"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:
When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.


Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 19, 11:40*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:

When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.



Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

On this point, there's still been no answer on how journey
continuations are managed with replacement buses, including long term
ones.

Is Shadwell and Whitechapel an outerchange with a long time limit?
Does it require touching on the bus?

I was wondering what would have been charged on the DLR recently, but
decided to travel via West Ham and avoid the problem.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

In message
,
Mizter T writes

On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:
When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.


Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

I've always wondered about that last point. Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On 20 Apr, 16:51, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message
,
Mizter T writes





On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:
When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.

Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

I've always wondered about that last point. * Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of Englandhttp://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

The East London Line rail replacement services charge a PAYG fare of
£0.00, as long as you have enough credit on your card for a Zone 2
tube journey.

When Shepherd's Bush was closed, journeys on the 148 were
automatically refunded within a few days.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 20, 6:39*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:40:02 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:



On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:
When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.

Not necessarily true. *There is a concept of "continuation" so that if
people are forced to exit a station and use a bus to reach their end
point the gate or validator will set an appropriate "bit" in the card
which will then flag any subsequent bus journey as a continuation and
therefore to be refunded or waived. *It's more to deal with a serious
incident where a tube service is suspended and people are forced to
leave the train service and continue via other means.

Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

It might be complex but it has been thought of. *In addition stations
can "alias" for one that might be closed. For example if St Johns Wood
was closed for some reason Baker Street could be to be its alias and
thus Travelcards valid to Zone 2 but not Zone 1 would be accepted by the
gates. PAYG charging would be based to Zone 2 levels (for those
travelling from the north of St Johns Wood). *This can also be used when
stations are closed post event e.g. Hyde Park Corner and people are
advised to enter the system elsewhere.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

Correct but if there is a rail replacement bus on a section of a line
where it joins tube services at both ends then the stations at each end
of the suspension will become OSIs and will recognise the exit from the
station where people boarded buses as part of a continued journey. Upon
final exit a new charge is not created - the gate looks back through the
journey history to the original entry point to determine the fare due.
I know this because I referred an issue from a query on another group to
someone in LUL who followed up with the Oyster Control Centre to see if
the correct settings had been reached the gates at each end of the rail
replacement service.

Is the continuation affected by what you do in between, eg does it
require a touch on the replacement bus ... is it discontinued if you
touch on something else, like a regular bus?


I know it is fashionable for people to say Oyster is a load of old crap
but there are some very sophisticated functionality inside it. *It will
become much more complex when it has to deal with NR PAYG later this
year. *And I regret I cannot take up the cudgels for anyone who feels
the system has not worked as described before you all post your
complaints in response to this explanation!

I think it seems to pretty much work as designed, but I would question
some of the deliberate implementation decisions that have been made
and, more importantly, parallel decisions regarding cash fares.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 20, 7:12*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:49:54 -0700 (PDT), MIG





wrote:
On Apr 20, 6:39*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:40:02 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

Correct but if there is a rail replacement bus on a section of a line
where it joins tube services at both ends then the stations at each end
of the suspension will become OSIs and will recognise the exit from the
station where people boarded buses as part of a continued journey. Upon
final exit a new charge is not created - the gate looks back through the
journey history to the original entry point to determine the fare due.
I know this because I referred an issue from a query on another group to
someone in LUL who followed up with the Oyster Control Centre to see if
the correct settings had been reached the gates at each end of the rail
replacement service.

Is the continuation affected by what you do in between, eg does it
require a touch on the replacement bus ... is it discontinued if you
touch on something else, like a regular bus?

No touch in is needed on the rail replacement bus.

Obviously if you start at a point where the station is ostensibly closed
and the first thing you do is board the RR bus then you get that bit for
free. Only when you reach the connection point to the tube do you get
the chance to touch in (and obviously touch out on the return leg when
you leave the tube system to catch the bus). The Vic Line replacement
services are good examples of this scenario as there is no rail service
to connect to. *Will be fun though when PAYG runs north of Walthamstow
to Chingford and from Brixton NR to wherever. Validators at those places
will need to recognise the fact that someone may have got on somewhere
in central London, left the tube, caught the RR bus and are now
continuing their journey on NR so that only one through PAYG fare from
Z1 to wherever is charged.

I don't know what happens if a "normal" bus is used for "touching in".
I'm afraid I only know the high level concepts here and not the
interaction at a very detailed level. *I would imagine that if, as is
often the case, people are required to use a service bus, rather than
rail replacement, then being able to combine continuation with the OSIs
at the ends of the suspended service would be a logical thing to do. I
can't say if the system does work in this way.

It'll be a long time before I can test it out, because I'm now on out-
boundary travelcard season (and only scuppered when using the Amersham
line).

I bottled out of replacement bus when I was on PAYG and needed to get
from DLR to Stepney a couple of weeks ago during engineering works.


I know it is fashionable for people to say Oyster is a load of old crap
but there are some very sophisticated functionality inside it. *It will
become much more complex when it has to deal with NR PAYG later this
year. *And I regret I cannot take up the cudgels for anyone who feels
the system has not worked as described before you all post your
complaints in response to this explanation!

I think it seems to pretty much work as designed, but I would question
some of the deliberate implementation decisions that have been made
and, more importantly, parallel decisions regarding cash fares.

And you're never going to let us forget your views about the cash fare
issue are you? *I think it features in about 70% of your posts about
Oyster or related matters.

I don't suppose LU will stop charging the fares just because they've
already done it once.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On 20 Apr, 19:12, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:49:54 -0700 (PDT), MIG



wrote:
On Apr 20, 6:39*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:40:02 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

Correct but if there is a rail replacement bus on a section of a line
where it joins tube services at both ends then the stations at each end
of the suspension will become OSIs and will recognise the exit from the
station where people boarded buses as part of a continued journey. Upon
final exit a new charge is not created - the gate looks back through the
journey history to the original entry point to determine the fare due.
I know this because I referred an issue from a query on another group to
someone in LUL who followed up with the Oyster Control Centre to see if
the correct settings had been reached the gates at each end of the rail
replacement service.

Is the continuation affected by what you do in between, eg does it
require a touch on the replacement bus ... is it discontinued if you
touch on something else, like a regular bus?

No touch in is needed on the rail replacement bus.

Obviously if you start at a point where the station is ostensibly closed
and the first thing you do is board the RR bus then you get that bit for
free. Only when you reach the connection point to the tube do you get
the chance to touch in (and obviously touch out on the return leg when
you leave the tube system to catch the bus). The Vic Line replacement
services are good examples of this scenario as there is no rail service
to connect to. *Will be fun though when PAYG runs north of Walthamstow
to Chingford and from Brixton NR to wherever. Validators at those places
will need to recognise the fact that someone may have got on somewhere
in central London, left the tube, caught the RR bus and are now
continuing their journey on NR so that only one through PAYG fare from
Z1 to wherever is charged.

I don't know what happens if a "normal" bus is used for "touching in".
I'm afraid I only know the high level concepts here and not the
interaction at a very detailed level. *I would imagine that if, as is
often the case, people are required to use a service bus, rather than
rail replacement, then being able to combine continuation with the OSIs
at the ends of the suspended service would be a logical thing to do. I
can't say if the system does work in this way.


Given the implementation on the 148 at Shepherd's Bush I would suspect
that adjustments can only be made by the Oystercard helpdesk. These
have to be picked up at a gateline in the same way as an online topup.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 20, 4:51*pm, Ian Jelf wrote:
I've always wondered about that last point. * Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?

I've never sure, so I just wander on without looking at the driver or
touching my card. They never seem to care.

(and in fact the last time I got one we were encouraged to board via
the middle doors)

On the rare occasions the Heathrow Express substitutes for the
Piccadilly Line, the conductors are instructed to only see you have an
Oyster card.

U

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 20, 9:31 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On the rare occasions the Heathrow Express substitutes for the
Piccadilly Line, the conductors are instructed to only see you have an
Oyster card.

Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

--
Abi

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:54:33 -0700 (PDT), Abigail Brady
wrote:

On Apr 20, 9:31 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On the rare occasions the Heathrow Express substitutes for the
Piccadilly Line, the conductors are instructed to only see you have an
Oyster card.

Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

There are no gates or validators at Heathrow or Paddington. The gates
on platforms 2-5 don't seem to accept any kind of Oyster card either.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 20, 11:54*pm, Abigail Brady wrote:
Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

No and no. So the journey is free.

I believe the publicity last time this happened implied you needed to
have a Z1-6 Travelcard (paper or Oyster) or a paper ticket, but the
Heathrow Express conductors aren't issued with Oyster card readers,
and are not instructed to even ask what's on the card.

U

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:51:24 +0100, Ian Jelf wrote:

In message
,
Mizter T writes

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

In fact, they're free to everyone.

I've always wondered about that last point. Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?

The Oyster reader on the bus is switched off. Anyone attempting to
touch in, or to show a ticket or Oyster card to the driver, is waved
away or ignored.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 21, 8:08*am, asdf wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:51:24 +0100, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message
,
Mizter T writes

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

In fact, they're free to everyone.

Not necessarily true. The long term rail replacement bus services for
the East London Line all require passengers to produce a ticket of
some sort for inspection by the driver or for swiping on the Oyster
reader - however if you use an Oyster card then you are charged a fare
of £0.00.

I'm not sure whether this has been implemented elsewhere. I don't
recall it happening on the replacement buses that covered part of the
North London Line route during its two-and-a-half month partial
closure for works on the Hampstead tunnel last autumn.


I've always wondered about that last point. * Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?

The Oyster reader on the bus is switched off. Anyone attempting to
touch in, or to show a ticket or Oyster card to the driver, is waved
away or ignored.

Except, as I say above, this isn't the case on the ELL replacement bus
services.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 20, 5:34*pm, MatthewD wrote:

On 20 Apr, 16:51, Ian Jelf wrote:

In message
,
Mizter T writes

On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:
When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.

Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

I've always wondered about that last point. * Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?

The East London Line rail replacement services charge a PAYG fare of
£0.00, as long as you have enough credit on your card for a Zone 2
tube journey.

Not true - you can use the ELL replacement buses even if your Oyster
PAYG balance is zero.


When Shepherd's Bush was closed, journeys on the 148 were
automatically refunded within a few days.

Very interesting - I hadn't come across this at all. How was this
implemented?

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 21, 12:24*am, Mr Thant
wrote:

On Apr 20, 11:54*pm, Abigail Brady wrote:

Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

No and no. So the journey is free.

I believe the publicity last time this happened implied you needed to
have a Z1-6 Travelcard (paper or Oyster) or a paper ticket, but the
Heathrow Express conductors aren't issued with Oyster card readers,
and are not instructed to even ask what's on the card.


That's not quite right. Initially the publicity stated that you needed
to have a Z1-6 Travelcard if you wanted to use HEx, and also if you
wanted to use Heathrow Connect to/from Heathrow (even if you were only
starting from Ealing Broadway for example).

However during later Picc closures and associated HEx substitution
this changed to stating that you could use Oyster PAYG so long as you
had sufficient PAYG credit on your card, or some other such ambiguous
wording.

I only realised there had been a change because I decided to go for a
ride on the HEx during one of these weekends, and armed myself with a
Travelcard - I was then surprised to see the number of people who
wielded an Oyster card when the conductor turned up. So once at the
Heathrow end I asked one of the several LU passenger assistants who
was milling about what the story was - they said Oyster PAYG could
indeed be used, and also that there was no requirement to touch-in or
out at the start/end of the HEx or HC journey [1]. I again asked the
same question at the Paddington end and got the same answer.

