On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:45 +0000, Richard J. wrote:
Presumably you mean the West London Line (WLL) from Kensington Olympia

Possibly, it's not on the normal tube map, only the big one with all rail
links

Meaning White City? There is a plan for a new White City H&C station to
serve the new retail centre, but that's a long way from the WLL, which
will have a station near to Shepherd's Bush Central Line.

The new retail center is south of the current white city station, halfway
to the Shepherds bush H&C station. Of course Bank and Momument aren't
exactly close either.

(Basic theory is to disperse as many as possible away fom the centre
rather than bringing them in only for them to go out again.)
Still requires a bit of fine-tuning but it could be made to work.

That goes against the philosophy on the London-centric governments for the
past 937 years, they don't realise some people don't want to go to London!

The other problem is that the WLL is an important freight route across
London, and cannot sustain a very frequent passenger service without loss of

Why does freight need to go *across* London. I can understand it going
into london, however the freight destined for the 50 million people living
outside the Greater London area shouldn't go anywhere near London. There
should be a large (6 track?) London Orbital, channeling Channel Tunnel
traffic to Brum/The North, or Traffic to East Anglia from the South,
around from London in the same way the M25 does.

freight paths. Also, where do your trains terminate? Paddington would be
possible eventually (post-HEx), I suppose. I doubt that there is the
terminal or line capacity further east.

Sure, throw them on the circle/district/metropolitan/hammersmith and city
line

Coudn't you terminate underneath Paddington, next to the Bakerloo line? Or
even carry on on a tube tunnel across Marylebone, to Euston, and KX? Or
perhaps take a northern view, via Finchley Road, Camden Town, Highbury and
Islingon to Liverpool Street?

OK the tunneling would be expensive, but it would allow the majority
of tube traffic to circle London without going into zone 1.

"Paul" wrote in message
...

why not buy up a supply of human cannons (ex circus/
Government - you choose) and place the person in, point
in the right(-ish) direction and wait for the big bang.
Payment in advance only and it's my patent! As long as
it's not the wrong kind of gunpowder it would be probably
the fastest public transport that the capital has ever seen!

Someone submitted this idea to the "Car-Free London" competition a few years
ago. Was it you?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

John Rowland wrote:

Someone submitted this idea to the "Car-Free London" competition a
few years ago. Was it you?

No, it wasn't, unfortunately - there goes my patent!
However, I do have another thought which could do with some airing - LU
services (the majority, I believe), start and finish outside the main/
central area. This means that trains block platforms out of town for crew
turnaround etc. and then pass through rather than clogging up terminal
stations. If a system similar to step-back was introduced then the accrued
dwell times savings per day would allow quite a few more services to use
those stations.
Indeed one step better is feasible at Waterloo whereby the outlay would
probably pay for itself within a short time. It would mean something on the
lines of Waterloo being a through station, at least for a couple of
platforms and the lines basically going on past the buffers, through the
main building (!) and meeting up with the Charing Cross line and out to
London Bridge, which already has terminal and pass platform arrangements.
Because the trains don't stand over and the dwell times are reduced to say
that of Clapham Junction the increase in through traffic thanks to those
savings would make quite a difference. Some standarisation of stock may be
required, but what's wrong with Dartford area services, for example,
terminating at Wimbledon or something? Guildford - New Cross, peut-être?
It could be done ...

BTW, any idea of average dwell times for comparison, i.e. Clapham Junction,
Waterloo, London Bridge?

Paul

The other problem is that the WLL is an important freight route
across London, and cannot sustain a very frequent passenger service
without loss of freight paths. Also, where do your trains terminate?
Paddington would be possible eventually (post-HEx), I suppose. I doubt
that
there is the terminal or line capacity further east.

Sure, throw them on the circle/district/metropolitan/hammersmith and
city line

Coudn't you terminate underneath Paddington, next to the Bakerloo
line? Or even carry on on a tube tunnel across Marylebone, to Euston,
and KX? Or perhaps take a northern view, via Finchley Road, Camden
Town, Highbury and Islingon to Liverpool Street?

OK the tunneling would be expensive, but it would allow the majority
of tube traffic to circle London without going into zone 1.

Bear in mind that from (West Kensington) the Cromwell Curve to South Ken the
Circle/ District already has the Piccadilly underneath. With the advances in
technology it wouldn't be an additional burden on the existing setup either.
Paul

"Richard J." wrote:
The other problem is that the WLL is an important freight route across
London, and cannot sustain a very frequent passenger service without loss of
freight paths.

This is the story we always get, but it needs to be unpacked. First,
considerable sections of the WLL were originally 4-track - including
Olympia station - and could be again. This would allow overtaking about
halfway along the link, if necessary.

But a lot could also be done with signalling and scheduling. It
shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to alternate freights travelling at a
constant 25-30 mph with passenger trains averaging the same speed but
reaching 60 or so and stopping 5 or 6 times. The limiting factor is
freight train length - at 30mph a half-mile long train takes a minute to
pass a point. With 2 empty blocks behind that would mean you couldn't
schedule trains to get closer than 3 minutes apart. That might mean a
timetable frequency of a train every 5 minutes or a passenger train
every 10.

As to where the trains would go, I'd favour Watford junction one way
(replacing the Silverlink DC Euston service). Extension beyond Clapham
Junction would be desirable, but I'm not sure where to.

Colin Mckenzie

In article , Paul
writes
On the original theme of cable-cars, a light-hearted approach with a bit
more chance of success (Travelator - yes / swinging vomit-inducers - no),
why not buy up a supply of human cannons (ex circus/ Government - you
choose) and place the person in, point in the right(-ish) direction and wait
for the big bang. Payment in advance only and it's my patent!

Will they accept Oyster?
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk