| Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
[original thread on uk.raiwlay]
[x-posted to uk.transport.london] embers25 wrote: SouthEastern have finally revealed the times and supplements for their trial HS1 service starting on June 29th. http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/94 Thanks for the heads up. For the record, I'll just copy a bit of that press release below: ---quote--- Southeastern today confirmed that a limited high speed ‘preview’ service will begin on the 29 June. The preview service will run on High Speed 1 between Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International and St Pancras International from Monday to Friday.The preview service will offer passengers the chance to experience what the UK’s first high speed service will be like when it is fully introduced on 13 December. The preview services will also allow Southeastern to continue testing, training, adjust to passenger feedback and ensure that the full introduction of the service runs smoothly. The high speed service will radically improve travel times for many passengers, using the High Speed 1. Journey times from Ashford International to London will be just 37 minutes and from Ebbsfleet International the journey will take just 17 minutes. The preview service will run three morning peak services from Ashford International to St Pancras International and three peak services in the evening peak. Trains from Ebbsfleet International will see four morning peak services to St Pancras International and six peak services back in the evening peak. Throughout the day services will run twice hourly between Ebbsfleet International and St Pancras International. The full timetable can be seen below. ---/quote--- So, they'll only be offering peak time trains from Ashford during this preview service, but there'll be an all day half-hourly service from Ebbsfleet. A few other things I noted - "all first class ticket holders are able to travel on the high speed service for no extra cost". Also, AIUI the class 395 trains are classless. Southeastern have decided to use the term "Mainline" to differentiate their regular services from the High-speed service - previously many observers here seem to have copied the French terminology by speaking of "Classic" lines. And lastly the timetable notes a "Daylight HS1 track inspection" period around noon, though then goes on to say that "Currently track engineers inspect high speed infrastructure during daylight hours. This is being reviews for the start of the full service in December 2009." I hadn't entirely realised there was an LGV style 'black-out' period during the day (though that's not the right term but I forget the correct one) on HS1 at the moment. Supplements seem quite hefty but I get the impression when the real service kicks in they will be even higher. The formula for the 'via HS1' fares premium is no secret, it's published in the Southeastern franchise documents. The Ashford supplement for the preview service is the same as for the full service and is in line with this formula. |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
Mizter T wrote:
[original thread on uk.raiwlay] [x-posted to uk.transport.london] embers25 wrote: SouthEastern have finally revealed the times and supplements for their trial HS1 service starting on June 29th. snipped Supplements seem quite hefty but I get the impression when the real service kicks in they will be even higher. The formula for the 'via HS1' fares premium is no secret, it's published in the Southeastern franchise documents. The Ashford supplement for the preview service is the same as for the full service and is in line with this formula. Which has been discussed here a number of times, and has been calculated to be about +10% for the longest journeys. Doesn't seem to stop people exaggerating it at every chance though... Paul |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On Jun 1, 11:54*am, Mizter T wrote:
And lastly the timetable notes a "Daylight HS1 track inspection" period around noon, though then goes on to say that "Currently track engineers inspect high speed infrastructure during daylight hours. This is being reviews for the start of the full service in December 2009." Interesting. Presumably this is currently fitted around 'white periods' on the LGV Nord. |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
In message
, at 03:54:07 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked: So, they'll only be offering peak time trains from Ashford during this preview service, but there'll be an all day half-hourly service from Ebbsfleet. Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London. I'd certainly give that try if I lived nearby on the M25. Ashford is a run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a premium service outside commuter hours. A few other things I noted - "all first class ticket holders are able to travel on the high speed service for no extra cost". Also, AIUI the class 395 trains are classless. Maybe the First Class premium is higher than the HS1 premium (Ashford's FDR is more than twice the price of a SDR). The trip is short enough that they couldn't serve a decent breakfast. Speaking of which, does anyone know what catering they *are* providing on these trains? -- Roland Perry |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On Jun 1, 11:54 am, Mizter T wrote:
[original thread on uk.raiwlay] [x-posted to uk.transport.london] embers25 wrote: SouthEastern have finally revealed the times and supplements for their trial HS1 service starting on June 29th. http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/94 Thanks for the heads up. For the record, I'll just copy a bit of that press release below: ---quote--- Southeastern today confirmed that a limited high speed ‘preview’ service will begin on the 29 June. The preview service will run on High Speed 1 between Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International and St Pancras International from Monday to Friday.The preview service will offer passengers the chance to experience what the UK’s first high speed service will be like when it is fully introduced on 13 December. The preview services will also allow Southeastern to continue testing, training, adjust to passenger feedback and ensure that the full introduction of the service runs smoothly. The high speed service will radically improve travel times for many passengers, using the High Speed 1. Journey times from Ashford International to London will be just 37 minutes and from Ebbsfleet International the journey will take just 17 minutes. The preview service will run three morning peak services from Ashford International to St Pancras International and three peak services in the evening peak. Trains from Ebbsfleet International will see four morning peak services to St Pancras International and six peak services back in the evening peak. Throughout the day services will run twice hourly between Ebbsfleet International and St Pancras International. The full timetable can be seen below. ---/quote--- So, they'll only be offering peak time trains from Ashford during this preview service, but there'll be an all day half-hourly service from Ebbsfleet. A few other things I noted - "all first class ticket holders are able to travel on the high speed service for no extra cost". Also, AIUI the class 395 trains are classless. Southeastern have decided to use the term "Mainline" to differentiate their regular services from the High-speed service - previously many observers here seem to have copied the French terminology by speaking of "Classic" lines. And lastly the timetable notes a "Daylight HS1 track inspection" period around noon, though then goes on to say that "Currently track engineers inspect high speed infrastructure during daylight hours. This is being reviews for the start of the full service in December 2009." I hadn't entirely realised there was an LGV style 'black-out' period during the day (though that's not the right term but I forget the correct one) on HS1 at the moment. Supplements seem quite hefty but I get the impression when the real service kicks in they will be even higher. The formula for the 'via HS1' fares premium is no secret, it's published in the Southeastern franchise documents. The Ashford supplement for the preview service is the same as for the full service and is in line with this formula. According to the Independent, Southeastern managing director Charles Horton said: "The fares that we are announcing today are for the preview service only and we feel they offer value for money for passengers." which vaguely implies fares may be higher after the preview period. Tim |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
"EE507" wrote in message ... On Jun 1, 11:54 am, Mizter T wrote: And lastly the timetable notes a "Daylight HS1 track inspection" period around noon, though then goes on to say that "Currently track engineers inspect high speed infrastructure during daylight hours. This is being reviews for the start of the full service in December 2009." Interesting. Presumably this is currently fitted around 'white periods' on the LGV Nord. ------ What's the point of daylight inspection between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras? Most of it is in tunnel, so daylight makes no difference. There's a gap between E* departures from St Pancras between 1100 and 1229 (except on Fridays and Sundays). However there is no corresponding gap between arrivals, which are at approximately hourly intervals at that sort of time of day. Peter |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
In message
, at 05:27:28 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, TimB remarked: According to the Independent, Southeastern managing director Charles Horton said: "The fares that we are announcing today are for the preview service only and we feel they offer value for money for passengers." which vaguely implies fares may be higher after the preview period. It's also possible to read it as "these prices are higher than in future because it's an exciting new service, but nevertheless value for money". However, I think the prices in future will increase, if only by whatever normal inflation-linked rises are allowed. -- Roland Perry |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
TimB wrote:
On Jun 1, 11:54 am, Mizter T wrote: The formula for the 'via HS1' fares premium is no secret, it's published in the Southeastern franchise documents. The Ashford supplement for the preview service is the same as for the full service and is in line with this formula. According to the Independent, Southeastern managing director Charles Horton said: "The fares that we are announcing today are for the preview service only and we feel they offer value for money for passengers." which vaguely implies fares may be higher after the preview period. They can't be higher than shown relative to today's fares. Add 10p (least possible change AIUI) to either single 'supplement' and they exceed the allowed caps, ie 35% for services from Ebbsfleet, and 20% for via Ashford. Services from the North Kent line via Ebbsfleet (not applicable yet) are capped at 30%; it's all in the franchise ITT: "Ebbsfleet/St Pancras: Fares will be based on the Gravesend/London fare, subject to a maximum premium of 35%; "Birchington-on-Sea & stations to the west/St Pancras via the North Kent route: Fares will be based on the standard fare between the station concerned and London, plus a maximum of 30% of the Gravesend/London fare; and "All stations/St Pancras via Ashford: Fares will be based on