Petert wrote on 14 June 2009 22:24:35 ...
On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:26:42 +0100, Tom Barry
wrote:


Also that there's now consideration given to covering up the rear
platform at night. Where I come from that's called a 'door', Boris (the
real reason is probably to save staff costs at times when the bus is
lightly loaded - someone's probably drawn up a cost estimate for running
the bus with two crew on 24 hour routes, and it has rather too many
noughts at the end).

As someone from outside London who's knowledge of public transport
there is admittedly limited, can you explain why a borisbus would need
to be double crewed?

Because an open rear platform (à la Routemaster) has been specified as
an essential requirement. The conductor is needed, for safety reasons,
to supervise this. That's the official view anyway.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:36:17 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Petert wrote on 14 June 2009 22:24:35 ...
On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:26:42 +0100, Tom Barry
wrote:


Also that there's now consideration given to covering up the rear
platform at night. Where I come from that's called a 'door', Boris (the
real reason is probably to save staff costs at times when the bus is
lightly loaded - someone's probably drawn up a cost estimate for running
the bus with two crew on 24 hour routes, and it has rather too many
noughts at the end).

As someone from outside London who's knowledge of public transport
there is admittedly limited, can you explain why a borisbus would need
to be double crewed?

Because an open rear platform (à la Routemaster) has been specified as
an essential requirement. The conductor is needed, for safety reasons,
to supervise this. That's the official view anyway.

OK, thanks
--
Cheers

Peter

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:36:17 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

As someone from outside London who's knowledge of public transport
there is admittedly limited, can you explain why a borisbus would need
to be double crewed?

Because an open rear platform (à la Routemaster) has been specified as
an essential requirement. The conductor is needed, for safety reasons,
to supervise this. That's the official view anyway.

And the platform is seen as desirable because it speeds embarkation
and disembarkation, since tickets can be sold while the bus is on the
move (although in these days of lobster cards it's not quite clear how
significant that is).

I remember seeing the prototype Daimler DMS at Earls Court Motor Show,
it had a turnstile on the middle door. I don't know if that made it
into production. Anyone here know?

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote on 14 June 2009
23:02:52 ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:36:17 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

As someone from outside London who's knowledge of public transport
there is admittedly limited, can you explain why a borisbus would need
to be double crewed?

Because an open rear platform (à la Routemaster) has been specified as
an essential requirement. The conductor is needed, for safety reasons,
to supervise this. That's the official view anyway.

And the platform is seen as desirable because it speeds embarkation
and disembarkation, since tickets can be sold while the bus is on the
move (although in these days of lobster cards it's not quite clear how
significant that is).

Very few people seem to pay cash these days (outside the central area
where you can't do so anyway), so I think that's a non-issue. I don't
really see how dwell times at stops would be significantly reduced by
having a rear platform. The whole thing seems to be an ill-justified
populist gesture.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

"Richard J." wrote:
Very few people seem to pay cash these days (outside the central area
where you can't do so anyway), so I think that's a non-issue. I don't
really see how dwell times at stops would be significantly reduced by
having a rear platform. The whole thing seems to be an ill-justified
populist gesture.


.... one that was suggested by an ill-justified populist!

In message , at 22:40:37
on Sun, 14 Jun 2009, Richard J. remarked:
I don't really see how dwell times at stops would be significantly
reduced by having a rear platform.

Because people can get on and off whenever the bus stops, and not have
to wait until it's got all the way to the official bus stop and then
opened its doors. Especially if it's stuck in traffic, most of the
getting on and off will happen away from the official bus stops.
--
Roland Perry

Richard J. wrote:


As someone from outside London who's knowledge of public transport
there is admittedly limited, can you explain why a borisbus would need
to be double crewed?

Because an open rear platform (à la Routemaster) has been specified as
an essential requirement. The conductor is needed, for safety reasons,
to supervise this. That's the official view anyway.


Also, for political reasons, as Boris has tied the reintroduction of a
second crew member to his safety on public transport agenda (yes, I
know). A lot of the public expect a conductor to be present as a result
of the PR and media coverage of the story, so retreating from that is
going to take the best brains at Boris's disposal (who are in his PR
team, obviously).

He was talking about using PCSOs a few months ago. I've suggested using
the Scouts.

Tom

Roland Perry wrote on 15 June 2009 09:54:24 ...
In message , at 22:40:37
on Sun, 14 Jun 2009, Richard J. remarked:
I don't really see how dwell times at stops would be significantly
reduced by having a rear platform.

Because people can get on and off whenever the bus stops, and not have
to wait until it's got all the way to the official bus stop and then
opened its doors. Especially if it's stuck in traffic, most of the
getting on and off will happen away from the official bus stops.

Surely it will be mainly getting off that will happen like that? Most
people will wait at bus stops, and the dwell time to enable them to load
will be little affected.

You're suggesting that the rear platform will be used for entry as well
as exit. If so, you'll have longer dwell times due to conflicting flows.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:54:24 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:


In message , at 22:40:37
on Sun, 14 Jun 2009, Richard J. remarked:
I don't really see how dwell times at stops would be significantly
reduced by having a rear platform.

Because people can get on and off whenever the bus stops, and not have
to wait until it's got all the way to the official bus stop and then
opened its doors. Especially if it's stuck in traffic, most of the
getting on and off will happen away from the official bus stops.

Of course the chance of this being allowed these days with elf and softies
paranoia is zero so its all a bit academic.

B2003

wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:54:24 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 22:40:37
on Sun, 14 Jun 2009, Richard J. remarked:
I don't really see how dwell times at stops would be significantly
reduced by having a rear platform.
Because people can get on and off whenever the bus stops, and not have
to wait until it's got all the way to the official bus stop and then
opened its doors. Especially if it's stuck in traffic, most of the
getting on and off will happen away from the official bus stops.

Of course the chance of this being allowed these days with elf and softies
paranoia is zero so its all a bit academic.

B2003


The same way that there are no open-back Routemasters in service in
London any more. Oh hang on a minute, there are those two heritage
routes operated in exactly that manner (and at vast expense compared to
conventionally operated routes, but there you go).

Tom