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Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
[original thread on uk.railway]
[x-posted to uk.transport.london] On Jun 8, 7:29*pm, wrote: On Jun 8, 6:49*pm, "Paul Scott" wrote: "Peter Masson" wrote: Boris Johnson has announced that Oyster PAYG will be accepted on National Rail throughout Greater London during the tube strike if it goes ahead. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/11971.aspx How will that work? Have all National rail stations now got working Oyster readers?Is the back office geared up to deduct the correct fare for all National Rail journeys? If the answer to both questions is yes, why can't Oyster PAYG on National Rail start immediately? I just noticed SWT's take on this earlier: http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/SWT...ndergroundstri.... "... The services are Feltham to Clapham Junction and Waterloo via Kew Bridge or via Richmond; and Wimbledon to Clapham Junction and Waterloo. This includes PAYG and paper tickets. We shall not be accepting PAYG or paper London Underground tickets at any other SWT station." As you say it will be interesting if they actually switch on their PAYG functionality just for a couple of days, but how else could it work? As the TfL link just says show your card, I assume that TfL will be paying the TOCs to accept them, without fares necessarily being deducted. Of course, SWT from the link above For the sake of clarity, that's the TfL news release - which I'll repeat he http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/11971.aspx 'National Rail Oyster pay as you go will be accepted on all National Rail journeys within Greater London on Wednesday and Thursday, just show your Oyster card at station gate lines.' There does seem to be a bit of a disagreement between the SWT site (basically only valid on routes near LU lines) and the TfL site (valid everywhere), but I can see no info on the Southern, South Eastern or FCC sites (I gave up checking after these!!), where there are also LU lines nearby. Ah, what delightful confusion. It seems that either SWT or TfL don't understand what they've agreed upon. I assume that this contingency plan for Oyster PAYG to be accepted on NR was negotiated some time ago, presumably between TfL and ATOC acting on behalf of all the London TOCs - it is after all the 'nuclear option', as it were. If so, then perhaps there's been some misunderstanding of it after it was taken off the shelf and dusted off - but if so, is that misunderstanding SWT's or TfL's part (I'd wager on the former! But maybe not, and Boris/TfL are chancing/pushing it?). Alternatively, perhaps the agreement was struck more recently, what with the threat of a looming strike. (Could it even have been struck by a Boris administration, aware of the potential of forthcoming trouble?) If it's been struck more recently, then it's shabby that they can't sing from teh same hymn sheet. Regardless, this is a stupid situation - if TfL are proclaiming that, then SWT can't penalise people for following that advice. If they do, then there'll be a lot of penalty fares appeals! FWIW, I can certainly see the logic in restricting the acceptance of Oyster card holders to only some routes - the Tube network doesn't go anywhere near Surbiton after all. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
The National Rail Website says the following:
Oyster Card 'Pay as you go' will be accepted on National Rail journeys in Greater London. I would therefore say that iy is all of National Rail. Peter |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
"collybs" wrote in message ... The National Rail Website says the following: Oyster Card 'Pay as you go' will be accepted on National Rail journeys in Greater London. I would therefore say that iy is all of National Rail. Peter Can anybody say if Chingford has Oyster readers or not? NEAX website they will be installed by Spring 2008, TfL website map says no Oyster availability there yet. Considering it is only 4 stops from Walthamstow Central on an isolated line it would make some sense to have it there but we are talking about rail firms here. Think I will print out and take the TfL page saying Oyster can be used on NR, just in case.... Nick |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 9:46*am, "Nick P" wrote: "collybs" wrote: The National Rail Website says the following: Oyster Card 'Pay as you go' will be accepted on National Rail journeys in Greater London. I would therefore say that iy is all of National Rail. Can anybody say if Chingford has Oyster readers or not? NEAX website they will be installed by Spring 2008, TfL website map says no Oyster availability there yet. Considering it is only 4 stops from Walthamstow Central on an isolated line it would make some sense to have it there but we are talking about rail firms here. Think I will print out and take the TfL page saying Oyster can be used on NR, just in case.... If any Oyster readers have been installed at Chingford, they will *not* be available for public use yet - they will likely be covered up and turned off. Oyster PAYG has not gone live across the National Rail network in London - this is now not expected to happen until some time next year, i.e. 2010. Oyster PAYG being accepted on NR during the strike days is a bit of a misnomer - in essence if you have an Oyster card you will simply be waved through. There is a question mark about what will happen on routes where Oyster PAYG is accepted for only part of the route - e.g. the Chingford branch and the other NXEA branches in NE London are an example - if the passenger uses their Oyster card at only one end of the journey, i.e. at Liverpool Street, and whether this would incur the £4 charge for an unresolved journey (actually a higher £5 charge applies from the relevant London termini stations). How this will be dealt with is unclear - it's possible that TfL will do a mass refund of erroneously applied charges after the strike, which would be automatically applied as much as possible. I think there could be another possible solution to this as well, but as we don't know how this will be dealt with so it's all just speculation at the moment. Perhaps the best way of avoiding this issue is to try and avoid using the automatic gates at Liverpool Street and go through the side gate instead. This of course depends upon how things are done on the day at Liverpool Street, and whether staff allow you through the side gates when simply brandishing an Oyster card. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 8, 9:28*pm, Mizter T wrote:
[original thread on uk.railway] [x-posted to uk.transport.london] On Jun 8, 7:29*pm, wrote: On Jun 8, 6:49*pm, "Paul Scott" wrote: "Peter Masson" wrote: Boris Johnson has announced that Oyster PAYG will be accepted on National Rail throughout Greater London during the tube strike if it goes ahead. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/11971.aspx How will that work? Have all National rail stations now got working Oyster readers?Is the back office geared up to deduct the correct fare for all National Rail journeys? If the answer to both questions is yes, why can't Oyster PAYG on National Rail start immediately? I just noticed SWT's take on this earlier: http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/SWT...ndergroundstri.... "... The services are Feltham to Clapham Junction and Waterloo via Kew Bridge or via Richmond; and Wimbledon to Clapham Junction and Waterloo. This includes PAYG and paper tickets. We shall not be accepting PAYG or paper London Underground tickets at any other SWT station." As you say it will be interesting if they actually switch on their PAYG functionality just for a couple of days, but how else could it work? As the TfL link just says show your card, I assume that TfL will be paying the TOCs to accept them, without fares necessarily being deducted. Of course, SWT from the link above For the sake of clarity, that's the TfL news release - which I'll repeat hehttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/11971.aspx 'National Rail Oyster pay as you go will be accepted on all National Rail journeys within Greater London on Wednesday and Thursday, just show your Oyster card at station gate lines.' There does seem to be a bit of a disagreement between the SWT site (basically only valid on routes near LU lines) and the TfL site (valid everywhere), but I can see no info on the Southern, South Eastern or FCC sites (I gave up checking after these!!), where there are also LU lines nearby. Ah, what delightful confusion. It seems that either SWT or TfL don't understand what they've agreed upon. I assume that this contingency plan for Oyster PAYG to be accepted on NR was negotiated some time ago, presumably between TfL and ATOC acting on behalf of all the London TOCs - it is after all the 'nuclear option', as it were. If so, then perhaps there's been some misunderstanding of it after it was taken off the shelf and dusted off - but if so, is that misunderstanding SWT's or TfL's part (I'd wager on the former! But maybe not, and Boris/TfL are chancing/pushing it?). Alternatively, perhaps the agreement was struck more recently, what with the threat of a looming strike. (Could it even have been struck by a Boris administration, aware of the potential of forthcoming trouble?) If it's been struck more recently, then it's shabby that they can't sing from teh same hymn sheet. Regardless, this is a stupid situation - if TfL are proclaiming that, then SWT can't penalise people for following that advice. If they do, then there'll be a lot of penalty fares appeals! FWIW, I can certainly see the logic in restricting the acceptance of Oyster card holders to only some routes - the Tube network doesn't go anywhere near Surbiton after all. Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite a forceful way: http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95 Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground – both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror Tube routes on our network. So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes (including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes only: Brixton to Victoria Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares will be applicable as normal. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
wrote Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite a forceful way: http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95 Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground - both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go - on services that mirror Tube routes on our network. So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes (including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes only: Brixton to Victoria Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross ------ Unless either TfL, or SWT and Southeastern, change their advice (and in the case of TfL, publicise any changes very clearly) I can foresee big arguments. What about a passenger whose normal route, using PAYG because he only travels two or three days a week, so a season ticket is uneconomic, is bus to North Greenwich then Jubilee Line to Bond Street. A sensible alternative route would be Southeastern from Charlton to Victoria, changing at Blackheath, then bus or walk. IMHO that route mirrors the passenger's normal tube route, and even on their restricted view, Southeastern should allow it. Peter. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 3:36*pm, Clive Page wrote:
http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95 Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground – both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror Tube routes on our network. So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes (including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes only: Brixton to Victoria Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross This should say "London Bridge to Cannon...". Some muppet in SN's PR department has managed to drag and drop "Bridge to" into the next paragraph down. Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares will be applicable as normal. Hmm. *I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. *Is this a Southeastern route? * I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. *As far as I recall, they don't yet exist at either, does anyone know? There are certainly Oyster readers on the exists at Charing Cross; what their PAYG status will be tonight/tomorrow/Thursday I don't know. And there are certainly validators by the platforms that FCC use at London Bridge. London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel to a tube journey, I'd have said. Yup indeed. -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 3:36*pm, Clive Page wrote:
In message , writes Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite a forceful way: http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95 Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground – both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror Tube routes on our network. So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes (including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes only: Brixton to Victoria Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares will be applicable as normal. Hmm. *I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. *Is this a Southeastern route? * I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. *As far as I recall, they don't yet exist at either, does anyone know? London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel to a tube journey, I'd have said. It's on the list I've quoted above, so I can't imagine that one being controversial. Perhaps print off that page from the Southeastern website? The lack of validators isn't relevant in this case as the guidance everywhere seems to be 'just show your Oyster at the gateline rather than touching it [and you won't get charged anything]'. For the record, both Charing Cross and London Bridge do have Oyster- enabled gates, but at the moment they are the 'dumb' sort of readers that just check whether a valid season is loaded on the Oyster in question (rather than handling the complexities of PAYG). |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 3:36*pm, Clive Page wrote: In message , writes Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite a forceful way: http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95 Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground – both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror Tube routes on our network. So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes (including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes only: Brixton to Victoria Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares will be applicable as normal. Hmm. *I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. *Is this a Southeastern route? * I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. *As far as I recall, they don't yet exist at either, does anyone know? There are Oyster readers on the Thameslink platforms at London Bridge *but* these are _only_ for people starting or finishing their journey on FCC Thameslink and who were using Oyster PAYG to pay for their journey (it's valid for all stations on teh Tha,eslink route between West Hampstead and London Bridge/ Elephant & Castle) - so *don't* touch-in on them. When you get to Charing Cross, the gates of course have Oyster readers on them *but* these are _only_ equipped to check and see if there is a season Travelcard held on that ticket - currently they *do not* handle Oyster PAYG, because Oyster PAYG is not normally valid on any mainline trains out of Charing Cross. London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel to a tube journey, I'd have said. Yes. Simply show your Oyster card on arrival at Charing Cross. You won't end up paying anything. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 2:25*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:
wrote Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite a forceful way: http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95 Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground - both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go - on services that mirror Tube routes on our network. So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes (including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes only: Brixton to Victoria Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross ------ Unless either TfL, or SWT and Southeastern, change their advice (and in the case of TfL, publicise any changes very clearly) I can foresee big arguments. I couldn't agree more. The TfL website is still showing the following wording: "National Rail - Oyster Pay As You Go will be accepted on all National Rail journeys within Greater London on Wednesday and Thursday - just show your Oyster card at the station gates." with less than two hours to go until the strike begins. By contrast with Southeastern, Southern have adopted the 'let TfL sort it out' approach - I finally managed to find this on their website (at http://www.southernrailway.com/news....&u=index.php): "LONDON UNDERGROUND STRIKE ACTION - LATEST June 2nd 2009 The RMT union has announced strike action on the London Underground network to commence at 18.59 hours on Tuesday 9 June through to 18.58 hours on Thursday 11 June 2009. Transport for London has advised that it will do all it can to keep customers fully informed of the impact of this action but is advising customers to check its Live Travel News for updates before travelling, and to use its Journey Planner to plan a possible alternative route. Travel plans for the strike have been announced by the Mayor of London. for more details, please go to the Transport for London website." SWT are taking a similar tack to Southeastern (http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/SWTrains/News/ _londonundergroundstrike.htm): "During this time South West Trains will be accepting all Transport for London tickets on certain SWT services within the Travelcard boundary. The services are Feltham to Clapham Junction and Waterloo via Kew Bridge or via Richmond; and Wimbledon to Clapham Junction and Waterloo. This includes PAYG and paper tickets. We shall not be accepting PAYG or paper London Underground tickets at any other SWT station." It's going to be an interesting couple of days. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 2:25*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote: wrote Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite a forceful way: http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95 Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground - both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go - on services that mirror Tube routes on our network. So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes (including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes only: Brixton to Victoria Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross ------ Unless either TfL, or SWT and Southeastern, change their advice (and in the case of TfL, publicise any changes very clearly) I can foresee big arguments. Absolutely agreed. What about a passenger whose normal route, using PAYG because he only travels two or three days a week, so a season ticket is uneconomic, is bus to North Greenwich then Jubilee Line to Bond Street. A sensible alternative route would be Southeastern from Charlton to Victoria, changing at Blackheath, then bus or walk. IMHO that route mirrors the passenger's normal tube route, and even on their restricted view, Southeastern should allow it. Also agreed. I can understand why the TOCs are wary - they don't want to be swamped with 'freeloaders' simply enjoying/ taking advantage of a couple of days of totally free rail travel across London by simply waving their Oyster card around, especially given the extra load they'd be handling on strike days anyway. However the situation with regards to the contradictory information is all pretty silly. I can't see any penalty fares that might be issued as standing up at all. I suppose the TOCs may simply be trying to dissuade people from 'taking the mickey'. They've got their bottom line to look at as well of course. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 3:55*pm, wrote: On Jun 9, 3:36*pm, Clive Page wrote: http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95 Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground – both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror Tube routes on our network. So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes (including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes only: Brixton to Victoria Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross This should say "London Bridge to Cannon...". Some muppet in SN's PR department has managed to drag and drop "Bridge to" into the next paragraph down. Shabby. Though the blame lies with Southeastern's PR department, not Southern's. Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares will be applicable as normal. Hmm. *I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. *Is this a Southeastern route? * I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. *As far as I recall, they don't yet exist at either, does anyone know? There are certainly Oyster readers on the exists at Charing Cross; what their PAYG status will be tonight/tomorrow/Thursday I don't know. No go - they are for checking season Travelcards loaded on Oyster *only*. There are currently *no* PAYG routes from Charing Cross. And they can't magic this up overnight either. And there are certainly validators by the platforms that FCC use at London Bridge. Solely to handle Thameslink traffic - Oyster PAYG being valid on Thameslink between West Hampstead and London Bridge/ Elephant & Castle *only*. This page and the PDF map it links to make this clear: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel to a tube journey, I'd have said. Yup indeed. Agreed. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 3:58*pm, wrote: On Jun 9, 3:36*pm, Clive Page wrote: In message , writes Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite a forceful way: http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95 Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground – both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror Tube routes on our network. So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes (including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes only: Brixton to Victoria Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares will be applicable as normal. Hmm. *I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. *Is this a Southeastern route? * I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. *As far as I recall, they don't yet exist at either, does anyone know? London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel to a tube journey, I'd have said. It's on the list I've quoted above, so I can't imagine that one being controversial. Perhaps print off that page from the Southeastern website? The lack of validators isn't relevant in this case as the guidance everywhere seems to be 'just show your Oyster at the gateline rather than touching it [and you won't get charged anything]'. For the record, both Charing Cross and London Bridge do have Oyster- enabled gates, but at the moment they are the 'dumb' sort of readers that just check whether a valid season is loaded on the Oyster in question (rather than handling the complexities of PAYG). Correct with regards to the readers on the automatic gates. Note that Oyster PAYG is valid on the FCC Thameslink route between West Hampstead and London Bridge/ Elephant & Castle, but at London Bridge this requires one to touch-in or out on the standalone Oyster readers on the Thameslink platforms and then you have to go and ask to be let out the side gate after explaining that you've used PAYG on Thameslink - the gates will not open for you. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 4:04*pm, wrote: On Jun 9, 2:25*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote: wrote Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite a forceful way: http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95 Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground - both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go - on services that mirror Tube routes on our network. So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes (including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes only: Brixton to Victoria Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross ------ Unless either TfL, or SWT and Southeastern, change their advice (and in the case of TfL, publicise any changes very clearly) I can foresee big arguments. I couldn't agree more. The TfL website is still showing the following wording: "National Rail - Oyster Pay As You Go will be accepted on all National Rail journeys within Greater London on Wednesday and Thursday - just show your Oyster card at the station gates." with less than two hours to go until the strike begins. By contrast with Southeastern, Southern have adopted the 'let TfL sort it out' approach - I finally managed to find this on their website (at [mangled URL - see original post] ): "LONDON UNDERGROUND STRIKE ACTION - LATEST June 2nd 2009 The RMT union has announced strike action on the London Underground network to commence at 18.59 hours on Tuesday 9 June through to 18.58 hours on Thursday 11 June 2009. Transport for London has advised that it will do all it can to keep customers fully informed of the impact of this action but is advising customers to check its Live Travel News for updates before travelling, and to use its Journey Planner to plan a possible alternative route. Travel plans for the strike have been announced by the Mayor of London. for more details, please go to the Transport for London website." SWT are taking a similar tack to Southeastern ( [mangled URL - see original post] ): "During this time South West Trains will be accepting all Transport for London tickets on certain SWT services within the Travelcard boundary. The services are Feltham to Clapham Junction and Waterloo via Kew Bridge or via Richmond; and Wimbledon to Clapham Junction and Waterloo. This includes PAYG and paper tickets. We shall not be accepting PAYG or paper London Underground tickets at any other SWT station." It's going to be an interesting couple of days. Indeed, though given the pretty unambiguous message that's come from TfL I doubt any of the TOCs will even try and issue penalty fares. Who's going to be the guinea pig and try and make journeys from Surbiton, East Croydon and Bromley South holding only an Oyster card loaded with a little PAYG credit then?! |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
Peter Masson wrote:
------ Unless either TfL, or SWT and Southeastern, change their advice (and in the case of TfL, publicise any changes very clearly) I can foresee big arguments. What about a passenger whose normal route, using PAYG because he only travels two or three days a week, so a season ticket is uneconomic, is bus to North Greenwich then Jubilee Line to Bond Street. A sensible alternative route would be Southeastern from Charlton to Victoria, changing at Blackheath, then bus or walk. IMHO that route mirrors the passenger's normal tube route, and even on their restricted view, Southeastern should allow it. Peter. BBCTravelWatch (via Twitter) are pretty adamant that TfL are sticking to the 'valid all over' line: '#Strike: One hour folks... spoke to TfL over the oyster PAYG issue; they say SWT and Southeastern's info is out of date oyster WILL be taken' So there you are. If you get caught, refer the bill to TfL. I'm half-tempted to take the day off and go riding. Tom |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 4:23*pm, Mizter T wrote:
, but at London Bridge this requires one to touch-in or out on the standalone Oyster readers on the Thameslink platforms and then you have to go and ask to be let out the side gate after explaining that you've used PAYG on Thameslink - the gates will not open for you.- Is that right :o) I did not know that. I've previously had a PAYG Oyster and now have a staff free Oyster but I don't recall ever needing to use either at LB. -- Nick |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 6:10*pm, Tom Barry wrote: Peter Masson wrote: ------ Unless either TfL, or SWT and Southeastern, change their advice (and in the case of TfL, publicise any changes very clearly) I can foresee big arguments. What about a passenger whose normal route, using PAYG because he only travels two or three days a week, so a season ticket is uneconomic, is bus to North Greenwich then Jubilee Line to Bond Street. A sensible alternative route would be Southeastern from Charlton to Victoria, changing at Blackheath, then bus or walk. IMHO that route mirrors the passenger's normal tube route, and even on their restricted view, Southeastern should allow it. BBCTravelWatch (via Twitter) are pretty adamant that TfL are sticking to the 'valid all over' line: '#Strike: One hour folks... spoke to TfL over the oyster PAYG issue; they say SWT and Southeastern's info is out of date oyster WILL be taken' So there you are. *If you get caught, refer the bill to TfL. *I'm half-tempted to take the day off and go riding. Interesting, thanks. Funnily enough I was going to start an entirely new thread about BBC London's travel updates on Twitter, which I stumbled across recently. Afraid I'm rather disparaging about the whole Twitter malarkey, but nonetheless this is something that could potentially be useful - though I'm not sure whether one really wants a travel news text message every 10 minutes! The "BBCTravelAlert" Twitter 'feed' can however be seen via the web here (with a nice old photo of a Routemaster in the old Victoria bus station as a background): http://twitter.com/bbctravelalert |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
spotted this on FCC
Note: Some PAYG customers using FCC services to make journeys on these 'additional' PAYG routes will not be able to correctly 'touch in' or 'touch out' due to some FCC stations within the London Travelcard area not having Oyster validators. To prevent PAYG customers being charged for an incomplete journey in these instances, the Oyster system will be set up to automatically complete any journey starting or ending at a Zone 1 station where the customer touches in/out. The charge made will be based on a journey between the customer’s 'usual' start/finish station and the Zone 1 station where they touched in/out: e.g. a PAYG customer who normally travels to/from Hendon Central to St Pancras International will be charged for a PAYG journey from Hendon Central to/from Zone 1. Important note: this automatic completion process does not always work and PAYG customers are advised that they may incur an incomplete charge of £4 or £5. TfL are planning automatic refunds of any incomplete charges incurred in Zone 1 on the days of industrial action. If you have a query about the amount you have been charged or you haven’t received an automatic refund within a week, please contact the Oyster helpline on 0845 330 9876. What if you don't have a "normal" journey?! |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 6:31*pm, wrote: On Jun 9, 4:23*pm, Mizter T wrote: , but at London Bridge this requires one to touch-in or out on the standalone Oyster readers on the Thameslink platforms and then you have to go and ask to be let out the side gate after explaining that you've used PAYG on Thameslink - the gates will not open for you.- Is that right :o) I did not know that. I've previously had a PAYG Oyster and now have a staff free Oyster but I don't recall ever needing to use either at LB. Yes, 'tis true. To be honest it's actually fairly sensible - the number of passengers who specifically enter London Bridge station from the street to use Thameslink to get to stations on the Thameslink core route must be fairly small - for St Pancras, Kentish Town and West Hampstead then the tube from LB is the natural choice, which leaves Blackfriars, City Thameslink and Farringdon - I'd say only for the latter journey does Thameslink really make sense (for the former two I'd go with the District/Circle from Blackfriars or Mansion House - though Blackfriars LU is of course shut now, so perhaps Thameslink might sort of make sense). I'd think it more likely that those using Oyster PAYG on the Thameslink core from/to London Bridge are interchanging there with other mainline services, so never have to negotiate the LB gateline situation whatsoever during their journey. *If* the main gatelines at London Bridge were to be enabled for Oyster PAYG then there would be an enormous number of people erroneously thinking they can use their Oyster cards (in PAYG mode) to travel on trains south of the river - this would lead to mass confusion and lots of ticketless travel. Better then that the few Oyster PAYG-using Thameslink passengers are inconvenienced than causing mass problems elsewhere. Of course eventually this anomaly will disappear once PAYG gets universal acceptance across NR on London. Which will happen, in a