"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:
When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.


Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 19, 11:40*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:

When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.



Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

On this point, there's still been no answer on how journey
continuations are managed with replacement buses, including long term
ones.

Is Shadwell and Whitechapel an outerchange with a long time limit?
Does it require touching on the bus?

I was wondering what would have been charged on the DLR recently, but
decided to travel via West Ham and avoid the problem.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

In message
,
Mizter T writes

On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:
When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.


Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

I've always wondered about that last point. Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On 20 Apr, 16:51, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message
,
Mizter T writes





On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:
When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.

Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

I've always wondered about that last point. * Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of Englandhttp://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

The East London Line rail replacement services charge a PAYG fare of
£0.00, as long as you have enough credit on your card for a Zone 2
tube journey.

When Shepherd's Bush was closed, journeys on the 148 were
automatically refunded within a few days.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 20, 6:39*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:40:02 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:



On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:
When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.

Not necessarily true. *There is a concept of "continuation" so that if
people are forced to exit a station and use a bus to reach their end
point the gate or validator will set an appropriate "bit" in the card
which will then flag any subsequent bus journey as a continuation and
therefore to be refunded or waived. *It's more to deal with a serious
incident where a tube service is suspended and people are forced to
leave the train service and continue via other means.

Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

It might be complex but it has been thought of. *In addition stations
can "alias" for one that might be closed. For example if St Johns Wood
was closed for some reason Baker Street could be to be its alias and
thus Travelcards valid to Zone 2 but not Zone 1 would be accepted by the
gates. PAYG charging would be based to Zone 2 levels (for those
travelling from the north of St Johns Wood). *This can also be used when
stations are closed post event e.g. Hyde Park Corner and people are
advised to enter the system elsewhere.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

Correct but if there is a rail replacement bus on a section of a line
where it joins tube services at both ends then the stations at each end
of the suspension will become OSIs and will recognise the exit from the
station where people boarded buses as part of a continued journey. Upon
final exit a new charge is not created - the gate looks back through the
journey history to the original entry point to determine the fare due.
I know this because I referred an issue from a query on another group to
someone in LUL who followed up with the Oyster Control Centre to see if
the correct settings had been reached the gates at each end of the rail
replacement service.

Is the continuation affected by what you do in between, eg does it
require a touch on the replacement bus ... is it discontinued if you
touch on something else, like a regular bus?


I know it is fashionable for people to say Oyster is a load of old crap
but there are some very sophisticated functionality inside it. *It will
become much more complex when it has to deal with NR PAYG later this
year. *And I regret I cannot take up the cudgels for anyone who feels
the system has not worked as described before you all post your
complaints in response to this explanation!

I think it seems to pretty much work as designed, but I would question
some of the deliberate implementation decisions that have been made
and, more importantly, parallel decisions regarding cash fares.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 20, 7:12*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:49:54 -0700 (PDT), MIG





wrote:
On Apr 20, 6:39*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:40:02 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

Correct but if there is a rail replacement bus on a section of a line
where it joins tube services at both ends then the stations at each end
of the suspension will become OSIs and will recognise the exit from the
station where people boarded buses as part of a continued journey. Upon
final exit a new charge is not created - the gate looks back through the
journey history to the original entry point to determine the fare due.
I know this because I referred an issue from a query on another group to
someone in LUL who followed up with the Oyster Control Centre to see if
the correct settings had been reached the gates at each end of the rail
replacement service.

Is the continuation affected by what you do in between, eg does it
require a touch on the replacement bus ... is it discontinued if you
touch on something else, like a regular bus?

No touch in is needed on the rail replacement bus.

Obviously if you start at a point where the station is ostensibly closed
and the first thing you do is board the RR bus then you get that bit for
free. Only when you reach the connection point to the tube do you get
the chance to touch in (and obviously touch out on the return leg when
you leave the tube system to catch the bus). The Vic Line replacement
services are good examples of this scenario as there is no rail service
to connect to. *Will be fun though when PAYG runs north of Walthamstow
to Chingford and from Brixton NR to wherever. Validators at those places
will need to recognise the fact that someone may have got on somewhere
in central London, left the tube, caught the RR bus and are now
continuing their journey on NR so that only one through PAYG fare from
Z1 to wherever is charged.