I then looked at the publicity and it also stated that Oyster PAYG was
acceptable. In other words the rules for 'LU passengers' using the HEx
on substitution days had indeed changed to become more flexible. I
have buried somewhere a few leaflets regarding the Picc line closures
which illustrate this change, so I guess I could scan them if I find
them soon. I'd intended to post about this here on utl, but I'm afraid
I never quite got round to it at the time.


-----
[1] With regards to Heathrow Connect, one can see the potential for
getting hit with an unresolved journey if changing between the Tube
and HC at Ealing B'way and not touching-in/out on the interchange
validators there - or likewise the potential for an unresolved journey
if entering or exiting the system at Ealing Broadway. That is, unless
the gates and readers at Ealing Broadway had been reconfigured for
that weekend so as to merely charge the minimum PAYG fare and exclude
it from being categorised as an unresolved journey, which I think it
possible - I thought of getting to Ealing B'way to test this out, but
I hadn't the time on that day.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 20, 11:54*pm, Abigail Brady wrote:

On Apr 20, 9:31 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:

On the rare occasions the Heathrow Express substitutes for the
Piccadilly Line, the conductors are instructed to only see you have an
Oyster card.

Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

As Mr Thant has said, no the HEx platforms are not gated at either
end.

I understand the plan is for Oyster PAYG to be accepted on Heathrow
Connect (but not HEx) soon. In a way this is great, and in the long
term it's useful as it smooths the way for Crossrail accepting Oyster
PAYG all the way to and from Heathrow, but one can inevitably see the
copious potential for confusion - passengers wishing to use Oyster
PAYG ending up on HEx, Heathrow Express passengers who correctly hold
separate tickets also managing to touch-in/out and ending up with
unresolved journeys. etc etc.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

"Matthew T^Dickinson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:54:33 -0700 (PDT), Abigail Brady
wrote:

Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

There are no gates or validators at Heathrow or Paddington. The gates
on platforms 2-5 don't seem to accept any kind of Oyster card either.

The latter presumably being a sensible measure to avoid arguments with pax
expecting to touch out at Reading or Bristol etc...

Paul S

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 21, 10:15*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

"Matthew T^Dickinson" wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:54:33 -0700 (PDT), Abigail Brady
wrote:

Are the HEX platforms at Paddington gated; and is there anywhere to
touch out at the Heathrow end?

There are no gates or validators at Heathrow or Paddington. The gates
on platforms 2-5 don't seem to accept any kind of Oyster card either.

The latter presumably being a sensible measure to avoid arguments with pax
expecting to touch out at Reading or Bristol etc...


Of course there's already some potential for such things to happen
when starting a journey at Euston (suburban platforms), Kings Cross
(suburban), Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street, as well as pax from
Paddington going beyond West Drayton on Thames Valley stoppers, plus
all the central London Thameslink stations as well [1].

And there'll obviously be plenty more opportunities for such things to
happen once Oyster PAYG on NR is introduced - one can inevitably,
unfortunately, see fare evaders willing to take the £5 unresolved
journey charge (as applies at NR termini stations) to get through the
gates at termini stations and then travelling out to gateless stations
in the hope that they won't encounter a ticket check en-route. I'm
certain this has been one of the TOCs concerns with regards to Oyster
PAYG - unlike LU, they do not benefit from having a more or less
comprehensively gated network of course.


-----
[1] Re Thameslink at London Bridge - none of the gates are currently
set-up to use Oyster PAYG, instead there are readers on the Thameslink
platforms that a passenger must use (on platform posters explain
this), and then at the gates you need to explain yourself to the
gateline staff before they'll let you though. Not an ideal
arrangement, but I'd say it's far preferable to hordes of folk
erroneously thinking they can use Oyster PAYG for all suburban London
journeys from London Bridge and then ending up with unresolved
journeys, plus also effectively travelling ticketless and so being
liable to penalty fares as well.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

Ian Jelf wrote in news:vRd
:

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

I've always wondered about that last point. Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?

