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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
How about spending some of the money that is currently being extorted
from car drivers on something completely radical like building new underground roads similar to the ones in Bruges Belgium. We are constantly being stuffed for more any more cash to subsidize harebrained council schemes none of which improve our lives at all. Surely if engineers 120 years ago can build the London underground railway system, we in the 21st century can build an underground road system. For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey to that city. We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13 miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk. No Stress at all. Compare this with a trip to London where parking meters earn more that a worker's minimum hourly wage and everything is designed to give the maximum stress and the minimum value. We need some new thinking on this. Public transport is not the answer, and not everyone can cycle to work. Jeff |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Robin May" wrote in message ... I think something altogether less radical would be much more helpful. How about Newham council spending money on resurfacing **** roads (like the road to my house, which seems to be about one step above a dirt track) and fixing potholes, rather than using it to create completely new road hazards (speed bumps) that damage cars and make roads much more difficult to cycle along. Exactly - and if we must have so many 'traffic-calming' installations in this country, how about making them from good old kerbstones and asphalt, instead of bloody expensive brick paviours with fancy raised garden beds. Where I live there are a number of locations where a busy two-lane main road has been narrowed to a single lane with chicanes and obstacles (either on both sides or by directing the traffic from one direction into the opposite traffic flow). These so-called calming measures may work effectively when there is a heavy traffic flow during the day but at other times they are positively inviting head-on collisions, as boy racers speed through the constriction at 40mph+ during the evenings and at weekends, forcing other motorists, cyclists and pedestrians to dive for cover. Have any of these traffic planners ever been out to observe the potential carnage that they are inflicting upon road users? Even the construction companies installing them reckon that they are lethal and more dangerous than installing simple, cheap speed humps. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
How about spending some of the money that is currently being extorted
from car drivers on something completely radical like building new underground roads similar to the ones in Bruges Belgium. We are constantly being stuffed for more any more cash to subsidize harebrained council schemes none of which improve our lives at all. Surely if engineers 120 years ago can build the London underground railway system, we in the 21st century can build an underground road system. For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey to that city. We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13 miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk. No Stress at all. Compare this with a trip to London where parking meters earn more that a worker's minimum hourly wage and everything is designed to give the maximum stress and the minimum value. We need some new thinking on this. Public transport is not the answer, and not everyone can cycle to work. Jeff Hello, Jeff. As a reasonably frequent visitor to Brugge, I think your recollection is a little incorrect. The car park you describe is in the T'zand square. It is a fairly normal underground car park as seen elsewhere in the world including London. The car park is very conveniently located, being only a five minute walk from the city centre, but is not anything special. The only difference is that the entrance and exit into the car park is from the sides of a fairly short 250 metre road tunnel which passes under the T'zand square. The entrances and exits to the car park have very sharp curves indeed! Buster |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Buster wrote: How about spending some of the money that is currently being extorted from car drivers on something completely radical like building new underground roads similar to the ones in Bruges Belgium. Or investing more in a good reliable PT system. For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey to that city. We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13 miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk. No Stress at all. None? You jest. Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it is likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. Just think, not having to queue at the ferry port or having to drive. You even admit the crossing is less than enjoyable. Instead, you could relax with a book and a meal, or enjoy a snooze. We need some new thinking on this. Public transport is not the answer, It goes towards providing it. More roads don't. and not everyone can cycle to work. Many more can. They could try walking too. Did you note the number of cycles in Bruges, and how they could use one-way streets in the opposite direction to motor vehicles? And did you see all the bike racks - thousands outside the railway station where buses and trains meet each other. And did you see the number of buses and the cheap all-town daily tickets or the low cost all Belgium train passes? As a reasonably frequent visitor to Brugge, I think your recollection is a little incorrect. The car park you describe is in the T'zand square. It is a fairly normal underground car park as seen elsewhere in the world including London. The car park is very conveniently located, being only a five minute walk from the city centre, but is not anything special. Quite. John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"JohnB" wrote in message ... Buster wrote: How about spending some of the money that is currently being extorted from car drivers on something completely radical like building new underground roads similar to the ones in Bruges Belgium. Or investing more in a good reliable PT system. For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey to that city. We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13 miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk. No Stress at all. None? You jest. Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it is likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. Just think of the 40 mile drive to find the nearest open station, the £12 a day parking when there, the 2 hour wait on a deserted ice cold platform for the delayed intercity to get to London that costs twice as much as Eurostar and arrives at the other side of London lugging your bags down onto the underground (now rush hour after the delay). Ah how pleasant and I still haven't made it to the station to get the Eurostar. As the 40 miles I would need to drive (due to all the local stations being closed due to track maintenance) is only a few miles shorter than I would need to get to a port I don't see me letting the train cause the strain. Though I'm less than 40 miles from an airport so I would hop on a flight for 1/2 the cost of a train fare to London and use the remaining 1/2 to hire a car for the time I'm over there. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it is likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. Just think, not having to queue at the ferry port or having to drive. That ignores the pleasure you would get from getting to the Eurostar terminal on public transport with two children and assorted luggage in tow, repeating that in Brussels in order to travel BACKWARDS to Bruges. Adding all the cost together will put as smile on your 'flexible friend' but not your face. Driving is still a pleasure to few perverted people, but not for long if the likes of John B. have their way ! Regards, Martin |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
JohnB writes:
Buster wrote: For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey to that city. We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13 miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk. No Stress at all. None? You jest. Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it is likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. Just think, not having to queue at the ferry port or having to drive. You even admit the crossing is less than enjoyable. Instead, you could relax with a book and a meal, or enjoy a snooze. From your self-centered point of view, yes. But the OP could have been carrying a substantial amount of luggage (or intending to carry a substantial amount - e.g. beer - back), been travelling as a large group, or with babies or small children. He could also have decided to travel at short notice, or started from somewhere well outside London. Any of those factors could make train journeys and multiple interchanges totally impractical, prohibitively expensive or just far too much trouble. We need some new thinking on this. Public transport is not the answer, It goes towards providing it. More roads don't. It doesn't provide anything for those who can't use it, for whatever reason. -- Jonathan Marten, SCM Team Engineer VSP Bracknell, UK Sun Microsystems "Progress is not expedited by frequent requests for progress reports" |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Martin²" wrote in message ... Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it is likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. Just think, not having to queue at the ferry port or having to drive. That ignores the pleasure you would get from getting to the Eurostar terminal on public transport with two children and assorted luggage in tow Isn't it sad that it's often quicker and almost always cheaper to fly to Paris than take the train to London. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Jonathan Marten - Volume Systems Products UK wrote: JohnB writes: Buster wrote: For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey to that city. We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13 miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk. No Stress at all. None? You jest. Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it is likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. Just think, not having to queue at the ferry port or having to drive. You even admit the crossing is less than enjoyable. Instead, you could relax with a book and a meal, or enjoy a snooze. From your self-centered point of view, yes. But the OP could have been carrying a substantial amount of luggage (or intending to carry a substantial amount - e.g. beer - back), been travelling as a large group, or with babies or small children. He could also have decided to travel at short notice, or started from somewhere well outside London. Well there you are then. I make the journey several times a year, usually with wife and four children, two still of primary school age. We regularly stay in Bruges. Oh, and I usually book only few days before travelling. And no, I don't live in London. and yes I travel from a rural station. Any of those factors could make train journeys and multiple interchanges totally impractical, prohibitively expensive or just far too much trouble. They could in *your* "self-centred point of view" but somehow in mine they don't. Perhaps its something with not having such a closed mind. It doesn't provide anything for those who can't use it, for whatever reason. Neither for those who refuse to look at possible alternatives. John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Depresion wrote: "Martin2" wrote in message ... Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it is likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. Just think, not having to queue at the ferry port or having to drive. That ignores the pleasure you would get from getting to the Eurostar terminal on public transport with two children and assorted luggage in tow Isn't it sad that it's often quicker and almost always cheaper to fly to Paris than take the train to London. It is. But flying to Paris doesn't get you to Bruges :-( And anyway, Paris is French so that's even more reason not to go there. John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Depresion wrote: "JohnB" wrote in message ... Buster wrote: How about spending some of the money that is currently being extorted from car drivers on something completely radical like building new underground roads similar to the ones in Bruges Belgium. Or investing more in a good reliable PT system. For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey to that city. We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13 miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk. No Stress at all. None? You jest. Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it is likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. .....I'm less than 40 miles from an airport so I would hop on a flight for 1/2 the cost of a train fare to London and use the remaining 1/2 to hire a car for the time I'm over there. So where is the airport in Bruges and what's the flight fare? John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Robert Woolley wrote:
On 8 Oct 2003 15:54:35 -0700, (Jeff Lewis UK) wrote: We need some new thinking on this. Public transport is not the answer, and not everyone can cycle to work. Marvellous. So once you've built these underground roads, where are you going to park the cars? Underground car parks? -- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect." |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Jeff Lewis UK" wrote in message om... How about spending some of the money that is currently being extorted from car drivers on something completely radical like building new underground roads similar to the ones in Bruges Belgium. We are constantly being stuffed for more any more cash to subsidize harebrained council schemes none of which improve our lives at all. Surely if engineers 120 years ago can build the London underground railway system, we in the 21st century can build an underground road system. For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey to that city. We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13 miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk. No Stress at all. Compare this with a trip to London where parking meters earn more that a worker's minimum hourly wage and everything is designed to give the maximum stress and the minimum value. We need some new thinking on this. Public transport is not the answer, and not everyone can cycle to work. No you are wrong. Bruges definately cannot be compared to London. The problem is that even if we did want to build an underground motorway network for London, we would have to build so many roads to satisfy demand that they would basically have to be everywhere at extreme cost (probably over £100 billion). Undergound roads are dangerous, difficult to ventilate and have much lower capacity than a tube line, and besides, London is far too big to have just one central car park - that only works in cities where everything is within walking distance of each other. The tube is the only viable transport option for a large city. Even the car-loving Americans know this - New York city has no underground motorways in the centre, but does have an extensive subway system. There are possible options to help with congestion such as overpasses or underpasses at critical junctions (like on the A40), but a new road building scheme would be very expensive and in the long run wouldn't really help, as people just adapt their commuting patterns. Jeff |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"JohnB" wrote in message ... So where is the airport in Bruges and what's the flight fare? The airport is "Ostend Bruges International Airport" about 15 - 20 miles out (depending on where in Bruges you are), not far in a hire car, Ryanair is offering it for 99p out and £9.99 return flying out on a Wed and back the following Fri or 99p each way on the Thur plus taxes brings it to a total of £22.83 per person. (I probably wouldn't fly with them but they have an easy booking service for price checks.) |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"JohnB" wrote in message ... Depresion wrote: "Martin2" wrote in message ... Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it is likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. Just think, not having to queue at the ferry port or having to drive. That ignores the pleasure you would get from getting to the Eurostar terminal on public transport with two children and assorted luggage in tow Isn't it sad that it's often quicker and almost always cheaper to fly to Paris than take the train to London. It is. But flying to Paris doesn't get you to Bruges :-( No but I've never flown to Bruges it was just an example. And anyway, Paris is French so that's even more reason not to go there. Good point unless you have to go then don't bother it's rather like London be people are rude to you in a different language. ;) |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
. .. Have any of these traffic planners ever been out to observe the potential carnage that they are inflicting upon road users? Even the construction companies installing them reckon that they are lethal and more dangerous than installing simple, cheap speed humps. What would the construction companies know? Every traffic measure is monitored by the responsible authority six months before and after its installation. If they were lethal, they would not be still installing them. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Boston, whose metrolpolitan area admittedly contain less people than
