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Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
Sky News are reporting another Tube derailment, this time at Camden Town,
affecting the Bank branch of the Northern Line. They mentioned "walking wounded". |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
"Nicholas F Hodder" wrote in message
Sky News are reporting another Tube derailment, this time at Camden Town, affecting the Bank branch of the Northern Line. They mentioned "walking wounded". The two recent Tube derailments have both been on JNP tracks -- are these maintained by Jarvis, which is a member of Tubelines? |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
In article , Nicholas F
Hodder wrote: Sky News are reporting another Tube derailment, this time at Camden Town, affecting the Bank branch of the Northern Line. They mentioned "walking wounded". I was going to go to Tottenham Court Road today.. now I don't think I'll bother. Bloody hell, what next? -- | grendel at durge dot org | web technologist | london, uk | "It's people like you what cause unrest" |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
"Nigel Pendse" wrote the following
in: "Nicholas F Hodder" wrote in message Sky News are reporting another Tube derailment, this time at Camden Town, affecting the Bank branch of the Northern Line. They mentioned "walking wounded". The two recent Tube derailments have both been on JNP tracks -- are these maintained by Jarvis, which is a member of Tubelines? Hmm, JNP tracks? So they manage the Jubilee, Northern and Piccadilly? Jubilee: catastrophic signal failures Piccadilly: derailment Northern: derailment And that's just in the past week! Is PPP really such a good idea? -- message by Robin May, consumer of liquids Hello. I'm one of those "roaring fascists of the left wing". Hacker is to computer as boy racer is to Ford Escort. |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
Is PPP really such a good idea?
Who, with anything called "brains" between their ears has actually argued that P.P.P. is a good idea? Marc. |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
The two recent Tube derailments have both been on JNP tracks -- are these
maintained by Jarvis, which is a member of Tubelines? I take it that you use the word "maintained" in its loosest sense! Marc. |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
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Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
Nigel Pendse wrote:
"Nicholas F Hodder" wrote in message Sky News are reporting another Tube derailment, this time at Camden Town, affecting the Bank branch of the Northern Line. They mentioned "walking wounded". BBCi News says 6 injured, one with a broken leg. The two recent Tube derailments have both been on JNP tracks -- are these maintained by Jarvis, which is a member of Tubelines? The Hammersmith/Barons Court derailment was on track maintained by Metronet SSL, as it's a part of the line where there are both District and Piccadilly tracks. Metronet SSL were also the maintainer of the track at Chiswick Park, where an engineering train was derailed earlier this year, though to be fair that wasn't long after they took over. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
In message , Nigel Pendse
writes Sky News are reporting another Tube derailment, this time at Camden Town, affecting the Bank branch of the Northern Line. They mentioned "walking wounded". The two recent Tube derailments have both been on JNP tracks -- are these maintained by Jarvis, which is a member of Tubelines? Where the Picc train derailed is on the part of the track maintained by Metronet as part of SSL. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
On 19 Oct 2003 10:23:03 GMT, Robin May
wrote: "Nigel Pendse" wrote the following in: The two recent Tube derailments have both been on JNP tracks -- are these maintained by Jarvis, which is a member of Tubelines? Hmm, JNP tracks? So they manage the Jubilee, Northern and Piccadilly? Jubilee: catastrophic signal failures Piccadilly: derailment I would point out, for the sake of accuracy, that Metronet maintain the tracks where the Piccadilly Line train derailed. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
=== original message Date: 2003-10-19 04:25:50 PST ===
Mmmm. Jarvis - Welwyn, Hatfield and Kings Cross! www.tube.tfl.gov.uk is showing no service Hampstead - Charing Cross and East Fincley - Kings Cross at present. Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk ======================================= You might want to check your facts there, Robert. Jarvis wern't the company responsible for the line through Hatfield at the time of the broken rail which is said to have caused the derailment of a northbound GNER service. It was Balfour Beatty - admittedly many if not most of the staff are the same though, for the obvious reasons. Simon. |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
Robert Woolley wrote in message . ..