It seems a little random. I had to go to Walthamstow a few weeks ago when
the Victoria line was closed. I took the Picc line to Finsbury Park, from
where there was a replacement bus. At Finsbury Park I asked if I should
touch out (there are no gates, just an Oyster pad on the wall) and I was
told not to.

At Walthamstow, the station was closed and locked, so no chance of touching
out, and I got charged for an unresolved journey. I dare say I could have
complained, but life is too short.

Peter

--
Peter Campbell Smith ~ London ~ pjcs00 (a) gmail.com

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 21, 11:24*am, Peter Campbell Smith
wrote:

Ian Jelf wrote:

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

I've always wondered about that last point. * Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?

It seems a little random. *I had to go to Walthamstow a few weeks ago when
the Victoria line was closed. *I took the Picc line to Finsbury Park, from
where there was a replacement bus. *At Finsbury Park I asked if I should
touch out (there are no gates, just an Oyster pad on the wall) and I was
told not to.

At Walthamstow, the station was closed and locked, so no chance of touching
out, and I got charged for an unresolved journey. *I dare say I could have
complained, but life is too short.


Unfortunately you were given incorrect information at Finsbury Park.
You should touch-in and out as normal. As Paul Corfield explains
upthread, if you are doing a journey that entails Tube - replacement
bus - back on the Tube, then the system should be set up to handle
this, and you should only be charged for one journey (even though you
exit and re-enter the system).

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

In message
,
Mizter T writes
Unfortunately you were given incorrect information at Finsbury Park

And that is a *big* problem. I'm amazed at how few staff seem to
understand what PAYG *is*. I've encountered this at Blackfriars NR and
Fenchurch Street NR (at both of which locations NR staff gave me what
turned out to be wrong information but didn't really grasp what I was
asking).

--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 21, 1:14*pm, Ian Jelf wrote:

In message
,
Mizter T writes

Unfortunately you were given incorrect information at Finsbury Park

And that is a *big* problem. * I'm amazed at how few staff seem to
understand what PAYG *is*. * I've encountered this at Blackfriars NR and
Fenchurch Street NR (at both of which locations NR staff gave me what
turned out to be wrong information but didn't really grasp what I was
asking).

Though it sounds as though the staff Peter Campbell Smith encountered
were LU bods - he was after all emerging from the Piccadilly line at
Finsbury Park. Which I suppose makes it worse.

With regards to your point, I don't think I've ever asked that many
questions of NR staff about Oyster PAYG because being a know-it-all,
I , er, know-it all. But unfortunately I'm not at all surprised to
hear what you say. Training needs to be sorted out for NR staff before
Oyster PAYG goes live across the whole of NR in London. Though if that
actually happens, I bet it'd be cursory at best.

I did encounter a guard on the Southern service up from Clapham Jn
(zone 2) up the WLL to Harrow & Wealdstone (zone 5) who didn't seem
like he got it either - I had a zones 2&3 Travelcard on my Oyster, and
so was (automatically) using PAYG to extend the journey across zones 4
and 5. The guard didn't have an Oyster reader on him and so asked me
what zones were on my Oyster card (i.e. what Travelcard zones) - a bit
surprising in itself as one could legitimately be using 'pure' PAYG
for this journey. However I said "zones 2&3", he paused as he digested
this, before I then added "but I'm using PAYG to extend the journey up
to Harrow" which appeared to completely bamboozle him and he shuffled
off looking somewhat confused.

I wasn't terribly impressed - I should however add that I remember
reading an account here from when PAYG went live on this route and the
poster said they'd found the Southern guard to be completely on top of
it all.

I'd be interested to hear what misinformation you were given at
Blackfriars and Fenchurch Street NR stations if you can remember it?