distant and much promised land called the future. Oh, and on strike days, when it seems you get to travel for free merely by brandishing an Oyster card! |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 6:52*pm, wrote: spotted this on FCC Note: Some PAYG customers using FCC services to make journeys on these 'additional' PAYG routes will not be able to correctly 'touch in' or 'touch out' due to some FCC stations within the London Travelcard area not having Oyster validators. To prevent PAYG customers being charged for an incomplete journey in these instances, the Oyster system will be set up to automatically complete any journey starting or ending at a Zone 1 station where the customer touches in/out. The charge made will be based on a journey between the customer’s 'usual' start/finish station and the Zone 1 station where they touched in/out: e.g. a PAYG customer who normally travels to/from Hendon Central to St Pancras International will be charged for a PAYG journey from Hendon Central to/from Zone 1. Important note: this automatic completion process does not always work and PAYG customers are advised that they may incur an incomplete charge of £4 or £5. *TfL are planning automatic refunds of any incomplete charges incurred in Zone 1 on the days of industrial action. If you have a query about the amount you have been charged or you haven’t received an automatic refund within a week, please contact the Oyster helpline on 0845 330 9876. Thanks very much for the spot! For the record, the above information can be found on the FCC website he http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...=MajorIncident What if you don't have a "normal" journey?! Good question. In fact I'm intrigued as to how it'd supposedly work anyway, and whether it's even possible. Perhaps it's wrong, but has been thrown in there simply because people need some kind of explanation? I'm wondering if people will simply be charged for a zone 1 or zone 1&2 journey, something like that? Or has the 'entry fare' system been turned off, as I speculated elsewhere? At least FCC are honest in saying that people may incur some £4 and £5 charges. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
I talked directly to SWT and TFL and the mayors office today and both
TFL and the mayors office say Oyster will be valid. SWT are adamant they will be refusing them except on the advertised routes and said they were expecting numerous complaints but that the agreement was as described in newsrail express and Southeastern agree. I'm waiting for SWT to try to penalty fare someone for using Oyster as per the incorrect National Rail and TFL instructions!!! Other point of humour was that the TFL info line was swithced off today saying that they were expecting call volumes that were too high to deal with and so they were unable to answer any! How can something so simple be so complex. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 7:55*pm, wrote: I talked directly to SWT and TFL and the mayors office today and both TFL and the mayors office say Oyster will be valid. *SWT are adamant they will be refusing them except on the advertised routes and said they were expecting numerous complaints but that the agreement was as described in newsrail express and Southeastern agree. *I'm waiting for SWT to try to penalty fare someone for using Oyster as per the incorrect National Rail and TFL instructions!!! How interesting - there seems to be a direct disagreement between TfL and at least some of the TOCs on what this agreement constitutes then. Perhaps anyone getting PF'd should simply give their name and address as Boris Johnson, City Hall... Other point of humour was that the TFL info line was swithced off today saying that they were expecting call volumes that were too high to deal with and so they were unable to answer any! *How can something so simple be so complex. I dunno about earlier, but I've just tried it now (i.e. 8pm) and the option to speak to a travel advisor existed, though when I chose that option I was unsurprisingly put in a queue (I've hung up as I don't need to talk to them). The introductory recorded message (somewhat incongruously spoken by a bloke with an Aussie accent!) didn't say they weren't taking calls either - though did direct one towards the web and also to TfL's SMS response service. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 8:40*pm, Paul Corfield wrote: On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:07:12 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote: On Jun 9, 7:55*pm, wrote: I talked directly to SWT and TFL and the mayors office today and both TFL and the mayors office say Oyster will be valid. *SWT are adamant they will be refusing them except on the advertised routes and said they were expecting numerous complaints but that the agreement was as described in newsrail express and Southeastern agree. *I'm waiting for SWT to try to penalty fare someone for using Oyster as per the incorrect National Rail and TFL instructions!!! How interesting - there seems to be a direct disagreement between TfL and at least some of the TOCs on what this agreement constitutes then. This is the text from newsrail express (as posted on another non usenet group) Industrial action affecting London Underground services - 9th to 11th June 2009 As you may be aware, the RMT Union has called for its members employed by London Underground (LU) to take industrial action for 48 hours from 1859 on Tuesday 9th June. "London Underground will be issuing revised ticketing and refund instructions as soon as possible - please