Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

In summary, is it that trains stop running by 19:00 or start declining
from then?

I ask because I am confused by the accounts so far.

Eg TFL say on their website

"The RMT leadership plan a strike from 18:59 on Tuesday 9 June to 18:58
on Thursday 11 June, with normal services resuming on the morning of
Friday 12 June.
Customers using the Underground on the Tuesday evening are advised to
finish their journeys by 19:00 to ensure they get home, as services are
likely to decline after this time."

Now I know I'm an old pedant but if they are on strike from 18:59 it'll
be a little odd to find any of them still driving trains after 19:00.

Is it more in the nature of a rolling stoppage with staff walking out as
and when they reach the end of the line? If so, when do station staff
walk out and force station closures?

--
R (a.k.a. confused of Hackney)

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

neverwas wrote:
In summary, is it that trains stop running by 19:00 or start declining
from then?

I ask because I am confused by the accounts so far.

Eg TFL say on their website

"The RMT leadership plan a strike from 18:59 on Tuesday 9 June to
18:58 on Thursday 11 June, with normal services resuming on the
morning of Friday 12 June.
Customers using the Underground on the Tuesday evening are advised to
finish their journeys by 19:00 to ensure they get home, as services
are likely to decline after this time."

Now I know I'm an old pedant but if they are on strike from 18:59
it'll be a little odd to find any of them still driving trains after
19:00.
Is it more in the nature of a rolling stoppage with staff walking out
as and when they reach the end of the line? If so, when do station
staff walk out and force station closures?

Any staff who start their shift before 1859 Tuesday will continue to work
until the end of their shift. Staff who are supposed to start their shift
after 1859 will remain at home, preparing themselves to watch Wednesday's
England Andorra match on TV. On Thursday, any staff due to start their shift
before 1858 will not start their shift, so services will remain severly
disrupted until night closure.

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

On Jun 9, 9:34*am, "neverwas" wrote:
In summary, is it that trains stop running by 19:00 or start declining
from then?
[snip]

I'd imagine we won't really know for sure until this evening, not that
that's going to be particularly helpful for journey planning...
During the last strike in September 2007, services began winding down
throughout the afternoon for an official 1800 start[1] - and I
remember there being rumours going round work with the times of the
last trains from the nearest station into town (which turned out to be
correct)


[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6974841.stm

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

"Basil Jet" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Staff who are supposed to start their shift after 1859 will remain at
home, preparing themselves to watch Wednesday's England Andorra match
on TV.

I'm sure that's a total coincidence...

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

Adrian wrote:
"Basil Jet" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Staff who are supposed to start their shift after 1859 will remain at
home, preparing themselves to watch Wednesday's England Andorra match
on TV.

I'm sure that's a total coincidence...

The police have ordered that no tickets be sold on the door at the Wembley
event, to reduce the number of people driving to the area during the strike.
So when the RMT are sitting at home watching the match on TV, those empty
seats in the stadium will be their fault.

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

On Jun 9, 11:34*am, "Basil Jet"
wrote:

Adrian wrote:

"Basil Jet" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Staff who are supposed to start their shift after 1859 will remain at
home, preparing themselves to watch Wednesday's England Andorra match
on TV.

I'm sure that's a total coincidence...

The police have ordered that no tickets be sold on the door at the Wembley
event, to reduce the number of people driving to the area during the strike.
So when the RMT are sitting at home watching the match on TV, those empty
seats in the stadium will be their fault.

The FA suspended selling tickets in advance last week - see:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8082106.stm

However it's not quite right to say that the police have ordered that
no tickets be sold on the door. Brent council have to issue a stadium
safety certificate, which it appears they have not yet done - talks
are going on between the FA, the police and Brent council to work out
what to do. A remote possibility is that it'll be played out behind
closed doors - see this Guardian report:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ndorra-wembley

Incidentally, may I kindly and politely suggest that those who are
saying the strike was timed to coincide with the football match are
perhaps not really au-fait with the relative unimportance of this
match - it's against Andorra, who ain't any good, and is hardly one of
the mighty contests in the footballing world. Yes, it's still
important in terms of qualifying for the 2010 world cup, but England
currently look on course to do that.