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On 21 Apr, 08:58, Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 20, 5:34*pm, MatthewD wrote:



On 20 Apr, 16:51, Ian Jelf wrote:

In message
,
Mizter T writes

On Apr 19, 8:06*pm, martin wrote:
When a tube station or line is closed for planned work (or there's
other unplanned disruption), and TfL advise that tube tickets will be
accepted on local buses, how does the Oyster PAYG system cope?

Nothing changes.

Wood Green tube's closed this weekend, so instead of walking to the
station, I'm taking a bus to Turnpike Lane. While the cost of two PAYG
singles already take me beyond the z1-3 cap (with a 16-25 railcard),
I'm curious to know what would happen to the bus fare I didn't reach
the cap.

In truth I'd think that trying to devise a procedure whereby
passengers were not charged for travelling on regular local bus
services in such situations would be nightmarishly complex and fraught
with untold potential problems.

Rail replacement bus services are however effectively free to holders
of Oyster cards.

I've always wondered about that last point. * Do you touch in at all
(and the touch in is "ignored" by the system) or are you not required to
touch in at all?

The East London Line rail replacement services charge a PAYG fare of
£0.00, as long as you have enough credit on your card for a Zone 2
tube journey.

Not true - you can use the ELL replacement buses even if your Oyster
PAYG balance is zero.



When Shepherd's Bush was closed, journeys on the 148 were
automatically refunded within a few days.

Very interesting - I hadn't come across this at all. How was this
implemented?

Journey histories were monitored by Oystercard Admin for validations
on route 148 occuring next to a validation at Holland Park. When this
was detected a single bus jourmey refund was generated to be credited
at the customer's most used gateline within a few days.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

In message
,
Mizter T writes

On Apr 21, 1:14*pm, Ian Jelf wrote:

In message
,
Mizter T writes

Unfortunately you were given incorrect information at Finsbury Park

And that is a *big* problem. * I'm amazed at how few staff seem to
understand what PAYG *is*. * I've encountered this at Blackfriars NR and
Fenchurch Street NR (at both of which locations NR staff gave me what
turned out to be wrong information but didn't really grasp what I was
asking).

Though it sounds as though the staff Peter Campbell Smith encountered
were LU bods - he was after all emerging from the Piccadilly line at
Finsbury Park. Which I suppose makes it worse.

I also had a problem with an Oyster question with an LU member of staff
but for the life of me I can't remember what it was. I tried to
earlier when I posted the original message as I wanted to illustrate
that it wasn't an NR-only problem.

Getting old. Grey cells must be going....... :-)

Snip


I'd be interested to hear what misinformation you were given at
Blackfriars and Fenchurch Street NR stations if you can remember it?

Both concerned validity. I don't have the PAYG validity on NR map in
my head (and seldom use NR in London). On these two occasions, though,
that was the best solution at short notice and asked before embarking on
a journey of PAYG was valid.

Blackfriars: I asked if PAYG was valid on Thamselink (well, you know
what I mean) for a journey to Elephant & Castle (I was told it wasn't,
finding out later that it would have been).

Fenchurch Street: I asked if PAYG was valid for a journey to Limehouse
(the guy at the barrier looked at me with a degree of uncertainty that
suggested whatever he said wouldn't have much basis in fact).
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:06:28 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

I'm
certain this has been one of the TOCs concerns with regards to Oyster
PAYG - unlike LU, they do not benefit from having a more or less
comprehensively gated network of course.

Which is interesting, as you can *already* do it with any paper
Travelcard - or indeed a single to the first stop.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Underground tickets will be accepted on local bus routes"
 

On Apr 21, 8:41*pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:06:28 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T

wrote:
I'm
certain this has been one of the TOCs concerns with regards to Oyster
PAYG - unlike LU, they do not benefit from having a more or less
comprehensively gated network of course.

Which is interesting, as you can *already* do it with any paper
Travelcard - or indeed a single to the first stop.

I've commented many times on the different assumption of guilt between
PAYG and travelcards. I've never understood it.