London (~2m I think) has undertaken a project locally called the Big Dig to create a set of road tunnels under part of the city. (www.bigdig.com). Apparently its going to be very good but has caused them no end of chaos for the last few years and in terms of cost to the public purse its second only to a big big dam project in China on a global basis - would you be willing to foot a similar bill in London ? On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:49:56 +0000 (UTC), "Oliver Keating" wrote: "Jeff Lewis UK" wrote in message . com... How about spending some of the money that is currently being extorted from car drivers on something completely radical like building new underground roads similar to the ones in Bruges Belgium. We are constantly being stuffed for more any more cash to subsidize harebrained council schemes none of which improve our lives at all. Surely if engineers 120 years ago can build the London underground railway system, we in the 21st century can build an underground road system. For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey to that city. We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13 miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk. No Stress at all. Compare this with a trip to London where parking meters earn more that a worker's minimum hourly wage and everything is designed to give the maximum stress and the minimum value. We need some new thinking on this. Public transport is not the answer, and not everyone can cycle to work. No you are wrong. Bruges definately cannot be compared to London. The problem is that even if we did want to build an underground motorway network for London, we would have to build so many roads to satisfy demand that they would basically have to be everywhere at extreme cost (probably over £100 billion). Undergound roads are dangerous, difficult to ventilate and have much lower capacity than a tube line, and besides, London is far too big to have just one central car park - that only works in cities where everything is within walking distance of each other. The tube is the only viable transport option for a large city. Even the car-loving Americans know this - New York city has no underground motorways in the centre, but does have an extensive subway system. There are possible options to help with congestion such as overpasses or underpasses at critical junctions (like on the A40), but a new road building scheme would be very expensive and in the long run wouldn't really help, as people just adapt their commuting patterns. Jeff |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Robert Woolley" wrote in message ... On 8 Oct 2003 15:54:35 -0700, (Jeff Lewis UK) wrote: "Underground roads for London" is not new thinking - you'd find this if you'd bothered to look. But it is thinking that's not been tried. (Though I think it would be rather unfeasible) |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"John Rowland" wrote in message ... Every traffic measure is monitored by the responsible authority six months before and after its installation. If they were lethal, they would not be still installing them. Really, John? Just what does this "monitoring" consist of? Checking traffic volumes electronically or actually spending a day (or more) physically observing the way in which drivers are using the modified carriageway? I have a view of the site from my window and have *never* seen anyone monitoring traffic flows during the working day. I have little doubt that no such "monitoring" has occurred at my local installation, which consists of four reductions in carriageway width from two lanes to a single lane within 200 yards (narrowed equally on both sides, so that traffic passes through in the centre of the carriageway). Half an hour observing would have revealed that, despite the traffic flow priority signs, motorists hurtle through the chicanes at excessive speeds with scant regard to oncoming vehicles with priority. Originally there was a raised, paved area at the narrowest point of each chicane and they were relatively effective - recently they have removed the raised area because it was grounding ambulances and now the installation is ineffective and downright dangerous. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
JohnB writes:
Well there you are then. I make the journey several times a year, usually with wife and four children, two still of primary school age. We regularly stay in Bruges. Oh, and I usually book only few days before travelling. Good heavens - you can afford to pay the extortionate Eurostar prices for six people, plus train fare from Hampshire for the same, on a regular basis. It must be nice to have so much money to spare. -- Jonathan Marten, SCM Team Engineer VSP Bracknell, UK Sun Microsystems "Progress is not expedited by frequent requests for progress reports" |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:49:56 +0000 (UTC), "Oliver Keating"
wrote: The tube is the only viable transport option for a large city. Even the car-loving Americans know this - New York city has no underground motorways in the centre, but does have an extensive subway system. The only example I can think of where underground motorways have been built on a big scale recently in a major city is the Boston 'big dig', which has itself been fraught with problems, and is in a city which remains very dependent on public transport in the centre (somebody else has made the same point since I drafted this message). The original poster said that 'public transport is not the answer' - but the fact is that most journeys into Central London are by public transport. Like many car owners in London, I usually leave my car at home or at a tube station somewhere when I'm going into the centre. Better to concentrate investment in roads further out of London where people are more likely to use their cars Martin |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Depresion wrote: "Martin2" wrote in message ... Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it is likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. Just think, not having to queue at the ferry port or having to drive. That ignores the pleasure you would get from getting to the Eurostar terminal on public transport with two children and assorted luggage in tow Isn't it sad that it's often quicker and almost always cheaper to fly to Paris than take the train to London. The fare from my local station in Hampshire to London, 2 adults 4 children is £51.50. How can I get to Paris for less? John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"JohnB" wrote in message ... Depresion wrote: "Martin2" wrote in message ... Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it is likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. Just think, not having to queue at the ferry port or having to drive. That ignores the pleasure you would get from getting to the Eurostar terminal on public transport with two children and assorted luggage in tow Isn't it sad that it's often quicker and almost always cheaper to fly to Paris than take the train to London. The fare from my local station in Hampshire to London, 2 adults 4 children is £51.50. How can I get to Paris for less? There fair from my local station (when it reopens) starts from about £70 per person if I book well in advance don't mind not arriving till the mid afternoon (if the trains are on time) and doesn't garnetee a seat. That's a lot more than a return flight to Paris from my local airport. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Depresion wrote: "JohnB" wrote in message ... So where is the airport in Bruges and what's the flight fare? The airport is "Ostend Bruges International Airport" about 15 - 20 miles out (depending on where in Bruges you are), not far in a hire car, Ryanair is offering it for 99p out and £9.99 return flying out on a Wed and back the following Fri or 99p each way on the Thur plus taxes brings it to a total of £22.83 per person. (I probably wouldn't fly with them but they have an easy booking service for price checks.) London - any station in Belgium is £159 for 2 adults 4 children, an average of £26.50. I also don't need to book 14 days in advance. From home it takes not much more than 4 hours and costs a total of 210.50 with the easy crossing of concourses in Waterloo and Brussels and average of just £35 each return. Stansted is a four hour train journey to start with and would be £80 return for the 6 of us, so total fare of £228.98 is higher and journey time would be 50% plus longer and there would be the hassle of crossing London and getting from Ostend/Bruges airport to our chosen destination. I am aware that air and car travel can sometimes be better in certain circumstances, but in this case its not. John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Jonathan Marten - Volume Systems Products UK wrote: JohnB writes: Well there you are then. I make the journey several times a year, usually with wife and four children, two still of primary school age. We regularly stay in Bruges. Oh, and I usually book only few days before travelling. Good heavens - you can afford to pay the extortionate Eurostar prices for six people, plus train fare from Hampshire for the same, on a regular basis. It must be nice to have so much money to spare. I wouldn't call £35 per head return to any station in Belgium extortionate. So now please tell me how I can do it cheaper, in the same time, and in the same degree of comfort. John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Jonathan Marten - Volume Systems Products UK" wrote in message ... It must be nice to have so much money to spare. It is. Perhaps you too could reduce the amount you spend on the car per year by 1000s |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Depresion" wrote in message ... There fair from my local station (when it reopens) starts from about £70 per person if I book well in advance don't mind not arriving till the mid afternoon (if the trains are on time) and doesn't garnetee a seat. That's a lot more than a return flight to Paris from my local airport. Thats rubbish. Perhaps you have easyjet flights, booked well in advance at an inconvenient hours. But, try it at a weekend and it'll be 70 quid if you book well in advance in winter. OTOH business hours flights on BA will cost over £200 Also: train fares. Choose the journeys you say, and I'd guess you can get to london from scotland for less than 40 quid. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"W K" wrote in message ... "Depresion" wrote in message ... There fair from my local station (when it reopens) starts from about £70 per person if I book well in advance don't mind not arriving till the mid afternoon (if the trains are on time) and doesn't garnetee a seat. That's a lot more than a return flight to Paris from my local airport. Thats rubbish. Perhaps you have easyjet flights, booked well in advance at an inconvenient hours. But, try it at a weekend and it'll be 70 quid if you book well in advance in winter. OTOH business hours flights on BA will cost over £200 Why would I fly BA if I can get flights cheaper? That's like saying I can book tickets by rail for £70 but Would have to pay £210 for 1st class. I'd be stung for £145 for the cheapest business hours trains. Unfortunately I can't get the BA website to give prices for any dates it just sits at: "Price and availability information is being gathered. In a moment, you will be able to explore your options, then book your tickets." Also: train fares. Choose the journeys you say, and I'd guess you can get to london from scotland for less than 40 quid. I'm not in Scotland and booking well in advance I can't get tickets for less than £70 on the trains (booking in advance through my local station) lord help me should I want an open return as the price jumps to £145 and still no guarantee of a seat. (Ok to I could actually get a ticket for just under £50 if I were happy to change twice and more than double the jury time, that would make it only singly more expensive than flying to Paris). I really shouldn't be phoning the station and looking on trainline I have other things to do, sadly this is actually more interesting.) |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Grant Mason" wrote in message ... "W K" wrote in message Thats rubbish. Perhaps you have easyjet flights, booked well in advance at an inconvenient hours. But, try it at a weekend and it'll be 70 quid if you book well in advance in winter. Next weekend it's £57 inc taxes Heathrow to Paris on bmi. Lucky you. OTOH business hours flights on BA will cost over £200 Heathrow to Paris next week on bmi in business hours. £63 inc taxes. Gatwick to Paris next week on BA in business hours. £92 inc taxes. "business hours" meaning going there in time to get some work done, rather than "in business hours" which could mean arriving late afternoon. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Depresion" wrote in message ... "W K" wrote in message ... "Depresion" wrote in message ... There fair from my local station (when it reopens) starts from about £70 per person if I book well in advance don't mind not arriving till the mid afternoon (if the trains are on time) and doesn't garnetee a seat. That's a lot more than a return flight to Paris from my local airport. Thats rubbish. Perhaps you have easyjet flights, booked well in advance at an inconvenient hours. But, try it at a weekend and it'll be 70 quid if you book well in advance in winter. OTOH business hours flights on BA will cost over £200 Why would I fly BA if I can get flights cheaper? Because there aren't many easyjet ones. So you have more flexibility, can cancel etc. So if you arrive 38 minutes ahead of the flight you might get on. I'd be stung for £145 for the cheapest business hours trains. Aren't you in the north west somewhere? you can get them for less. Also: train fares. Choose the journeys you say, and I'd guess you can get to london from scotland for less than 40 quid. I'm not in Scotland and booking well in advance I can't get tickets for less than £70 on the trains (booking in advance through my local station) Try the alternatives. me should I want an open return as the price jumps to £145 and still no Whatever you do, don't compare _that_ to easyjet. guarantee of a seat. should be able to. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"W K" wrote in message ... "Depresion" wrote in message ... "W K" wrote in message ... "Depresion" wrote in message ... There fair from my local station (when it reopens) starts from about £70 per person if I book well in advance don't mind not arriving till the mid afternoon (if the trains are on time) and doesn't garnetee a seat. That's a lot more than a return flight to Paris from my local airport. Thats rubbish. Perhaps you have easyjet flights, booked well in advance at an inconvenient hours. But, try it at a weekend and it'll be 70 quid if you book well in advance in winter. OTOH business hours flights on BA will cost over £200 Why would I fly BA if I can get flights cheaper? Because there aren't many easyjet ones. So you have more flexibility, can cancel etc. So if you arrive 38 minutes ahead of the flight you might get on. I'd be stung for £145 for the cheapest business hours trains. Aren't you in the north west somewhere? you can get them for less. Not according to the booking office at my station or trainline, if you know someone who can beet there prices the please tell me as It's quite obvious that both of them are overcharging. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Grant Mason" wrote in message ... "W K" wrote in message "Grant Mason" wrote in message ... Heathrow to Paris next week on bmi in business hours. £63 inc taxes. Gatwick to Paris next week on BA in business hours. £92 inc taxes. "business hours" meaning going there in time to get some work done, rather than "in business hours" which could mean arriving late afternoon. Both flights are early AM departs. Still lucky you. Thats rubbish. was ********. Quelle surprise. What sort of pathetic snipping is that? Removed from a different part of the thread, not just out of context, but inappropriately placed. If thats your level I could put me: "grass is green" ... you:"********" It was (I believe) trying to compare flights from possibly liverpool to trains to london. Actual statement being that -70 quid is a lot more than the flight to paris. H-P at 63 quid would seem a good deal, but 70 quid is hardly "a lot more" |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Depresion" wrote in message ... I'd be stung for £145 for the cheapest business hours trains. Aren't you in the north west somewhere? you can get them for less. Not according to the booking office at my station or trainline, if you know someone who can beet there prices the please tell me as It's quite obvious that both of them are overcharging. It depends where you are going from. A clue as to which stations you could drive to would be useful. Theres a very early one you can pick up from Warrington or crewe, that'll be at least 40 less. If you can be rigid on return times at approx 18:20 + (or even before), Then even with an expensive outbound single, you can get a dead cheap return leg (16 quid?) Making the whole thing ~80 or 90. I know thats not great, but its a market driven thing. They can charge 145 quid and fill the train. Would you really want state intervention to force that price down? The bugger would be packed! |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"W K" wrote in message ... I know thats not great, but its a market driven thing. They can charge 145 quid and fill the train. Would you really want state intervention to force that price down? The bugger would be packed! They are bad enough as it is, without more people on them but I still find it odd that I can get to Paris for a meeting cheaper than I can to London. Then again there is more competition when flying than there is taking the train. |
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