If RMT bods really had wanted to time the strike to coincide with an
England football match, then it would have been an away football match
- i.e. overseas, not at Wembley. Instead, I'd actually say the timing
seems particularly counter-productive as it will manage to raise the
ire of many more people apart from London commuters, as those watching
the match at home ('tis on ITV) will be well aware that it's the RMT's
actions that will have led to the stadium being half-empty - something
that never looks good on TV and will undoubtedly be referred to by
commentators and newspapers so football fans will know where the blame
lies.

Of course the flip-side is that the RMT may well have chosen the dates
specifically to coincide with the match, so as to maximise the threat
of a strike. Well, their bluff has been called. Just as well the
football season is over, as otherwise I can imagine LU staff getting
harranged by football fans going from and to domestic fixtures.

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

Mizter T gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Incidentally, may I kindly and politely suggest that those who are
saying the strike was timed to coincide with the football match are
perhaps not really au-fait with the relative unimportance of this match
- it's against Andorra, who ain't any good, and is hardly one of the
mighty contests in the footballing world.

Exactly. It's one of the very rare chances to watch England win.

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

"Mizter T" wrote in message



If RMT bods really had wanted to time the strike to coincide with an
England football match, then it would have been an away football match
- i.e. overseas, not at Wembley. Instead, I'd actually say the timing
seems particularly counter-productive as it will manage to raise the
ire of many more people apart from London commuters, as those watching
the match at home ('tis on ITV) will be well aware that it's the RMT's
actions that will have led to the stadium being half-empty - something
that never looks good on TV and will undoubtedly be referred to by
commentators and newspapers so football fans will know where the blame
lies.

But surely Brother Crow loves such opportunities to publicly demonstrate
his power?

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

Adrian wrote:
Mizter T gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Incidentally, may I kindly and politely suggest that those who are
saying the strike was timed to coincide with the football match are
perhaps not really au-fait with the relative unimportance of this match
- it's against Andorra, who ain't any good, and is hardly one of the
mighty contests in the footballing world.

Exactly. It's one of the very rare chances to watch England win.


You're obviously completely out of touch with football, as the England
side have had their best start to World Cup qualifying for some years.

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:04:00 +0100
"Basil Jet" wrote:
Any staff who start their shift before 1859 Tuesday will continue to work
until the end of their shift. Staff who are supposed to start their shift
after 1859 will remain at home, preparing themselves to watch Wednesday's
England Andorra match on TV. On Thursday, any staff due to start their shift
before 1858 will not start their shift, so services will remain severly
disrupted until night closure.

Though we live in hope that 1 or 2 of them may grow a pair, ignore the RMT
******* and actually turn up for work but I won't hold my breath.

And can someone explain why Aslef members arn't showing up? Theres enough of
them to run a bit more than a skeleton service. Or are they showing "solidarity"
or whatever lefty ******** phrase is trendy these days with their "brothers"
in the RMT even though they didn't vote for a strike? In which case why don't
they just join the RMT.

B2003

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

On Jun 9, 1:49*pm, "Recliner" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

If RMT bods really had wanted to time the strike to coincide with an
England football match, then it would have been an away football match
- i.e. overseas, not at Wembley. Instead, I'd actually say the timing
seems particularly counter-productive as it will manage to raise the
ire of many more people apart from London commuters, as those watching
the match at home ('tis on ITV) will be well aware that it's the RMT's
actions that will have led to the stadium being half-empty - something
that never looks good on TV and will undoubtedly be referred to by
commentators and newspapers so football fans will know where the blame
lies.

But surely Brother Crow loves such opportunities to publicly demonstrate
his power?

Maybe. Doesn't help to win over the fellow football-supporting working
man and woman though, does it?

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

On Jun 9, 2:34*pm, wrote:
Though we live in hope that 1 or 2 of them may grow a pair, ignore the RMT
******* and actually turn up for work but I won't hold my breath.

And can someone explain why Aslef members arn't showing up? Theres enough of
them to run a bit more than a skeleton service. Or are they showing "solidarity"
or whatever lefty ******** phrase is trendy these days with their "brothers"
in the RMT even though they didn't vote for a strike? In which case why don't
they just join the RMT.

AIUI Aslef and TSSA staff will show up as normal, but because critical
functions like signalling are dominated by RMT members they're
unlikely to be able to run many trains.

Taking a strike day off when you're not a member of the union that
voted for it is legally not on, post-Thatcher.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

On Jun 9, 3:43*pm, wrote:

On Jun 9, 2:34*pm, wrote:

Though we live in hope that 1 or 2 of them may grow a pair, ignore the RMT
******* and actually turn up for work but I won't hold my breath.

And can someone explain why Aslef members arn't showing up? Theres enough of
them to run a bit more than a skeleton service. Or are they showing "solidarity"
or whatever lefty ******** phrase is trendy these days with their "brothers"
in the RMT even though they didn't vote for a strike? In which case why don't
they just join the RMT.

AIUI Aslef and TSSA staff will show up as normal, but because critical
functions like signalling are dominated by RMT members they're
unlikely to be able to run many trains.

I thought there had been some knowledgeable talk that Aslef members
might refuse to cross RMT picket lines?


Taking a strike day off when you're not a member of the union that
voted for it is legally not on, post-Thatcher.

And then I'd wondered about that very point.

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

On Jun 9, 3:53*pm, Mizter T wrote:
AIUI Aslef and TSSA staff will show up as normal, but because critical
functions like signalling are dominated by RMT members they're
unlikely to be able to run many trains.

I thought there had been some knowledgeable talk that Aslef members
might refuse to cross RMT picket lines?

Hadn't seen anything here, but that doesn't mean nobody's mentioned
it. I'd based my assertion on the rules plus the fact I hadn't heard
anything about the above.

Taking a strike day off when you're not a member of the union that
voted for it is legally not on, post-Thatcher.

And then I'd wondered about that very point.

Semi-relatedly, these people reckon that these services will run:
http://londonunlocked.org/?p=870

o Jubilee – no more than 25% running

o Northern – 50-60% running

o Piccadilly – Extreme ends only but not including Heathrow.

o Bakerloo – May be able to run 20% service on Wed; possibility of
running Wembley Central to Baker Street.

o Central – 40-50% of services, perhaps between White City/Ealing
Broadway to Epping.

o Metropolitan – 20% max; due to signalling Aylesbury branch of
Chiltern Line could be affected.

o City and Hammersmith – 13 trains.

o District – Less than 20%.

o Waterloo and City – unlikely to operate.

o Victoria – unlikely to operate.

Based on what, is not entirely clear.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

Well as you said - based on what? Look at what has happened already -
the Bakerloo was shut before the official start of the strike - and
I'll be gobsmacked if any of the lines get remotely close to those
predictions. All that has to happen is for there to be no maintenance
cover or no signalling staff and it's irrelevant how many drivers and
station people turn up.

Thanks for all the comments.

Further bleat for the record: TFL's publicity about the Overground
running as usual was silent about station closures (eg Highbury &
Islington). Will the wannabe Damian McBrides ever learn that spin only
works if the punters don't see that it is spin?
--
R

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

On Jun 9, 8:56*pm, "neverwas" wrote:
Well as you said - based on what? *Look at what has happened already -
the Bakerloo was shut before the official start of the strike - and
I'll be gobsmacked if any of the lines get remotely close to those
predictions. *All that has to happen is for there to be no maintenance
cover or no signalling staff and it's irrelevant how many drivers and
station people turn up.

Thanks for all the comments.