I don't know what happens if a "normal" bus is used for "touching in".
I'm afraid I only know the high level concepts here and not the
interaction at a very detailed level. *I would imagine that if, as is
often the case, people are required to use a service bus, rather than
rail replacement, then being able to combine continuation with the OSIs
at the ends of the suspended service would be a logical thing to do. I
can't say if the system does work in this way.

It'll be a long time before I can test it out, because I'm now on out-
boundary travelcard season (and only scuppered when using the Amersham
line).

I bottled out of replacement bus when I was on PAYG and needed to get
from DLR to Stepney a couple of weeks ago during engineering works.


I know it is fashionable for people to say Oyster is a load of old crap
but there are some very sophisticated functionality inside it. *It will
become much more complex when it has to deal with NR PAYG later this
year. *And I regret I cannot take up the cudgels for anyone who feels
the system has not worked as described before you all post your
complaints in response to this explanation!

I think it seems to pretty much work as designed, but I would question
some of the deliberate implementation decisions that have been made
and, more importantly, parallel decisions regarding cash fares.

And you're never going to let us forget your views about the cash fare
issue are you? *I think it features in about 70% of your posts about
Oyster or related matters.

I don't suppose LU will stop charging the fares just because they've
already done it once.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On 20 Apr, 19:12, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:49:54 -0700 (PDT), MIG



wrote:
On Apr 20, 6:39*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:40:02 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

Correct but if there is a rail replacement bus on a section of a line
where it joins tube services at both ends then the stations at each end
of the suspension will become OSIs and will recognise the exit from the
station where people boarded buses as part of a continued journey. Upon
final exit a new charge is not created - the gate looks back through the
journey history to the original entry point to determine the fare due.
I know this because I referred an issue from a query on another group to
someone in LUL who followed up with the Oyster Control Centre to see if
the correct settings had been reached the gates at each end of the rail
replacement service.

Is the continuation affected by what you do in between, eg does it
require a touch on the replacement bus ... is it discontinued if you
touch on something else, like a regular bus?

No touch in is needed on the rail replacement bus.

Obviously if you start at a point where the station is ostensibly closed
and the first thing you do is board the RR bus then you get that bit for
free. Only when you reach the connection point to the tube do you get
the chance to touch in (and obviously touch out on the return leg when
you leave the tube system to catch the bus). The Vic Line replacement
services are good examples of this scenario as there is no rail service
to connect to. *Will be fun though when PAYG runs north of Walthamstow
to Chingford and from Brixton NR to wherever. Validators at those places
will need to recognise the fact that someone may have got on somewhere
in central London, left the tube, caught the RR bus and are now
continuing their journey on NR so that only one through PAYG fare from
Z1 to wherever is charged.

I don't know what happens if a "normal" bus is used for "touching in".
I'm afraid I only know the high level concepts here and not the
interaction at a very detailed level. *I would imagine that if, as is
often the case, people are required to use a service bus, rather than
rail replacement, then being able to combine continuation with the OSIs
at the ends of the suspended service would be a logical thing to do. I
can't say if the system does work in this way.


Given the implementation on the 148 at Shepherd's Bush I would suspect
that adjustments can only be made by the Oystercard helpdesk. These
have to be picked up at a gateline in the same way as an online topup.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 20, 4:51*pm, Ian Jelf wrote:
I've always wondered about that last point. * Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?

I've never sure, so I just wander on without looking at the driver or
touching my card. They never seem to care.

(and in fact the last time I got one we were encouraged to board via
the middle doors)

On the rare occasions the Heathrow Express substitutes for the
Piccadilly Line, the conductors are instructed to only see you have an
Oyster card.

U

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 20, 9:31 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On the rare occasions the Heathrow Express substitutes for the
Piccadilly Line, the conductors are instructed to only see you have an
Oyster card.

Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

--
Abi