In message , at 15:24:12 on Sat, 4
Jul 2009, Basil Jet remarked:
The Thameslink Line is little used as a through route. I can't remember the
exact percentage quoted in the TL2000 inquiry, but something like 95-97% of
TL journeys start or end in Zone 1. TL2k won't change that. The point of TL
and TL2k is giving people from north and south access to numerous stations
across the central area - giving the north access to the south is a largely
unused side-effect.

I think there would be a few examples of extra flows - for example
people north of London heading to/from Gatwick. It's much better now
that there's step-free access from KX to SPILL, but once you have
through trains from the ECML and WA corridor, and maybe an extension of
the MML electrification to Leicester, business will pick up.
--
Roland Perry

"Basil Jet" wrote

The WLL doesn't have major employment or entertainment centres on it
(apart from Westfield on a Saturday), so will never have the demand of
Thameslink.
Earl's Court? Olympia? Chelsea FC? And the Watford/Milton Keynes trains stop
at Wembley Central.

Peter

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

snip

NSE would have got to grips with introducing Oyster
PAYG on suburban rail services a very long time ago!

Good god I'm glad that they didn't, why are so many people so
complacent at making interest free loans to utilities and
transport companies - as for PAYG, WTF do you think turning up at
station, buying ticket, getting on train is - the railways got
the hang of PAYG travel over a 100 years ago!
--
BBC = Biased Broadcasting Corporation...
Time for the BBC tax to be repealed.
Sorry, mail to this address goes unread.
Please reply via group.

In message , at 15:57:22 on
Sat, 4 Jul 2009, Jerry remarked:
as for PAYG, WTF do you think turning up at
station, buying ticket, getting on train is - the railways got
the hang of PAYG travel over a 100 years ago!

Chorus: "Oh no they haven't". Witness when I turned up at Gatwick
station on an unexceptional mid-evening recently, to find a queue
six-deep at every ticket machine.
--
Roland Perry

"Basil Jet" wrote:
Tony Polson wrote:

Absolutely. I think it is a shame that better use is not made of the
West London line as a third major north-south route.

Are the existing trains on the WLL crowded enough to warrant more?


With the current service, the trains are not sufficiently frequent to
draw people from using a wide range of alternatives, including the
Underground, other National Rail lines, buses and the car. I believe a
much more frequent core Watford Junction to East Croydon service would
attract many more people but there apparently isn't enough capacity
between Clapham Junction and East Croydon.


The Thameslink Line is little used as a through route. I can't remember the
exact percentage quoted in the TL2000 inquiry, but something like 95-97% of
TL journeys start or end in Zone 1. TL2k won't change that. The point of TL
and TL2k is giving people from north and south access to numerous stations
across the central area - giving the north access to the south is a largely
unused side-effect.


Even if 95-97% of TL journeys start or end in Zone 1, so what? Compared
to the situation before Thameslink, where trains from the north went no
further south than St Pancras, and trains from the south went no further
north than Blackfriars, the route offers a wealth of north-south
opportunities that simply didn't exist before without changing trains at
least once.

For example, St Albans (or anywhere points north) to Farringdon, City
Thameslink and London Bridge. Or Redhill (or anywhere points south) to
City Thameslink, Farringdon and Kings Cross/St Pancras. These new
journey opportunities are of immense value, and the fact that they start
or end in Zone 1 is completely irrelevant.


The WLL doesn't have major employment or entertainment
centres on it (apart from Westfield on a Saturday), so will never have the
demand of Thameslink.


No, it won't ever match the demand for Thameslink, but as Peter Masson
rightly pointed out, there is no shortage of retail, entertainment and
other employment and leisure centres on the route. But as long as
radial routes offer vastly more frequent services, those are the routes
that people will choose to take. A much more frequent service between
Watford Junction to East Croydon would make the West London route far
more attractive than it is.

Perhaps comparison should be made with the East London Line rather than
Thameslink?

On Sat, 4 Jul 2009, Tony Polson wrote:

The days of conviction politicians have gone, I think.

Oh i don't know - i think we might yet get a few convictions out of the
espenses debacle!

tom

--
I fought the law and the law won.

"Tony Polson" wrote

No, it won't ever match the demand for Thameslink, but as Peter Masson
rightly pointed out, there is no shortage of retail, entertainment and
other employment and leisure centres on the route. But as long as
radial routes offer vastly more frequent services, those are the routes
that people will choose to take. A much more frequent service between
Watford Junction to East Croydon would make the West London route far
more attractive than it is.

Perhaps comparison should be made with the East London Line rather than
Thameslink?

What happened to the suggestion of Slow Line platforms at Willesden
Junction? There aren't the paths for a 4 tph service between Watford
Junction and East Croydon, either on the WCML or the WLL. But if LM trains
called at Willesden Junction, a 4 tph LO service from Willesden Junction HL
to Clapham Junction, preferably running through to East Croydon (perhaps
alternately via Selhurst and via Crystal Palace) could give all users of the
WLL a better service. There is also a need for Willesden Junction to Ealing
Broadway trains, perhaps (subject to rearrangement at Gospel Oak) running
through from Barking to Greenford.

Peter

"Peter Masson" wrote:

"Tony Polson" wrote

No, it won't ever match the demand for Thameslink, but as Peter Masson
rightly pointed out, there is no shortage of retail, entertainment and
other employment and leisure centres on the route. But as long as
radial routes offer vastly more frequent services, those are the routes
that people will choose to take. A much more frequent service between
Watford Junction to East Croydon would make the West London route far
more attractive than it is.

Perhaps comparison should be made with the East London Line rather than
Thameslink?

What happened to the suggestion of Slow Line platforms at Willesden
Junction? There aren't the paths for a 4 tph service between Watford
Junction and East Croydon, either on the WCML or the WLL. But if LM trains
called at Willesden Junction, a 4 tph LO service from Willesden Junction HL
to Clapham Junction, preferably running through to East Croydon (perhaps
alternately via Selhurst and via Crystal Palace) could give all users of the
WLL a better service.


True.


There is also a need for Willesden Junction to Ealing
Broadway trains, perhaps (subject to rearrangement at Gospel Oak) running
through from Barking to Greenford.


Now there's an idea! Such a service would go a long way towards making
up for Greenford's loss of through services with Crossrail. Interesting!

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jul 2009, Tony Polson wrote:

The days of conviction politicians have gone, I think.

Oh i don't know - i think we might yet get a few convictions out of the
espenses debacle!


I hope you're right! ;-)

But I yearn for those days when at least some politicians (but by no
means all) had the courage of their convictions and acted and voted
according to them.

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...


"Basil Jet" wrote

The WLL doesn't have major employment or entertainment centres on it
(apart from Westfield on a Saturday), so will never have the demand of
Thameslink.
Earl's Court? Olympia? Chelsea FC? And the Watford/Milton Keynes trains
stop at Wembley Central.

Add the BBC to the list. I was recently contemplating the possibility of a
daily commute between Brighton and Hanger Lane, for which the WLL would be
incredibly convenient, if only the Brighton peak hour trains still called at
CLJ!

D A Stocks