Further bleat for the record: TFL's publicity about the Overground
running as usual was silent about station closures (eg Highbury &
Islington). *Will the wannabe Damian McBrides ever learn that spin only
works if the punters don't see that it is spin?


The only strike related message on the "Current Overground network
status" page on the TfL website has this to say:
---quote---
A MESSAGE FOR LONDON OVERGROUND (STRIKE ACTION): A full service will
operate with the exception that trains will not stop at Blackhorse
Road as the station is closed. Additional services will operate where
possible.
---/quote---

Apart from the somewhat strange way it's phrased, it makes no mention
of any LUL managed station on the LO network being closed apart from
Blackhorse Road (which Paul C has previously mentioned as likely to
simply be closed).

Or maybe the strange phrasing indicates it's an instruction from on
high to the minions at LO - you *will* run a full service tomorrow,
regardless of the facts on the ground! i.e. it's a kind of exercise of
mind over matter?

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

To be fair Highbury will be targeted to try to keep it open so let's
wait and see. I have read elsewhere that the working assumption is
that former Silverlink but now LU run stations will be open but
possibly unstaffed - as in Silverlink days and Overground trains will
serve them. Again let's wait and see.

My partner's recollection is that the sign she saw at H&I this afternoon
indicated the station "will be closed". But I'll certainly try to be
fair - if grumpy.

And having seen Mizter T's post, perhaps the sign was the RMT's response
to TFL's mind control exercise. I just hope they haven't both hired
some ex-CIA spook with a good story and a boxful of copies of Catcher in
the Rye.

--
R

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

On Jun 9, 9:41*pm, "neverwas" wrote:

To be fair Highbury will be targeted to try to keep it open so let's
wait and see. I have read elsewhere that the working assumption is
that former Silverlink but now LU run stations will be open but
possibly unstaffed - as in Silverlink days and Overground trains will
serve them. Again let's wait and see.

My partner's recollection is that the sign she saw at H&I this afternoon
indicated the station "will be closed". *But I'll certainly try to be
fair - if grumpy.

And having seen Mizter T's post, perhaps the sign was the RMT's response
to TFL's mind control exercise. *I just hope they haven't both hired
some ex-CIA spook with a good story and a boxful of copies of Catcher in
the Rye.

The ex-CIA spook with a (fairly) good story is no longer on the TfL
payroll - Bob Kiley stood down as Transport Commissioner in January
'06, but was kept on as a consultant for some time - however I think
that arrangement ended some time ago. Though I suppose that's what
they'd want you to think...there's some mysterious lines in the TfL
budget, the stationary department buried in the basement of TfL's HQ
doesn't appear to have noticed that there's an economy drive on...
hmm.

The National Rail LDBs for H&I don't indicate that trains are not
stopping there - but that said it's an automated system so wouldn't
necessarily indicate whether or not the station is shut. However,
neither TfL's live travel news pages nor the National Rail disruption
page currently single out H&I as being closed.

Though I don't particularly rate the TfL "Current Overground network
status" page as being on the ball as it doesn't say anything about
North Wembley, Wembley Central or Stonebridge Park being closed this
evening to prevent overcrowding re the England match being played at
Wembley - instead it only mentions Blackhorse Road being closed, and
anyway the NR disruption page currently says this "Blackhorse Road
station is currently open for London Overground services, but may be
closed at short notice."

FWIW, the "Current Overground network status" page is he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravel...l/default.html

Tube strike: clarification of start time(s)?
 

...there's some mysterious lines in the TfL
budget, the stationary department buried in the basement of TfL's HQ
doesn't appear to have noticed that there's an economy drive on...
hmm.

Oh I *do* wish you hadn't mentioned that. I think I've now got to burn
down the house and head for the Highlands......

FWIW, the "Current Overground network status" page is he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravel...l/default.html

yes, thanks. We've been monitoring that but decided to sit the strike
out. (One of the v. few advantages of being late-50s NEETs is the
ability quickly to enter Giant Sloth mode.)

--
R