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De-bendification of 507
How's it going with the baby Citaros?
Anyone have horror stories of gross overcrowding, or Victoria bus station overwhelmed with the frequency of the service? Or is all tickety-boo? Chris (an anxious 521 regular) |
De-bendification of 507
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De-bendification of 507
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 08:32:34PM +0100, Chris Read wrote:
Anyone have horror stories of gross overcrowding, or Victoria bus station overwhelmed with the frequency of the service? Victoria bus station was horribly overwhelmed on Saturday when I wanted to catch a bus there, but the gridlock was more caused by the roadworks on Buckingham Palace Road than anything else, I think. -- David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness EINE KIRCHE! EIN KREDO! EIN PAPST! |
De-bendification of 507
David Cantrell wrote in
k: On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 08:32:34PM +0100, Chris Read wrote: Anyone have horror stories of gross overcrowding, or Victoria bus station overwhelmed with the frequency of the service? Victoria bus station was horribly overwhelmed on Saturday when I wanted to catch a bus there, but the gridlock was more caused by the roadworks on Buckingham Palace Road than anything else, I think. It was dreadful the previous Sunday too - in the end my GF and I ended up getting offf the bus we were on two stops early and walking. Part of the bus station itself was closed too. |
De-bendification of 507
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De-bendification of 507
"David Jackman" pleasereplytogroup wrote: Given that a MEC is basically an updated version of a standee National and the route worked just fine prior to bendification I really wouldn't expect it to be a big deal (and much less eventful than the early days of the bendies!!) But how does the frequency compare with National days? I thought there was a higher PVR now, hence my comment about congestion at terminals, but maybe I'm wrong there. Chris |
De-bendification of 507
On Aug 18, 9:52*pm, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote: "Chris Read" wrote in news:F-qdnaM_ : an anxious 521 regular Given that a MEC is basically an updated version of a standee National and the route worked just fine prior to bendification I really wouldn't expect it to be a big deal (and much less eventful than the early days of the bendies!!) * You're making the presumption that passenger numbers haven't changed since those days of yore. |
De-bendification of 507
On 18 Aug, 23:29, Mizter T wrote:
On Aug 18, 9:52*pm, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote: "Chris Read" wrote in news:F-qdnaM_ : an anxious 521 regular Given that a MEC is basically an updated version of a standee National and the route worked just fine prior to bendification I really wouldn't expect it to be a big deal (and much less eventful than the early days of the bendies!!) * You're making the presumption that passenger numbers haven't changed since those days of yore. I've noticed the 507 has been crush loaded on several occasions, with two packed buses leaving at the same time. This doesn't bode well for other routes... |
De-bendification of 507
On 18 Aug 2009 19:32:26 GMT
James Farrar wrote: David Cantrell wrote in . uk: On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 08:32:34PM +0100, Chris Read wrote: Anyone have horror stories of gross overcrowding, or Victoria bus station overwhelmed with the frequency of the service? Victoria bus station was horribly overwhelmed on Saturday when I wanted to catch a bus there, but the gridlock was more caused by the roadworks on Buckingham Palace Road than anything else, I think. It was dreadful the previous Sunday too - in the end my GF and I ended up getting offf the bus we were on two stops early and walking. Part of the bus station itself was closed too. Unless you're completely cash strapped why subject yourself to long distance poverty travel in the first place? Get a train. B2003 |
De-bendification of 507
David Jackman wrote:
"Chris Read" wrote in news:F-qdnaM_ : an anxious 521 regular Given that a MEC is basically an updated version of a standee National and the route worked just fine prior to bendification I really wouldn't expect it to be a big deal (and much less eventful than the early days of the bendies!!) David Um, as usual in this debate people forget the large increase in passenger numbers since 2002, much as people forget the large increase in passenger size since Routemaster days when moaning about modern buses being so big and wide and everything and forget the large increase in car ownership since the streets were nice and clear* and had fewer traffic lights, one way streets, traffic wardens, bus lanes and clutter. This is presumably the reason behind having so many seats removed from the buses - someone did the maths and worked out that either PVR goes to stupid-o-clock or you run 'em full and standing. Actually, does anyone have the National's seat/standing ratio figures? Tom * which they weren't of course, I'm just having a rant at radical nostalgia freaks as usual. Reasonable, since they appear to want to raid my wallet to pay for their fantasies. |
De-bendification of 507
On Aug 19, 10:00*am, wrote: On 18 Aug 2009 19:32:26 GMT James Farrar wrote: David Cantrell wrote in . uk: On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 08:32:34PM +0100, Chris Read wrote: Anyone have horror stories of gross overcrowding, or Victoria bus station overwhelmed with the frequency of the service? Victoria bus station was horribly overwhelmed on Saturday when I wanted to catch a bus there, but the gridlock was more caused by the roadworks on Buckingham Palace Road than anything else, I think. It was dreadful the previous Sunday too - in the end my GF and I ended up getting offf the bus we were on two stops early and walking. Part of the bus station itself was closed too. Unless you're completely cash strapped why subject yourself to long distance poverty travel in the first place? Get a train. Which is something of a ****wit knee-jerk comment, You have no idea what their journey was. |
De-bendification of 507
On Aug 19, 8:52*am, Railist wrote: On 18 Aug, 23:29, Mizter T wrote: On Aug 18, 9:52*pm, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote: "Chris Read" wrote: an anxious 521 regular Given that a MEC is basically an updated version of a standee National and the route worked just fine prior to bendification I really wouldn't expect it to be a big deal (and much less eventful than the early days of the bendies!!) * You're making the presumption that passenger numbers haven't changed since those days of yore. I've noticed the 507 has been crush loaded on several occasions, with two packed buses leaving at the same time. This doesn't bode well for other routes... Quite - as Tom Barry says downthread, it's daft to compare then and now - pax numbers have grown. Indeed, dare I make the outlandish suggestion that the high-capacity easy-to-board bendies attracted custom which transferred off the crowded Tube - which of course is exactly the kind of thing the Red Arrow routes were intended to do. |
De-bendification of 507
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 03:33:19 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote: Unless you're completely cash strapped why subject yourself to long distance poverty travel in the first place? Get a train. Which is something of a ****wit knee-jerk comment, You have no idea what their journey was. So where in the UK is it possible to visit by coach that can't also be visited by train + local bus? I've travelled by national express twice in my life. Once because my cousin persuaded me and once because I thought "perhaps its improved". It hadn't. Never ever again. Why people do it I have no idea. You spend hours in traffic jams in a cramped seat and it takes 6 hours to go ****ing nowhere as the damn bus does a spider crawl through 101 little towns to drop off come crusties or lavtian fruit pickers. An utterly horrid form of transport. B2003 |
De-bendification of 507
On Aug 19, 11:58*am, wrote: On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 03:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Mizter T wrote: Unless you're completely cash strapped why subject yourself to long distance poverty travel in the first place? Get a train. Which is something of a ****wit knee-jerk comment, You have no idea what their journey was. So where in the UK is it possible to visit by coach that can't also be visited by train + local bus? I've travelled by national express twice in my life. Once because my cousin persuaded me and once because I thought "perhaps its improved". It hadn't. Never ever again. Why people do it I have no idea. You spend hours in traffic jams in a cramped seat and it takes 6 hours to go ****ing nowhere as the damn bus does a spider crawl through 101 little towns to drop off come crusties or lavtian fruit pickers. *An utterly horrid form of transport. You're the only person who's even mentioned coach travel - James certainly didn't. |
De-bendification of 507
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 04:08:13 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote: You're the only person who's even mentioned coach travel - James certainly didn't. Why else would someone be down in victoria bus station then? Unless he meant that patch of tarmac outside the rail station which I don't think you could reasonaly call a bus "station". B2003 |
De-bendification of 507