the standard fare between the station concerned and London, plus a maximum of 20% of the Ashford/London fare." Therefore any other fares they announce, for destinations further away, will have the same premium dependent on route, and as the conventional leg of the journey has no premium allowed, the overall change will have to be less as a percentage of the whole fare. However if there is a general rise planned for September or January, that could yet increase the fares & supplements. (See discussions previously about negative RPI effects.) That offpeak return supplement from Ebbsfleet of only £3.20 is presumably not that silly compared with a couple of underground journeys from/to a South London terminus to St Pancras is it? - for any pax with a destination in the immediate vicinity. Paul S |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On Jun 1, 1:18 pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 03:54:07 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked: So, they'll only be offering peak time trains from Ashford during this preview service, but there'll be an all day half-hourly service from Ebbsfleet. Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London. I'd certainly give that try if I lived nearby on the M25. Ashford is a run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a premium service outside commuter hours. Though come the full service there will be 2tph off-peak from Ashford into London. And Ashford could also perhaps provide a P&R style offering for those in the surrounding area, areas of which at least are quite affluent. Also, I don't know Ashford at all well but wikipedia pointed me in the way of this Channel 4 survey where they judged it the fourth best place to live in the UK! See: http://tinyurl.com/C4-best-places-to-live-05 A few other things I noted - "all first class ticket holders are able to travel on the high speed service for no extra cost". Also, AIUI the class 395 trains are classless. Maybe the First Class premium is higher than the HS1 premium (Ashford's FDR is more than twice the price of a SDR). The trip is short enough that they couldn't serve a decent breakfast. Speaking of which, does anyone know what catering they *are* providing on these trains? None - or rather I should so I'm not sure there us going to be any, at least I haven't heard of anything. Unless I'm missing something, the longest journey time is going to be 91 minutes to Margate (it ain't called "high-speed" for nothing!) - see this table of journey times: http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk.../pages/view/66 A while back Southeastern produced a helpful PDF map which compared "High-speed" versus "Mainline" journey times from places in Kent to London - it's long since disappeared off their website but I'm sure I saved it somewhere, as it helps to illustrate things. In the meantime there are maps of both the High-speed peak and off- peak service patterns linked to from this webpage... http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk....php/highspeed ....however I've found the server that, er, serves them to be a bit on the slow side so I've uploaded 'some that I saved earlier' to a bit of webspace - hence they can be found here (PDFs): * Peak http://mizter.t.googlepages.com/High...k_services.pdf * Off-peak http://mizter.t.googlepages.com/High...k_services.pdf |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 03:54:07 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked: So, they'll only be offering peak time trains from Ashford during this preview service, but there'll be an all day half-hourly service from Ebbsfleet. Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London. I think that's a given, 2500 spaces aren't going to fill up with Eurostar pax going the other way are they? Paul S |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
In message
, at 07:24:46 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked: Ashford is a run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a premium service outside commuter hours. Though come the full service there will be 2tph off-peak from Ashford into London. Because that's what they had to promise. And Ashford could also perhaps provide a P&R style offering for those in the surrounding area, areas of which at least are quite affluent. Also, I don't know Ashford at all well but wikipedia pointed me in the way of this Channel 4 survey where they judged it the fourth best place to live in the UK! See: http://tinyurl.com/C4-best-places-to-live-05 They have very strange criteria. In any event I worked in Ashford for a few months, and it's not as hot as they suggest. Maybe they are thinking about some of the surrounding villages? does anyone know what catering they *are* providing on these trains? None - or rather I should so I'm not sure there us going to be any, at least I haven't heard of anything. Not even a trolley? -- Roland Perry |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On 1 June, 13:18, Roland Perry wrote:
Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London. I'd certainly give that try if I lived nearby on the M25. Ashford is a run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a premium service outside commuter hours. Since - as you point out - Ashford has no amenities of its own, the only way to have an evening out is to go up to London, and currently that requires spending the best part of 3 hours on a train for the round trip. I can't see who would be stingy enough not to take the premium service. (and not forgetting it's the junction station for a large part of Kent) U |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
In message , at 15:30:29 on
Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Paul Scott remarked: Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London. I think that's a given, 2500 spaces aren't going to fill up with Eurostar pax going the other way are they? How big is the E* carpark at Ashford? -- Roland Perry |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
In message
, at 07:46:37 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mr Thant remarked: Since - as you point out - Ashford has no amenities of its own, the only way to have an evening out is to go up to London I'm afraid I don't relate to the concept of "evening out" combined with "spending more than half an hour travelling". -- Roland Perry |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:30:29 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Paul Scott remarked: Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London. I think that's a given, 2500 spaces aren't going to fill up with Eurostar pax going the other way are they? How big is the E* carpark at Ashford? Googles for a while... 2000 (Eurostar). And I now discover that Ebbsfleet has 6000 spaces built out of 9000 for which they have planning permission. I think that is fairly large as P&Rs normally go whatever the right figure turns out to be... Paul S |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On Jun 1, 3:36*pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 07:24:46 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked: Ashford is a *run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't *see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a *premium service outside commuter hours. Though come the full service there will be 2tph off-peak from Ashford into London. Because that's what they had to promise. Indeed - but I wouldn't be surprised to see a market emerge for the new HS service, a mix of transferred traffic from the Mainline routes and new passenger And Ashford could also perhaps provide a P&R style offering for those in the surrounding area, areas of which at least are quite affluent. Also, I don't know Ashford at all well but wikipedia pointed me in the way of this Channel 4 survey where they judged it the fourth best place to live in the UK! See: http://tinyurl.com/C4-best-places-to-live-05 They have very strange criteria. In any event I worked in Ashford for a few months, and it's not as hot as they suggest. Maybe they are thinking about some of the surrounding villages? I offered that list with no particular comment one way or the other, just as a contrast to your words - that said I'm pretty sceptical of such things. Maybe they were thinking about some of the surrounding countryside, which is rather pleasant. Also, as Mr Thant eloquently phrased it downthread, Ashford is "the junction station for a large part of Kent" - given the quicker journey, I can imagine people being willing to shell out on the HS1 premium so as to spend longer having a day out in London instead of spending that time on the train getting there and back - of course it all depends on the circumstances (or should I say their circumstances), e.g. how big the travelling party is, what the child fares are like, whether Group Save discounts will be available, will Network Railcards be valid etc. does *anyone know what catering they *are* providing on these trains? None - or rather I should so I'm not sure there us going to be any, at least I haven't heard of anything. Not even a trolley? Pass - dunno. |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On Jun 1, 3:54*pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 15:30:29 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Paul Scott remarked: Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London. I think that's a given, 2500 spaces aren't going to fill up with Eurostar pax going the other way are they? How big is the E* carpark at Ashford? NRE tells me that car parks A, B and F are 139+315+165 = 619 spaces. See: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/afk/details.html No idea what happened to car parks C, D and E! Meanwhile the Eurostar website tells me that car parking charges at Ashford Int'l are "£4.50 for up to 5 hours or £11.50 for up to 24 hours" - see: http://tinyurl.com/Ashford-International-info |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On Jun 1, 3:57*pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 07:46:37 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mr Thant remarked: Since - as you point out - Ashford has no amenities of its own, the only way to have an evening out is to go up to London I'm afraid I don't relate to the concept of "evening out" combined with "spending more than half an hour travelling". "Big night out" is perhaps a more apt phrase - though maybe that just relates to the intake of intoxicants... (And I'm not quite sure the cultcharati of Ashford heading to the West End for a play would quite describe it as a "big night out"!) |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On Jun 1, 3:46*pm, Mr Thant wrote: On 1 June, 13:18, Roland Perry wrote: Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London. I'd certainly give that try if I lived nearby on the M25. Ashford is a run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a premium service outside commuter hours. Since - as you point out - Ashford has no amenities of its own, the only way to have an evening out is to go up to London, and currently that requires spending the best part of 3 hours on a train for the round trip. I can't see who would be stingy enough not to take the premium service. Put like that, yes. But on the flip side there's folk heading for a day out in London - perhaps a family-type group or just some youngsters - where the extra expense might well add up to rather stretch the budget, and where said money might be better spent during their day in London town. Plus at least for some such groups (e.g. young family) the train trip itself might be part of the fun, so in that sense going the relatively 'slow way' might work out for them. (and not forgetting it's the junction station for a large part of Kent) Very true. The other factor is what changes are being made to "Mainline" services to/from Ashford under the new timetable, i.e. whether they'll be slower and less frequent. |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:37:55 +0100 someone who may be "Peter Masson"