Sorry, you're absolutely correct. I wonder if there's something about that section of the East Coast Main Line that's jinxed? Rob. Well, it's probably about as Jinxed as the Great West mainline out of Paddington, or any other main line - as in, it's just very busy with a lot of trains using it. Eventually something is going to go wrong, as that's what happens with machinery. If only one train went along it a month, it'd be longer between accidents (maybe) and so they'd happen less often. (In short, no, it's not). Simon |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
Robert Woolley wrote in message . ..
On 19 Oct 2003 10:24:45 -0700, (Simon Martin) wrote: === original message Date: 2003-10-19 04:25:50 PST === Mmmm. Jarvis - Welwyn, Hatfield and Kings Cross! www.tube.tfl.gov.uk is showing no service Hampstead - Charing Cross and East Fincley - Kings Cross at present. Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk ======================================= You might want to check your facts there, Robert. Jarvis wern't the company responsible for the line through Hatfield at the time of the broken rail which is said to have caused the derailment of a northbound GNER service. It was Balfour Beatty - admittedly many if not most of the staff are the same though, for the obvious reasons. Simon. Sorry, you're absolutely correct. I wonder if there's something about that section of the East Coast Main Line that's jinxed? Rob. At last, the voice of reason. Thanks Rob. |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
So not only do people in London pay high fares on the tube (and more
from January next year) These high fares give them, without doubt an awful service (a fact the mayor and most tube users would agree with). You don't know if your next tube service will be your last. It makes me wish and hope my next visit to London is as soon as possible so I can once again enjoy the near death experince that is London Underground (this could possibly contain some scarcasm) |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
I now do not use the underground unless it is an imperative, I have a
bus pass. I would object strongly if one pound is given to the underground private companies at the moment, immediately they were privatised they took 40p of every pound to pay the directors and shareholders with scant regard for safety and repair of the infrastructure. For the record they have reduced track walking to once every 48 hours, this not like the over ground where one train passes maybe four times an hour, the underground has 5 in ten minutes, the track is under a lot of strain. Saving 50% of the inspection cost two derailments - unskilled walkers? Give the Mayor full control and responsibility he has shown what can be done with congestion and the buses. BK has already proved what can be done with a metro system. On 20 Oct 2003 09:39:13 -0700, (CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North) wrote: So not only do people in London pay high fares on the tube (and more from January next year) These high fares give them, without doubt an awful service (a fact the mayor and most tube users would agree with). You don't know if your next tube service will be your last. It makes me wish and hope my next visit to London is as soon as possible so I can once again enjoy the near death experince that is London Underground (this could possibly contain some scarcasm) __________________________________________________ _____________________ This e-mail, and any attachment, may contain Confidential Information. Receipt of this information does not imply nor entitle any rights to possession or use. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify the sender immediately. __________________________________________________ _____________________ Chris Box 2534 Tel. [44] 0 (20) 7609-1093 London, Fax. [44] 0 (20) 7609-6910 WC1N 3XX, UK http://www.crag.dircon.co.uk |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
I now do not use the underground unless it is an imperative, I have a
bus pass. I would object strongly if one pound is given to the underground private companies at the moment, immediately they were privatised they took 40p of every pound to pay the directors and shareholders with scant regard for safety and repair of the infrastructure. For the record they have reduced track walking to once every 48 hours, this not like the over ground where one train passes maybe four times an hour, the underground has 5 in ten minutes, the track is under a lot of strain. Saving 50% of the inspection cost two derailments - unskilled walkers? Give the Mayor full control and responsibility he has shown what can be done with congestion and the buses. BK has already proved what can be done with a metro system. On 20 Oct 2003 09:39:13 -0700, (CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North) wrote: So not only do people in London pay high fares on the tube (and more from January next year) These high fares give them, without doubt an awful service (a fact the mayor and most tube users would agree with). You don't know if your next tube service will be your last. It makes me wish and hope my next visit to London is as soon as possible so I can once again enjoy the near death experince that is London Underground (this could possibly contain some scarcasm) __________________________________________________ _____________________ This e-mail, and any attachment, may contain Confidential Information. Receipt of this information does not imply nor entitle any rights to possession or use. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify the sender immediately. __________________________________________________ _____________________ Chris Box 2534 Tel. [44] 0 (20) 7609-1093 London, Fax. [44] 0 (20) 7609-6910 WC1N 3XX, UK http://www.crag.dircon.co.uk |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