On Aug 19, 12:41*pm, wrote: On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 04:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Mizter T wrote: You're the only person who's even mentioned coach travel - James certainly didn't. Why else would someone be down in victoria bus station then? Unless he meant that patch of tarmac outside the rail station which I don't think you could reasonaly call a bus "station". You might not "reasonaly" call it a bus station but that's what everyone else calls it (including TfL). The coaches go from Victoria Coach Station. |
De-bendification of 507
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De-bendification of 507
Mizter T wrote in
: On Aug 19, 12:41*pm, wrote: On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 04:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Mizter T wrote: You're the only person who's even mentioned coach travel - James certainly didn't. Why else would someone be down in victoria bus station then? Unless he meant that patch of tarmac outside the rail station which I don't think y ou could reasonaly call a bus "station". You might not "reasonaly" call it a bus station but that's what everyone else calls it (including TfL). The coaches go from Victoria Coach Station. You did very well not to finish that post with "you moron". |
De-bendification of 507
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De-bendification of 507
James Farrar wrote:
Bayswater to Victoria is "long distance"? What's a short distance? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_length |
De-bendification of 507
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:54:20 +0100, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote: wrote: So where in the UK is it possible to visit by coach that can't also be visited by train + local bus? I've travelled by national express twice in my life. Once because my cousin persuaded me and once because I thought "perhaps its improved". It hadn't. Never ever again. Why people do it I have no idea. You spend hours in traffic jams in a cramped seat and it takes 6 hours to go ****ing nowhere as the damn bus does a spider crawl through 101 little towns to drop off come crusties or lavtian fruit pickers. An utterly horrid form of transport. I've used National Express on occasions over the years for a mixture of reasons: * Getting an overnight journey between London & Edinburgh when I need to be there by morning. There aren't many jams at night and the stops are all reasonable. Compared to the cost of the sleeper, or the cost and difficult early morning travel to fly it wasn't bad. * Getting to Lancaster one weekend when the West Coast Main Line was ****ed by engineering works. * Getting back to Canterbury one night when I'd missed the last train from London. When a student in Cantebury I found some of my contemporaries were keen on coaches and often society trips to London were done on National Express rather than rail. I don't remember them being particularly jammed. Whenever I've had to go to Oxford I've used the Oxford Tube to get there and back - it's quite a good journey and not cramped at all. You might be interested in this: http://tinyurl.com/nzwaoo or: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...nd-bus-service |
De-bendification of 507
On 19 Aug 2009 18:06:28 GMT, James Farrar
wrote: Mizter T wrote in : On Aug 19, 12:41*pm, wrote: On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 04:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Mizter T wrote: You're the only person who's even mentioned coach travel - James certainly didn't. Why else would someone be down in victoria bus station then? Unless he meant that patch of tarmac outside the rail station which I don't think y ou could reasonaly call a bus "station". You might not "reasonaly" call it a bus station but that's what everyone else calls it (including TfL). The coaches go from Victoria Coach Station. You did very well not to finish that post with "you moron". Calling boltar a "moron" would be a compliment. He/she/it does not even approach "moron" status. ;-) |
De-bendification of 507
On 19 Aug, 10:55, Tom Barry wrote:
David Jackman wrote: "Chris Read" wrote in news:F-qdnaM_ : an anxious 521 regular Given that a MEC is basically an updated version of a standee National and the route worked just fine prior to bendification I really wouldn't expect it to be a big deal (and much less eventful than the early days of the bendies!!) * David * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Um, as usual in this debate people forget the large increase in passenger numbers since 2002, much as people forget the large increase in passenger size since Routemaster days when moaning about modern buses being so big and wide and everything and forget the large increase in car ownership since the streets were nice and clear* and had fewer traffic lights, one way streets, traffic wardens, bus lanes and clutter. This is presumably the reason behind having so many seats removed from the buses - someone did the maths and worked out that either PVR goes to stupid-o-clock or you run 'em full and standing. *Actually, does anyone have the National's seat/standing ratio figures? Tom * which they weren't of course, I'm just having a rant at radical nostalgia freaks as usual. *Reasonable, since they appear to want to raid my wallet to pay for their fantasies. Also, don't forget that the routes are different anyway. Overlapping routes have been added in some places and removed in others. The general shift to shorter routes may add to overcrowding in some ways and reduce it in others. |
