Oyster) or a paper ticket, but the
Heathrow Express conductors aren't issued with Oyster card readers,
and are not instructed to even ask what's on the card.

U

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:51:24 +0100, Ian Jelf wrote:

In message
,
Mizter T writes

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

In fact, they're free to everyone.

I've always wondered about that last point. Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?

The Oyster reader on the bus is switched off. Anyone attempting to
touch in, or to show a ticket or Oyster card to the driver, is waved
away or ignored.

On Apr 21, 8:08*am, asdf wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:51:24 +0100, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message
,
Mizter T writes

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

In fact, they're free to everyone.

Not necessarily true. The long term rail replacement bus services for
the East London Line all require passengers to produce a ticket of
some sort for inspection by the driver or for swiping on the Oyster
reader - however if you use an Oyster card then you are charged a fare
of £0.00.

I'm not sure whether this has been implemented elsewhere. I don't
recall it happening on the replacement buses that covered part of the
North London Line route during its two-and-a-half month partial
closure for works on the Hampstead tunnel last autumn.


I've always wondered about that last point. * Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?

The Oyster reader on the bus is switched off. Anyone attempting to
touch in, or to show a ticket or Oyster card to the driver, is waved
away or ignored.

Except, as I say above, this isn't the case on the ELL replacement bus
services.

On Apr 20, 5:34*pm, MatthewD wrote:

On 20 Apr, 16:51, Ian Jelf wrote:

In message
,
Mizter T writes

On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:
When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.

Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

I've always wondered about that last point. * Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?

The East London Line rail replacement services charge a PAYG fare of
£0.00, as long as you have enough credit on your card for a Zone 2
tube journey.

Not true - you can use the ELL replacement buses even if your Oyster
PAYG balance is zero.


When Shepherd's Bush was closed, journeys on the 148 were
automatically refunded within a few days.

Very interesting - I hadn't come across this at all. How was this
implemented?

On Apr 21, 12:24*am, Mr Thant
wrote:

On Apr 20, 11:54*pm, Abigail Brady wrote:

Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

No and no. So the journey is free.

I believe the publicity last time this happened implied you needed to
have a Z1-6 Travelcard (paper or Oyster) or a paper ticket, but the
Heathrow Express conductors aren't issued with Oyster card readers,
and are not instructed to even ask what's on the card.


That's not quite right. Initially the publicity stated that you needed
to have a Z1-6 Travelcard if you wanted to use HEx, and also if you
wanted to use Heathrow Connect to/from Heathrow (even if you were only
starting from Ealing Broadway for example).

However during later Picc closures and associated HEx substitution
this changed to stating that you could use Oyster PAYG so long as you
had sufficient PAYG credit on your card, or some other such ambiguous
wording.

I only realised there had been a change because I decided to go for a
ride on the HEx during one of these weekends, and armed myself with a
Travelcard - I was then surprised to see the number of people who
wielded an Oyster card when the conductor turned up. So once at the
Heathrow end I asked one of the several LU passenger assistants who
was milling about what the story was - they said Oyster PAYG could
indeed be used, and also that there was no requirement to touch-in or
out at the start/end of the HEx or HC journey [1]. I again asked the
same question at the Paddington end and got the same answer.

I then looked at the publicity and it also stated that Oyster PAYG was
acceptable. In other words the rules for 'LU passengers' using the HEx
on substitution days had indeed changed to become more flexible. I
have buried somewhere a few leaflets regarding the Picc line closures
which illustrate this change, so I guess I could scan them if I find
them soon. I'd intended to post about this here on utl, but I'm afraid
I never quite got round to it at the time.


-----
[1] With regards to Heathrow Connect, one can see the potential for
getting hit with an unresolved journey if changing between the Tube
and HC at Ealing B'way and not touching-in/out on the interchange
validators there - or likewise the potential for an unresolved journey
if entering or exiting the system at Ealing Broadway. That is, unless
the gates and readers at Ealing Broadway had been reconfigured for
that weekend so as to merely charge the minimum PAYG fare and exclude
it from being categorised as an unresolved journey, which I think it
possible - I thought of getting to Ealing B'way to test this out, but
I hadn't the time on that day.

On Apr 20, 11:54*pm, Abigail Brady wrote:

On Apr 20, 9:31 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:

On the rare occasions the Heathrow Express substitutes for the
Piccadilly Line, the conductors are instructed to only see you have an
Oyster card.

Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

As Mr Thant has said, no the HEx platforms are not gated at either
end.

I understand the plan is for Oyster PAYG to be accepted on Heathrow
Connect (but not HEx) soon. In a way this is great, and in the long
term it's useful as it smooths the way for Crossrail accepting Oyster
PAYG all the way to and from Heathrow, but one can inevitably see the
copious potential for confusion - passengers wishing to use Oyster
PAYG ending up on HEx, Heathrow Express passengers who correctly hold
separate tickets also managing to touch-in/out and ending up with
unresolved journeys. etc etc.

"Matthew T^Dickinson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:54:33 -0700 (PDT), Abigail Brady
wrote:

Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

There are no gates or validators at Heathrow or Paddington. The gates
on platforms 2-5 don't seem to accept any kind of Oyster card either.

The latter presumably being a sensible measure to avoid arguments with pax
expecting to touch out at Reading or Bristol etc...

Paul S

On Apr 21, 10:15*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

"Matthew T^Dickinson" wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:54:33 -0700 (PDT), Abigail Brady
wrote:

Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

There are no gates or validators at Heathrow or Paddington. The gates
on platforms 2-5 don't seem to accept any kind of Oyster card either.

The latter presumably being a sensible measure to avoid arguments with pax
expecting to touch out at Reading or Bristol etc...


Of course there's already some potential for such things to happen
when starting a journey at Euston (suburban platforms), Kings Cross
(suburban), Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street, as well as pax from
Paddington going beyond West Drayton on Thames Valley stoppers, plus
all the central London Thameslink stations as well [1].

And there'll obviously be plenty more opportunities for such things to
happen once Oyster PAYG on NR is introduced - one can inevitably,
unfortunately, see fare evaders willing to take the £5 unresolved
journey charge (as applies at NR termini stations) to get through the
gates at termini stations and then travelling out to gateless stations
in the hope that they won't encounter a ticket check en-route. I'm
certain this has been one of the TOCs concerns with regards to Oyster
PAYG - unlike LU, they do not benefit from having a more or less
comprehensively gated network of course.


-----
[1] Re Thameslink at London Bridge - none of the gates are currently
set-up to use Oyster PAYG, instead there are readers on the Thameslink
platforms that a passenger must use (on platform posters explain
this), and then at the gates you need to explain yourself to the
gateline staff before they'll let you though. Not an ideal
arrangement, but I'd say it's far preferable to hordes of folk
erroneously thinking they can use Oyster PAYG for all suburban London
journeys from London Bridge and then ending up with unresolved
journeys, plus also effectively travelling ticketless and so being
liable to penalty fares as well.

Ian Jelf wrote in news:vRd
:

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

I've always wondered about that last point. Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?

It seems a little random. I had to go to Walthamstow a few weeks ago when
the Victoria line was closed. I took the Picc line to Finsbury Park, from
where there was a replacement bus. At Finsbury Park I asked if I should
touch out (there are no gates, just an Oyster pad on the wall) and I was
told not to.

At Walthamstow, the station was closed and locked, so no chance of touching
out, and I got charged for an unresolved journey. I dare say I could have
complained, but life is too short.

Peter

--
Peter Campbell Smith ~ London ~ pjcs00 (a) gmail.com