"chris" wrote in message
I now do not use the underground unless it is an imperative, I have a bus pass. I would object strongly if one pound is given to the underground private companies at the moment, immediately they were privatised they took 40p of every pound to pay the directors and shareholders with scant regard for safety and repair of the infrastructure. For the record they have reduced track walking to once every 48 hours, this not like the over ground where one train passes maybe four times an hour, the underground has 5 in ten minutes, the track is under a lot of strain. Saving 50% of the inspection cost two derailments - unskilled walkers? Give the Mayor full control and responsibility he has shown what can be done with congestion and the buses. BK has already proved what can be done with a metro system. The fare income from the Tube doesn't go to the PPP contactors, but to LU, so you don't need to worry about it going to PPP suppliers. Also, I doubt that their profit margin will turn out to be that high, but that's a different matter. |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
"CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North" wrote in message om... So not only do people in London pay high fares on the tube (and more from January next year) These high fares give them, without doubt an awful service (a fact the mayor and most tube users would agree with). You don't know if your next tube service will be your last. It makes me wish and hope my next visit to London is as soon as possible so I can once again enjoy the near death experince that is London Underground (this could possibly contain some scarcasm) LOL! But surely made up for, by the happy smiling station staff.... -- Kat in Downtown Toronto (where we don't do sarcasm) |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
I am sorry to inform Nigel that fares do go to the Contractors running
the rail infrastructure, travel card income is split between the organisations of bus underground and NR, this forms part of the scheme paying for the services these render, the fares received at underground stations for UG fares go directly into the underground pot. The internal payment is scheme is a complex web as decoding the original contracts and the basis of complaints and legal challenge of the Mayor. The payments out is greater than the income, if I remember correctly some £50 million. On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:42:16 +0100, "Nigel Pendse" wrote: "chris" wrote in message I now do not use the underground unless it is an imperative, I have a bus pass. I would object strongly if one pound is given to the underground private companies at the moment, immediately they were privatised they took 40p of every pound to pay the directors and shareholders with scant regard for safety and repair of the infrastructure. For the record they have reduced track walking to once every 48 hours, this not like the over ground where one train passes maybe four times an hour, the underground has 5 in ten minutes, the track is under a lot of strain. Saving 50% of the inspection cost two derailments - unskilled walkers? Give the Mayor full control and responsibility he has shown what can be done with congestion and the buses. BK has already proved what can be done with a metro system. The fare income from the Tube doesn't go to the PPP contactors, but to LU, so you don't need to worry about it going to PPP suppliers. Also, I doubt that their profit margin will turn out to be that high, but that's a different matter. __________________________________________________ _____________________ This e-mail, and any attachment, may contain Confidential Information. Receipt of this information does not imply nor entitle any rights to possession or use. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify the sender immediately. __________________________________________________ _____________________ Chris Box 2534 Tel. [44] 0 (20) 7609-1093 London, Fax. [44] 0 (20) 7609-6910 WC1N 3XX, UK http://www.crag.dircon.co.uk |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
From: (CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North)
Goodbye! These high fares give them, without doubt an awful service (a fact the mayor and most tube users would agree with). But still a better public transport service than anywhere else in the country You don't know if your next tube service will be your last. Significantly lower rishk is involved than in driving, crossing the road, walking down a flight of stairs, etc., etc., etc. It makes me wish and hope my next visit to London is as soon as possible so I can once again enjoy the near death experince that is London Underground How about leaving out the "near"? -- James Farrar | London, SE13 | |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
chris wrote in