De-bendification of 507
Railist wrote in
: On 18 Aug, 23:29, Mizter T wrote: On Aug 18, 9:52*pm, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote: "Chris Read" wrote in news:F-qdnaM_ : an anxious 521 regular Given that a MEC is basically an updated version of a standee National and the route worked just fine prior to bendification I really wouldn't exp ect it to be a big deal (and much less eventful than the early days of the bendies!!) * You're making the presumption that passenger numbers haven't changed since those days of yore. I've noticed the 507 has been crush loaded on several occasions, with two packed buses leaving at the same time. This doesn't bode well for other routes... Waterloo Road in the morning peak sees queues build up at the bus stops and the majority of buses leave with crush loads - with the 521 you wouldn't expect to get on the first bus to depart but join one of three queues (one for each door). All very British. In the evening you can usually get a bus from the Aldwych fairly quickly but if you are going beyond Waterloo and want a specifc route it can be a very fustrating experience. |
De-bendification of 507
In article . 145,
pleasereplytogroup (David Jackman) wrote: Railist wrote in : On 18 Aug, 23:29, Mizter T wrote: On Aug 18, 9:52*pm, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote: "Chris Read" wrote in : an anxious 521 regular Given that a MEC is basically an updated version of a standee National and the route worked just fine prior to bendification I really wouldn't expect it to be a big deal (and much less eventful than the early days of the bendies!!) * You're making the presumption that passenger numbers haven't changed since those days of yore. I've noticed the 507 has been crush loaded on several occasions, with two packed buses leaving at the same time. This doesn't bode well for other routes... Waterloo Road in the morning peak sees queues build up at the bus stops and the majority of buses leave with crush loads - with the 521 you wouldn't expect to get on the first bus to depart but join one of three queues (one for each door). All very British. In the evening you can usually get a bus from the Aldwych fairly quickly but if you are going beyond Waterloo and want a specifc route it can be a very fustrating experience. Time to reopen the Aldwych branch and extend it to Waterloo? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
De-bendification of 507
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:55:09 +0100, Tom Barry wrote: Actually, does anyone have the National's seat/standing ratio figures? 28 seats and 46 standees in Red Arrow mode 36 seats and 27 standees in normal configuration This is for the Leyland National 2 before they were "East Lancs Greenway" converted. Source from a book dated 1993. Thanks Paul - my Red Arrow crib sheet now reads: Bus Seats Stands Total %sts %stnds stnds/sts ratio MBS 25 48 73 34% 66% 1.92 N/nal2 28 46 74 38% 62% 1.64 CitaroG 49 100 149 33% 67% 2.04 MEC 21 76 97 22% 78% 3.62 From which it looks like the best seat ratio was indeed the National 2 and by far the worst is Boris's Cattle Truck. It also shows quite how many more people you have to carry on 21st century Red Arrow routes, which was rather my point. There were apparently only 41 Greenways in total for more routes back in the day, while the two remaining routes will need 49 much bigger capacity buses between them. Tom |
De-bendification of 507
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:55:37 +0100
Bruce wrote: He/she/it does not even approach "moron" status. ;-) Well you should know, after all , you're the benchmark. B2003 |
De-bendification of 507
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:19:20 +0100
Bruce wrote: You might be interested in this: http://tinyurl.com/nzwaoo or: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...greyhound-bus- ervice So a few 2nd hand nat-ex buses will be given a respray and a "greyhound" transfer slapped on the side. Yawn. Its not like suddenly the view will change to cactuses and red sandstone buttes while sitting in a traffic jam on the Westway. B2003 |
De-bendification of 507
In article , says...