disregard the previous instructions that we (ATOC) were supplied that appeared here yesterday. Important: It should also be especially noted that Transport for London/London Underground are advising customers that Oyster PAYG is being accepted on all National Rail services in Greater London. This is not what has been agreed with the Train Companies. PAYG will only be accepted on 'reasonable alternative' routes, these being determined and advised locally by each TOC. In the meantime staff should politely advise customers enquiring about Travelcard refunds or PAYG charges to contact London Underground Customer Services on 0845 330 988 or the Oyster help line on 0845 330 9876 as appropriate." ------- Ouch. As I said, a "direct disagreement" Not ideal, to say the least. I wonder if this is perhaps more Boris & co's doing - I wasn't thinking that beforehand, but we know he's keen on what he calls "Oysterisation" and I can perhaps imagine him and his City Hall advisers wanting to put across a simple message and be a hero of the strike breaking London commuters - so I wonder if word has come down from the Mayor's office to TfL that overrules any objections on the 'Oyster PAYG on NR' message - leaving the TOCs to simply having to accept it as a fait accompli, having had their hand successfully forced by Boris/ TfL? Regardless of who's at fault here, once this strike is over you can be sure as hell that this agreement between TfL and ATOC/ the TOCs will be revisited in great detail. I am sure I have read somewhere that Heathrow Express most certainly are *not* passing LUL ticket holders or PAYG users during the strike. OK, thanks. So FGW/ HC from Paddington to Hayes & Harlington, then bus from directly outside the station to Heathrow it is then! |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 8:40*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
I am sure I have read somewhere that Heathrow Express most certainly are *not* passing LUL ticket holders or PAYG users during the strike. Well HEx are not really a TOC in the formal sense of the term ... they can really do what they wish. Best think of HEx as the people mover to LHR Terminal 0. -- Nick |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On Jun 9, 9:48*pm, wrote: On Jun 9, 8:40*pm, Paul Corfield wrote: I am sure I have read somewhere that Heathrow Express most certainly are *not* passing LUL ticket holders or PAYG users during the strike. Well HEx are not really a TOC in the formal sense of the term ... they can really do what they wish. Best think of HEx as the people mover to LHR Terminal 0. That's all true - the point I made in my earlier comments is that I think passengers might not make this distinction, so when they hear that Oyster PAYG is being accepted "on all National Rail journeys within Greater London" as TfL are declaring they might think they can use HEx with an Oyster card. That said, it's possible TfL's blanket declaration is a bit dodgy too. Hard to say without having seen the text of the agreement, and said text is presumably commercially confidential. (Regardless TfL perhaps have a get out clause in that they could turn round and say that HEx doesn't fall within the commonly understood meaning of "National Rail" anyway.) My other thought is that BAA's business does rather rely on their staff and customers being able to reach Heathrow. But from what Paul has said, it seems HEx is excluded. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
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Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
wrote in message
... I got myself and bike from Vauxhall to my mother's in Putney tonight using my Oyster card. At both barriers I got "Seek Assistance" from it so they just shrugged and let me through for free. -- Colin Rosenstiel I know someone who had a similar experience doing return trip from Penge to Victoria. D A Stocks |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
I went from London Bridge to Charing Cross today, showing my Oyster card
at the manned barrier at Charing Cross. The man on duty told me to touch it on the pad, but I refused pointing out that I had not touched in (as I changed directly from a FCC train there). He asked me where I had come from: London Bridge was obviously the correct answer, as he then let me through. This does suggest that SE trains were being selective in allowing Oyster card usage. -- Clive Page |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
On 11 June, 20:46, Clive Page wrote:
I went from London Bridge to Charing Cross today, showing my Oyster card at the manned barrier at Charing Cross. *The man on duty told me to touch it on the pad, but I refused pointing out that I had not touched in (as I changed directly from a FCC train there). *He asked me where I had come from: London Bridge was obviously the correct answer, as he then let me through. *This does suggest that SE trains were being selective in allowing Oyster card usage. I undistinctly heard an announcement at Peckham Rye today, which may have referred to Southern or South Eastern or both, saying that PAYG would be accepted as long as your journey was similar to your LU route, or something on those lines. As for touching at Charing Cross, your Oyster would simply be rejected unless it had a valid Travelcard on it. It wouldn't have resulted in an unstarted PAYG journey. I don't know why staff would suggest that you touched unless they assumed that you had a Travelcard. |
Oyster PASYG on National rail during tube srike
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