: I now do not use the underground unless it is an imperative, I have a bus pass. I would object strongly if one pound is given to the underground private companies at the moment, immediately they were privatised they took 40p of every pound to pay the directors and shareholders with scant regard for safety and repair of the infrastructure. For the record they have reduced track walking to once every 48 hours, this not like the over ground where one train passes maybe four times an hour, the underground has 5 in ten minutes, the track is under a lot of strain. Saving 50% of the inspection cost two derailments - unskilled walkers? Give the Mayor full control and responsibility he has shown what can be done with congestion and the buses. BK has already proved what can be done with a metro system. For the record, LUL changed the track inspection schedule in 1996 from 24 hours to 48 hours. The track walkers are the same people, just working for a different company. The mayor already has full control of Transport for London, who manage LU, and LU ensures that safety levels are maintained. |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
In article , CJG Now
Thankfully Living In The North writes You don't know if your next tube service will be your last. It makes me wish and hope my next visit to London is as soon as possible so I can once again enjoy the near death experince that is London Underground (this could possibly contain some scarcasm) And when was the last time somebody was killed on an Underground train (ignoring suicides)? I can't think of any since Moorgate. -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In article , CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North writes You don't know if your next tube service will be your last. It makes me wish and hope my next visit to London is as soon as possible so I can once again enjoy the near death experince that is London Underground (this could possibly contain some scarcasm) And when was the last time somebody was killed on an Underground train (ignoring suicides)? I can't think of any since Moorgate. There was a child who was killed a few years ago. He got his coat caught in a train door whilst still outside the train. I'm sure there must be other cases. However, our ailing tube system is probably a lot safer than often made out to be. So why this government introduces a system shown not to work on the national rail system is a mystery. Can't even get rid of Tory government by electing the Layour party :-( -- Nick H (UK) |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
In message , "Nick H (UK)"
writes Clive D. W. Feather wrote: In article , CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North writes You don't know if your next tube service will be your last. It makes me wish and hope my next visit to London is as soon as possible so I can once again enjoy the near death experince that is London Underground (this could possibly contain some scarcasm) And when was the last time somebody was killed on an Underground train (ignoring suicides)? I can't think of any since Moorgate. There was a child who was killed a few years ago. He got his coat caught in a train door whilst still outside the train. There was also the guy who got stuck on board after the train had terminated and was heading off to the depot. He ran frantically through the inter-car connecting doors, slipped and got dragged down under the car. -- Spyke Address is valid, but messages are treated as junk. The opinions I express do not necessarily reflect those of the educational institution from which I post. |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
"chris" wrote in message
I am sorry to inform Nigel that fares do go to the Contractors running the rail infrastructure, travel card income is split between the organisations of bus underground and NR, this forms part of the scheme paying for the services these render, the fares received at underground stations for UG fares go directly into the underground pot. The internal payment is scheme is a complex web as decoding the original contracts and the basis of complaints and legal challenge of the Mayor. The payments out is greater than the income, if I remember correctly some £50 million. Are you saying that the maintenance companies are paid a percentage of the fare income? I'm sure that isn't the case above ground, where maintenance contracts with NR have nothing to do with fare income, which goes to TOCs -- is it the case with the even-more-complex UG PPP scheme? |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
|
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:56:39 +0100, "Nigel Pendse"
wrote: "chris" wrote in message I am sorry to inform Nigel that fares do go to the Contractors running the rail infrastructure, travel card income is split between the organisations of bus underground and NR, this forms part of the scheme paying for the services these render, the fares received at underground stations for UG fares go directly into the underground pot. The internal payment is scheme is a complex web as decoding the original contracts and the basis of complaints and legal challenge of the Mayor. The payments out is greater than the income, if I remember correctly some £50 million. Are you saying that the maintenance companies are paid a percentage of the fare income? I'm sure that isn't the case above ground, where maintenance contracts with NR have nothing to do with fare income, which goes to TOCs -- is it the case with the even-more-complex UG PPP scheme? passengers pay for LUL singles or returns - money goes to LUL passengers pay for Travelcards / LT Cards - money goes to Travelcard pot but LUL gets a share plus commission for sales. passengers pay for through tickets to NR - LUL