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:19:20 +0100 Bruce wrote: So a few 2nd hand nat-ex buses will be given a respray and a "greyhound" transfer slapped on the side. Yawn. Its not like suddenly the view will change to cactuses and red sandstone buttes while sitting in a traffic jam on the Westway. B2003 I don't think so, have you looked at one? http://www.firstgroup.com/corpfirst/...pfirst_news/13 _Side_view_Greyhound_bus.tif |
De-bendification of 507
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:44:52 +0100
Jim Brittin [wake up to reply] wrote: I don't think so, have you looked at one? http://www.firstgroup.com/corpfirst/...pfirst_news/13 _Side_view_Greyhound_bus.tif Ok , they're buying new buses. But it doesn't change the fact that most of the romance or whatever you want to call it associated with Greyhound is down to the countryside of the USA they drive through, not the buses themselves. Here its just another bus operator. But perhaps I'm just being cynical. B2003 |
De-bendification of 507
Jim Brittin wrote:
In article , says... On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:44:52 +0100 Jim Brittin [wake up to reply] wrote: I don't think so, have you looked at one? http://www.firstgroup.com/corpfirst/...pfirst_news/13 _Side_view_Greyhound_bus.tif Ok , they're buying new buses. But it doesn't change the fact that most of the romance or whatever you want to call it associated with Greyhound is down to the countryside of the USA they drive through, not the buses themselves. Here its just another bus operator. But perhaps I'm just being cynical. No, true. Ours will never be iconic. Calling them Greyhound will encourage American tourists to use them, and won't deter anyone else. It's a smart move IMO. |
De-bendification of 507
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De-bendification of 507
Basil Jet wrote:
Jim Brittin wrote: No, true. Ours will never be iconic. Calling them Greyhound will encourage American tourists to use them, and won't deter anyone else. It's a smart move IMO. rant Why does everything have to be 'iconic'? What's wrong with 'good value and efficient'?/rant Tom (in Daily Mail mode today) |
De-bendification of 507
Tom Barry wrote:
Basil Jet wrote: Jim Brittin wrote: No, true. Ours will never be iconic. Calling them Greyhound will encourage American tourists to use them, and won't deter anyone else. It's a smart move IMO. rant Why does everything have to be 'iconic'? What's wrong with 'good value and efficient'?/rant Tom (in Daily Mail mode today) An iconic Tom Barry post if ever I saw one. |
De-bendification of 507
Basil Jet wrote:
Tom Barry wrote: Basil Jet wrote: Jim Brittin wrote: No, true. Ours will never be iconic. Calling them Greyhound will encourage American tourists to use them, and won't deter anyone else. It's a smart move IMO. rant Why does everything have to be 'iconic'? What's wrong with 'good value and efficient'?/rant Tom (in Daily Mail mode today) An iconic Tom Barry post if ever I saw one. Grrr!!! There was me thinking I was doing a passable Boltar impression. Tom |
De-bendification of 507
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:24:47 +0100
Tom Barry wrote: An iconic Tom Barry post if ever I saw one. Grrr!!! There was me thinking I was doing a passable Boltar impression. No chance mate. It would takes years of careful nurturing of bile, vitriol and sarcasm to even come close. B2003 |
De-bendification of 507
Paul Corfield wrote:
And that was in the era of cheap BR train tickets Now, of course, it's the era of one of your competitors (Stagecoach, in the case of London-Pompey/Soton) running a train service where the fares keep going up* and there being rather lower barriers to entry for a competing coach service than a competing train service. Plus Network Rail are unable to bustitute your business at the weekends if you've already done it. Tom * Yes, I know, JohnB, but that's what people think. |
De-bendification of 507
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:48:25 +0000 (UTC),
wrote: On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:19:20 +0100 Bruce wrote: You might be interested in this: http://tinyurl.com/nzwaoo or: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...greyhound-bus- So a few 2nd hand nat-ex buses will be given a respray and a "greyhound" transfer slapped on the side. Yawn. You really *are* a moron, aren't you. (no answer sought or needed) If you had only read the article linked to, you would have known that the service will be operated with a fleet of brand new Scania Irizar coaches equipped with only 41 spacious leather seats and climate control. This Irizar PB coach is a multiple award winning design and will be a very comfortable ride indeed. |
De-bendification of 507
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:59:24 +0000 (UTC),
wrote: On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:24:47 +0100 Tom Barry wrote: An iconic Tom Barry post if ever I saw one. Grrr!!! There was me thinking I was doing a passable Boltar impression. No chance mate. It would takes years of careful nurturing of bile, vitriol and sarcasm to even come close. Not to mention the profoundest ignorance. ;-) |
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