In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On Jul 14, 9:18*pm, wrote:

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:
In message , at
18:55:04 on Mon, 13 Jul 2009,
remarked:
MPs' staff salaries are already paid by Parliament (says he looking
at wife's payslip). They are employed by the MPs, though.

The plan is for Parliament to employ the staff. This is leading to
utter confusion on how MPs decide who works for them.

Won't they decide the same was as now? Then tell Parliament. The
problem is, how is that better than the current scheme?

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Apparently someone in the Parliamentary
bureaucracy thinks otherwise and there is a real danger the scheme
will be substantially worse.

So speaketh a small c conservative....

Not really. It confirms that no-one in the Great Gas Factory has a clue
about employing people.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In Roland Perry writes:

In message , at 10:57:22 on
Tue, 14 Jul 2009, Recliner remarked:

- "Public" schools, which are actually expensive private schools. This
really confuses Americans, for whom public schools are the free ones
provided by the state.

Public schools in the UK are open to the public (who can afford to pay
etc) just like "public transport".

But so, usually, are "private schools" :-) .

--
Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------
Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl
Email: Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K.
PGP: 2C15F1A9 Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5

In i Tom Anderson writes:

And, as you are in the process of explaining, hence the term 'public', as
opposed to the only other schools which existed before them, the grammar
schools (although i'm not sure if they were called that then), which had
entrance exams (and mostly still do).

Strictly speaking, I think the term "public school" is defined as

A private school whose headmaster (or now mistress) is a member of the
Headmasters' Conference.

There may also be a requirement/expectation that it is a not-for-profit
(and likely also a registered charity).

--
Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------
Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl
Email: Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K.
PGP: 2C15F1A9 Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5

Recliner wrote:

As you say, there are many other British class-based terms that confuse
even other native English speakers, for example:
- "Public" schools, which are actually expensive private schools. This
really confuses Americans, for whom public schools are the free ones
provided by the state.

Well they in turn confuse us with "prep school" (and "preppie" for someone
who's been to one) as in the US these schools are for getting people into
prestigious universities whereas in the UK they're for c6-13 to get them
into the public and higher private schools.

We also hand out large numbers of medals for membership (etc) of the
non-existent British Empire,

I know the name's not mentioned but don't our overseas territories and
possesions still count? I saw one explanation of time zones that shows the
sun still hasn't set on it!

I though it a particular scandal that the disgraced Michael Martin almost
immediately becomes Lord Martin.

Blame your MP for that one. Retiring Speakers get a peerage not on the
recommendation of the government but because the House of Commons passes a
resolution to directly ask the monarch to give them one. The motion always
goes through unopposed.

Charles Lindsey wrote:

Strictly speaking, I think the term "public school" is defined as

A private school whose headmaster (or now mistress) is a member of the
Headmasters' Conference.

There may also be a requirement/expectation that it is a not-for-profit
(and likely also a registered charity).

There isn't a single universal definition and it's confused further by a lot
of the schools in question seemingly going out of their way to avoid using
the term and instead declaring they are an "independent school", which is
really synonomous with "private school". Not all private schools are in the
HMC, which also contains some non private schools (e.g. the London Oratory).
And not all are registered charities - a significant number (including my
old prep school) are run as businesses by Cognita.

A "public school" is generally one that teaches from about 13 upwards, with
the earlier tiers being "preparatory school" (or "prep school") from about
c7-13 (called prepatory because they are preparing pupils for the entrance
exams) and "pre-prep" from c3-7. Note this contrasts with the US where "prep
schools" are for university preparation (a specific concept that doesn't
really exist in the UK) and in their class system ex prep school pupils
occupy a similar place to "public school old boys".

However not all c13 upwards private schools are considered "public
schools" - it's very rare to hear the term used for any all-girls school.
And quite a lot of people will argue that a particular school is or isn't a
"public school" on the basis of one list or another, usually from the 19th
century (thus excluding all 20th and 21st century establishments) such as
the Clarendon Commission or the Public Schools Yearbook.

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote

However not all c13 upwards private schools are considered "public
schools" - it's very rare to hear the term used for any all-girls school.

Though many of the top independent girls' day schools come under the aegis
of the Girls Public Day Schools Trust.

Peter

Peter Masson wrote:

However not all c13 upwards private schools are considered "public
schools" - it's very rare to hear the term used for any all-girls school.

Though many of the top independent girls' day schools come under the aegis
of the Girls Public Day Schools Trust.

....which dropped "Public" from its title back in 1998. Most of the GDST
schools have a much broader age range from about 3 to 18, reflecting
different arrangements in the girls' private sector (I think these were
largely driven by the GDST itself). "Public Day School" is a phrase that
seems to be almost exclusively linked to the GDST and of course these are
day schools whereas public schools have traditionally been associated with
boarding. It all just adds to the chaos and confusion.

In message , at 09:30:24 on Wed, 15 Jul
2009, Charles Lindsey remarked:
Public schools in the UK are open to the public (who can afford to pay
etc) just like "public transport".

But so, usually, are "private schools" :-)

Is a "private hire" car (aka minicab) public transport?
--
Roland Perry

On Jul 15, 3:16*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 09:30:24 on Wed, 15 Jul
2009, Charles Lindsey remarked:

Public schools in the UK are open to the public (who can afford to pay
etc) just like "public transport".

But so, usually, are "private schools" :-)

Is a "private hire" car (aka minicab) public transport?


Yes. And No. Hope everyone's satisfied with that answer!

In Roland Perry writes:

Is a "private hire" car (aka minicab) public transport?

Not unless you can walk up to one in the street and request immediate
transport to some destination (i.e. unless it is a "Hackney Carriage").

--
Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------
Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl
Email: Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K.
PGP: 2C15F1A9 Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5