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Where have all the RMs gone?
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Where have all the RMs gone?
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Where have all the RMs gone?
Why is that unlawful? Unfair, perhaps, but unlawful? What law was it
breaking? The law that requires subsidiary authorities to adhere to the statutory provisions creating the powers they are exercising. The High Court has always had the power to review the procedures adopted by inferior tribunals and local authorities when a citizen wishes to challenge their adherence to proper procedures, on grounds of irrationality, illegality or breach of natural justice. The statute was the Transport (London) Act 1969, and basically the majority of the House of Lords decided that L.T. had to be run on a break-even basis, and that the G.L.C. in seeking to reimburse L.T. for the inevitable operating loss that would result from "Fares Fair" (which involved a 25% fares reduction across the board) was abusing its power. Under Section 7(6), L.T. was required to balance its books and by Section 11, the G.L.C. was empowered to give general directions to L.T.but the Courts held that it was abuse of this power to institute "Fares Fair" which was a socio-political act (to encourage people to use public transport) because that was not the purpose of the 1969 Act or the proper function of the G.L.C. Marc. |
Where have all the RMs gone?
In article , Peter
Beale writes In article , (Ian Jelf) wrote: But I'll still enjoy seeing them in museums! As will I. But I hope (and suspect) that there will always be some form of "heritage" operation with them in Central London. How many years ago is it since they had the Tilling ST running a heritage route (100, I think)? I saw it running at Easter 1980 on my first ever trip to London (gulp!). -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Where have all the RMs gone?
In article , Mait001
writes Purely out of interest, in law, how is a "massive" subsidy different from a smaller one? -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Ian, it is a matter of proportionality. If the ratepayers of Bromley ae paying disproportionately for a service from which they do not benefit, no doubt they would regard it (as did the Courts) a massive and illegal subsidy. No, I could perhaps understand them regarding it as an *unfair* subsidy [1] but not as an *illegal* one. If it were a small amount, but even if it could have been proved that the Bromley ratepayers received no direct benefit (for example, suppose there were NO L.T. services whatsoever in that Borough), I think the G.L.C. might still have won the case since it may have been provable that Bromleians when travelling beyond their borough boundaries derive some benefit. However, the scheme that Ken introduced required hugely disproportionate contributions from some boroughs (maybe the richer ones, but also those South of the Thames without Underground services) and this led to the challenge. I have a lot of difficulty with this "proportion" argument, though. Something's either legal or illegal and I still can't see how a "small" subsidy was enshrined in law as okay, while a "large" one was not. That said, thanks for explaining the detail of the relevant act in your other posting on this thread. I've never seen that done on this matter in detail before and much appreciated it. I still don't think it's right but then who am I as a mere mortal to argue with Lord Denning et al? ;-) [1] As you correctly point out in the following paragraph, just because there were no Underground Services in Bromley doesn't mean that they had no *LT* services. That said, Fares Fair should perhaps really have applied equally to railway services, too. After all, the mode of transport itself is irrelevant, only the service. -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Where have all the RMs gone?
I have a lot of difficulty with this "proportion" argument, though.
Something's either legal or illegal and I still can't see how a "small" subsidy was enshrined in law as okay, while a "large" one was not. The real point, Ian, was that this was an overtly political act (a "small subsidy would have gone largely unnoticed) and that's why Conservative Bromley challenged it. That said, thanks for explaining the detail of the relevant act in your other posting on this thread. I've never seen that done on this matter in detail before and much appreciated it. I still don't think it's right but then who am I as a mere mortal to argue with Lord Denning et al? ;-) Thanks for your compliment. I treasure a moment when, around 1986, Ken was invited to speak after dinner at my Inn, when amongst those in the audience were several of the Judges who had judged against him. Ken unwisely started on some class war nonsense about upper class judges being against him and the working classes, and one Judge got up and rebuked him thus: " I went to my local council primary school, won a scholarship to my local garmmar school, I served my country in the War, rising to the grand rank of sergeant major, read for the Bar whilst a P.O.W., then did pupillage where I was earning a Guinea a week doing traffic accident cases, then worked my way up and used the bus and tube every day of my working life and still do when sitting in London". Ken's embarrassment was a picture! Marc. |
Where have all the RMs gone?
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:44:56 +0000, K wrote:
They're *far* more comfotable than later buses, and give a much smother ride. (unless they just have better drivers) Lower acceleration, probably. Don't know about smoother - except for the few that've been refurbished with a modern drivetrain, most shudder like anything and jerk badly on changing gear. Most other places with mostly off-bus ticketing allow for buying a ticket on board as well. True - while others board at the rear, people can pay at the front - in Hamburg, a wide range of tickets is available and doesn't cause a lot of delay. Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
Where have all the RMs gone?
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:56:34 GMT, Rupert Goodwins
wrote: I wonder if the last three in service will process in state to Willesden Bus Garage past roads thronged with wellwishers and camera crews. It worked for Concorde... R Would you get J.Clarkson and J .Collins to travel on a Routemaster even if it had just crossed the Atlantic at mach2? G.Harman |
Where have all the RMs gone?
In article , g.harman
writes On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:56:34 GMT, Rupert Goodwins wrote: I wonder if the last three in service will process in state to Willesden Bus Garage past roads thronged with wellwishers and camera crews. It worked for Concorde... R Would you get J.Clarkson and J .Collins to travel on a Routemaster even if it had just crossed the Atlantic at mach2? No. That's another reason why I like the RM....... -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
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