gets an apportioned share plus commission for sales. there are reverse flows where other parties sell tickets for LUL. Finally there is a share of concessionary fare payments made by the London Boroughs. The above constitutes fare revenue. Some other income from property and secondary revenue also accrues to LUL. in terms of PPP there is a 4 weekly payment to the Infracos for the full service provided. This is adjusted up or down subject to their performance. The 4 weekly payment in effect covers their costs of operation, costs of investment (projects) and payments to the Banks for the privately sourced finance that they have secured to fund the works. In essence it is a very complex mortgage that pays from maintaining and upgrading the Tube but over a 30 year period. There is fixed rate of return for each 7½ period - the way the Infracos make more profit is to become more efficient. PFI Contracts operate in a similar manner. The PPP payments have no relationship whatsoever to the fare revenue in terms of a percentage take or rake off. I think what the OP was referring to was the well publicised analyses that suggest that the total outward payments by LUL to PPP and PFI contractors and also for LUL's own staff and operating costs in a year might exceed revenue thus necessitating government grant. The last annual report stated LUL made a loss so we are already in the position of requiring a level of grant. The starting proposition for PPP a very long time ago was that it was envisaged that LUL could get to a position of operating without government grant. An awful lot has changed since then. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:31:13 +0100, "Clive D. W. Feather"
wrote: In article , CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North writes You don't know if your next tube service will be your last. It makes me wish and hope my next visit to London is as soon as possible so I can once again enjoy the near death experince that is London Underground (this could possibly contain some scarcasm) And when was the last time somebody was killed on an Underground train (ignoring suicides)? I can't think of any since Moorgate. there have been deaths resulting from slips, trips, falls and dragging incidents near the platform edge (e.g. Holborn, Eastcote (I think), Hounslow East, Chalk Farm). This explains the emphasis on "stand behind the yellow line", stand clear, DMI messages about trains approaching, more mind the gap messages etc. All to do with the risk of accidents on the platform / train interface. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
"Nick H (UK)" wrote:
Clive D. W. Feather wrote: In article , CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North writes You don't know if your next tube service will be your last. It makes me wish and hope my next visit to London is as soon as possible so I can once again enjoy the near death experince that is London Underground (this could possibly contain some scarcasm) And when was the last time somebody was killed on an Underground train (ignoring suicides)? I can't think of any since Moorgate. There was a child who was killed a few years ago. He got his coat caught in a train door whilst still outside the train. Holborn (Picc) in about 1998, IIRC... -- James Farrar | London, SE13 | |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:22:05 +0100, Nick H (UK) wrote:
Can't even get rid of Tory government by electing the Layour party :-( Ahh, When Labour first got in they spent 4 years blaming the Torys. Now you can't blame the Tory's, but you still do. |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:31:13 +0100, "Clive D. W. Feather" wrote: In article , CJG Now Thankfully Living In The North writes You don't know if your next tube service will be your last. It makes me wish and hope my next visit to London is as soon as possible so I can once again enjoy the near death experince that is London Underground (this could possibly contain some scarcasm) And when was the last time somebody was killed on an Underground train (ignoring suicides)? I can't think of any since Moorgate. there have been deaths resulting from slips, trips, falls and dragging incidents near the platform edge (e.g. Holborn, Eastcote (I think), Hounslow East, Chalk Farm). This explains the emphasis on "stand behind the yellow line", stand clear, DMI messages about trains approaching, more mind the gap messages etc. All to do with the risk of accidents on the platform / train interface. I've seen people do incredibly stupid things near the track; including one man who actually jumped down into it when I asked him to stay behind the yellow line! Kat in Downtown Toronto |
Another Tube derailment - Camden Town
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:22:05 +0100, Nick H (UK)
wrote: So why this government introduces a system shown not to work on the national rail system is a mystery. Simple. It is the government equivalent of "off-balance-sheet debt" in a private company - in this case, you still (effectively) borrow the money, but it doesn't appear in the PSBR (Public Sector Borrowing Requirement) figures. Moves capital across onto the revenue account. Nothing to do with service delivery. Everything to do with cooking the books^w^w^w maintaing sound public finances (cough, cough) -- Mike Pellatt Just use R(eply) (from a standards-compliant newsreader) to email me - address will be valid for a few months after this posting. |
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