wrote this:- There's a gap between E* departures from St Pancras between 1100 and 1229 (except on Fridays and Sundays). However there is no corresponding gap between arrivals, which are at approximately hourly intervals at that sort of time of day. Is work (including inspections) banned on both lines when trains are running at normal speed, or is work permitted on one line when the other is open for normal running? It was reported here that this was banned in France after the death of some staff and either both lines are closed or a speed restriction imposed on both of them (can't remember which, it may vary). -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:09:04 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Mizter T
wrote this:- given the quicker journey, I can imagine people being willing to shell out on the HS1 premium so as to spend longer having a day out in London instead of spending that time on the train getting there and back AOL. The difference in journey times will be dramatic. It seems to take all day to get from London to Ashford by trains to Dover, but it is a different thing altogether by trains going to Paris and Brussels. I imagine lots of people will pay the premium, including people who didn't use the train before. The difference in running time caused by 140mph running seems to be less than 10 minutes from a quick skim of the press release. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
David Hansen wrote:
AOL. The difference in journey times will be dramatic. It seems to take all day to get from London to Ashford by trains to Dover, but it is a different thing altogether by trains going to Paris and Brussels. I imagine lots of people will pay the premium, including people who didn't use the train before. The difference in running time caused by 140mph running seems to be less than 10 minutes from a quick skim of the press release. As someone who used to regularly travel by train from Canterbury to the Midlands (Tamworth), the much easier (i.e. Tube-free!) walk from St Pancras to Euston would have been a godsend. And if it was raining then I could just as easily have changed at St Pancras to Derby and thence to Tamworth. I guess with a 60-minute service from Canterbury to St Pancras and using one of the few 60-minute services to Tamworth, it could be possible to do the whole journey in 2.5 hours at a push! Jonathan |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
Mizter T wrote:
I hadn't entirely realised there was an LGV style 'black-out' period during the day (though that's not the right term but I forget the correct one) on HS1 at the moment. It is called the white period, I think. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On Jun 1, 5:20*pm, David Hansen
wrote: On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:09:04 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Mizter T wrote this:- given the quicker journey, I can imagine people being willing to shell out on the HS1 premium so as to spend longer having a day out in London instead of spending that time on the train getting there and back AOL. The difference in journey times will be dramatic. It seems to take all day to get from London to Ashford by trains to Dover, but it is a different thing altogether by trains going to Paris and Brussels. I imagine lots of people will pay the premium, including people who didn't use the train before. The difference in running time caused by 140mph running seems to be less than 10 minutes from a quick skim of the press release. Just a reminder that Waterloo is only 57-59 mins to/from Ashford, with the heart of the west end at Charing Cross only 60-63 mins away off- peak. Plus these trains offer family- and group-friendly seating. Even the crank in me can't get excited by the HS1 service. |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On 1 June, 16:34, Mizter T wrote:
Very true. I've just noticed that from Hastings it'll be quicker to take a leisurely trip on the single track, unelectrified line to Ashford than to take a direct train. Cor Blimey. So you can add "a big corner of Sussex" to the area Ashford serves. U |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
"Jonathan Stott" wrote in message . uk... David Hansen wrote: AOL. The difference in journey times will be dramatic. It seems to take all day to get from London to Ashford by trains to Dover, but it is a different thing altogether by trains going to Paris and Brussels. I imagine lots of people will pay the premium, including people who didn't use the train before. The difference in running time caused by 140mph running seems to be less than 10 minutes from a quick skim of the press release. As someone who used to regularly travel by train from Canterbury to the Midlands (Tamworth), the much easier (i.e. Tube-free!) walk from St Pancras to Euston would have been a godsend. And if it was raining then I could just as easily have changed at St Pancras to Derby and thence to Tamworth. I guess with a 60-minute service from Canterbury to St Pancras and using one of the few 60-minute services to Tamworth, it could be possible to do the whole journey in 2.5 hours at a push! Good opportunity to raise questions about through journeys then. Arriving at St Pancras clutching your Tamworth to Canterbury via London ticket. Will it still be marked 'any permitted'? Probably, until December. Wander over to the Kent platforms looking to pay a single supplement, intention to walk from Ebbsfleet for a connection (assuming there is one). Will there be yet another ticket office at St P? That has never been categorically answered, to my mind. Will there be a refund of the part of your fare that pays for that cross London transfer by tube, now that you don't need it? Probably not, but eventually a through ticket by HS1 shouldn't need it, so there could be a slight reduction - but then it would have to be marked 'not underground' - my brain hurts now... Paul S |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 07:24:46 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked: Ashford is a run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a premium service outside commuter hours. Though come the full service there will be 2tph off-peak from Ashford into London. Because that's what they had to promise. TBH they have to do that to provide hourly services on each of the two lines going forward. Splitting&joining an hourly service is undesirable (even if they do do it with the classic service) tim |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
"Mizter T" wrote in message ... On Jun 1, 1:18 pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 03:54:07 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked: So, they'll only be offering peak time trains from Ashford during this preview service, but there'll be an all day half-hourly service from Ebbsfleet. Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London. I'd certainly give that try if I lived nearby on the M25. Ashford is a run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a premium service outside commuter hours. Though come the full service there will be 2tph off-peak from Ashford into London. And Ashford could also perhaps provide a P&R style offering for those in the surrounding area, areas of which at least are quite affluent. Also, I don't know Ashford at all well but wikipedia pointed me in the way of this Channel 4 survey where they judged it the fourth best place to live in the UK! Hm! Ashford station is in centre of town surrounded by an area not far short of dereliction. It's a short walk from the shops. But it is not easily accessible by car from outlying areas, and there is almost nowhere to live (and certainly nowhere nice to live) that is a reasonable walk from the station. It doesn't make an idea park and ride IMHO. tim |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
"Mr Thant" wrote in message ... On 1 June, 13:18, Roland Perry wrote: Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London. I'd certainly give that try if I lived nearby on the M25. Ashford is a run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a premium service outside commuter hours. Since - as you point out - Ashford has no amenities of its own, the only way to have an evening out is to go up to London, and currently that requires spending the best part of 3 hours on a train for the round trip. Not sure what sort of amenities you think are missing but I would have though that the majority of "evenings out" destinations from Ashford would be satisfied by a trip to Maidstone or Canterbury (not to mention a drive to a pretty village pub, of which there are many) tim |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
In message , at 17:54:01 on
Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Paul Scott remarked: I guess with a 60-minute service from Canterbury to St Pancras and using one of the few 60-minute services to Tamworth, it could be possible to do the whole journey in 2.5 hours at a push! Good opportunity to raise questions about through journeys then. Arriving at St Pancras clutching your Tamworth to Canterbury via London ticket. Will it still be marked 'any permitted'? Probably, until December. Wander over to the Kent platforms looking to pay a single supplement, No supplement should be required for an "any permitted" ticket, although perhaps HS1 isn't in the routing guide yet, so maybe it's a lacuna. intention to walk from Ebbsfleet for a connection (assuming there is one). Will there be yet another ticket office at St P? That has never been categorically answered, to my mind. There's no floorspace for one, as far as anyone can tell. Maybe it'll share the strangely named "UK Rail" one operated by EMT. Will there be a refund of the part of your fare that pays for that cross London transfer by tube, now that you don't need it? No, because there never has been before. All it does is add a leg on the tube *if* your route needs one. Probably not, but eventually a through ticket by HS1 shouldn't need it, Although last time I looked Tamworth services didn't arrive at St Pancras, or was the OP travelling via Leicester? so there could be a slight reduction - but then it would have to be marked 'not underground' I think you mean "without a Maltese Cross". -- Roland Perry |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote: Although last time I looked Tamworth services didn't arrive at St Pancras, or was the OP travelling via Leicester? No, the poster was commenting favourably on the short walk between Euston and St.P vs crossing London on the Tube. I had to read it several times. Sam |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On Jun 1, 5:39*pm, Arthur Figgis wrote: Mizter T wrote: I hadn't entirely realised there was an LGV style 'black-out' period during the day (though that's not the right term but I forget the correct one) on HS1 at the moment. It is called the white period, I think. Thanks, seems I got my yin and yang confused. Or something. |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
Arthur Figgis wrote:
Mizter T wrote: I hadn't entirely realised there was an LGV style 'black-out' period during the day (though that's not the right term but I forget the correct one) on HS1 at the moment. It is called the white period, I think. Seems to me that on HS1 it's called the "daylight track inspection". Philip. |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
In light of the comment that all first class ticket holders can travel
on the Preview service at no extra charge, I have enquired about how they will treat Britrail First pass holders - of which I shall be one in July. A reply today from a named individual (who got my name wrong) says my query needs "further investigation" and I should expect a reply within 10 days from head office. Presumably this is Southeastern for "Ooops, we hadn't thought of that." Fun will ensue if they backtrack on "all FC ticket holders". tf |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
|
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
|
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
In message , at
10:34:01 on Tue, 2 Jun 2009, Sam Wilson remarked: In light of the comment that all first class ticket holders can travel on the Preview service at no extra charge, ... Let's get this right. There's an all-standard-class service for which standard class ticket holders pay a premium and first class ticket holders don't. Sounds like an all-first-class service to me. It's more complicated than that - eventually it'll be one of the normal "any permitted" route to get to Kent, but more expensive. The current route will be "not HS1" and without the uplift. The "First Class tickets accepted" thing seems to be a kludge to paper over the cracks while there's a premium to pay. -- Roland Perry |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On 2 jun, 11:18, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 02:12:08 on Tue, 2 Jun 2009, remarked: In light of the comment that all first class ticket holders can travel on the Preview service at no extra charge, I have enquired about how they will treat Britrail First pass holders - of which I shall be one in July. A reply today from a named individual (who got my name wrong) says my query needs "further investigation" and I should expect a reply within 10 days from head office. Presumably this is Southeastern for "Ooops, we hadn't thought of that." Fun will ensue if they backtrack on "all FC ticket holders". Has it been established that Standard Britrail pass holders are unwelcome on the service? Or can they pay a supplement. -- Roland Perry Although that's not my query, it would be an equally interesting one to submit. As would an allied one about All Line Rovers. The only one that seems to be oout of the game is the Kent Rover as that's an off- peak only ticket. The preview service is a bit underwhelming really - at least at present. Perhaps Se will increase it as more units become available for traffic, so as to try to encourage some offpeak usage. With a month of school holidays upcoming it would be good if they could take advantage of it. tf |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
Mizter T wrote:
The other factor is what changes are being made to "Mainline" services to/from Ashford under the new timetable, i.e. whether they'll be slower and less frequent. Yup...The services via Maidstone will all be diverted to/from Victoria (one stopper and one semi-fast an hour), the off-peak Cannon Street services will be withdrawn, and the two services via Tonbridge to Charing Cross will become stoppers. Current Timetable: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Victoria - Ashford: 1 hour 24 to 1 hour 42 (1tph off-peak) Cannon Street - Ashford: 1 hour 9 to 1 hour 24 (1tph off-peak) Charing Cross - Ashford: 1 hour to 1 hour 29 (2 to 4tph off-peak) London Bridge - Ashford: 1 hour 3 to 1 hour 21 (3tph off-peak) Draft Timetable: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Victoria - Ashford: 1 hour 20 to 1 hour 37 (2tph off-peak) Cannon Street - Ashford: 1 hour 3 to 1 hour 17 (evening peak only) Charing Cross - Ashford: 1 hour 12 to 1 hour 26 (2tph off-peak) London Bridge - Ashford: 1 hour 7 to 1 hour 17 (2tph off-peak) So the big losers are anyone wanting to go to Cannon Street off-peak, who'll now have to change trains and platforms at London Bridge, and anyone travelling to Charing Cross, who'll have journey times on the "classic" route extended by 27% for much of the day. Draft Mainline timetables are linked from http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/index.php/cms/pages/view/262 Cheers, Barry |
SouthEastern HS1 Trial Service Finally Announced
On Jun 2, 7:34*pm, Paul Corfield wrote: [snip quoted text] While we're doing tickets for this preview service does anyone know whether Railcard and Privilege discounts will apply? I did try to conjure up a journey for the new service on South Eastern's site and also National Rail but neither had any record of the departures and therefore the fares couldn't be displayed. Fares wise, the route is being interwoven into the national network - basically it will become the new "Any Permitted" route (and route AP tickets will thus carry the HS1 premium), whilst there will be new route "not HS1" fares (that won't attract the premium). In this context national Railcard discounts will surely apply on the HS service - though whether the (SE England-only) Network Railcard will be valid is perhaps less clear (bearing in mind that it's not a 'statutory' railcard, it's an opt-in arrangement for the TOCs). Someone has said that there'll be no priv-rate fares, but I've no idea if that's true (perhaps the underlying fare will be available at priv- rate, but the HS1 add-on premium won't be discounted?). |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 01:04 PM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2006 LondonBanter.co.uk