In article ,
(Charles Ellson) wrote:

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

MIG wrote:
On 17 Sep, 10:15, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Sim" wrote

Some differences between Overground and Underground:
1. Third rail electrification rather than fourth, so not
compatible for through running.

The NLL is 25 kV OHLE between Acton and Camden Road, and between
Dalston Kingsland and Stratford, and will be all the way between
Acton and Stratford once the NLL refurbishment is complete. The
WLL switches from 25 kV OHLE to 3rd rail between North Pole
Junction and Shepherds Bush. Goblin remains diesel worked (and
if it is electrified it will be 25 kV OHLE.

One small question - does newer dual voltage stock (since the 313s) have
the capability to switch between third rail and overhead on the fly
between North Pole and Shepherd's Bush? The 313s were designed only to
switch in stations (Drayton Park actually) but no-one envisaged a
changeover point between stations in the 1970s.

BTW, the Broad Street to Dalston line, most of which is being
incorporated into the ELL, was originally 4th rail, but IIRC was
converted to 3rd rail before closure.

That's my recollection too.

And all electrified parts of the current London Overground were four
rail at some point, weren't they? Ah, maybe not Dalston to
Stratford.

I believe the stretch from Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone is still
four rail, otherwise Bakerloo passengers would have to get out and
push!

It is 3rd rail with the 4th rail bonded to the running rail which
carries the traction return current. The LU 4-rail system does not
have a deliberate electrical connection between the 3rd/4th rails and
the running rails and is only loosely connected to earth/0v to enable
control equipment to detect earthing of either electric rail. A
further consequence of this arrangement is that trains running over
such sections require higher-rated insulation than is necessarily on
LU (660v to earth rather than 420v to earth) although IMU all current
LU stock has been so equipped since the 1960s

You are overlooking East Putney or Putney Bridge to Wimbledon which has
had earth bonded current rails since the first world war. Also Gunnersbury
to Richmond and probably East of Barking or thereabouts until 50 years ago.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:36:31 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

I shall now hide under a table before the residents of utl re-ignite

I did wonder if it was because they weren't compliant with some
regulation or other - particularly because the orange background makes
them quite difficult to read. A very odd choice - I'm surprised they
didn't just go for white with an orange stripe at the bottom or
something.

White with an orange strip is the permanent style for overhead signage, as
seen at Stratford, Clapham Junction so far IIRC. There are supposed to be
'3D' LT style roundels eventually, as platform running in signs, but only
where there is sufficient room.

Paul S

On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:21:08 +0100, "Peter Masson"
wrote:

It's now the logo of Transport for London, and appears, for example, on the
licence plate on the back of black cabs.

And of the Indian railways!

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

wrote in message
...
Paul Scott wrote:
wrote in message
...
In article

Don't Merseyrail also maintain the tack,

There have been a number of proposals for Merseyrail to maintain their
own track, because it can be segregated from the wider network (unlike
the 'Overground') but so far nothing has changed, as NR fundamentally
disagree.

Paul
Doesn't Nederlandse Spoorwegen run Merseyrail?

Only the train service. The infrastructure is definitely Network Rail as I
said...

Paul S

On Sep 18, 10:47 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
No it isn't. All London Overground services are also part of National
Rail so every station that those trains serve will have the double arrow
sign outside. Interestingly that will mean that Whitechapel - in modern
times just LUL - will gain NR signage (or at least should do).

So, I read this and thought "I'm sure I remember reading in a signs
standard that Dalston Junction-Surrey Quays will be Overground roundel
only". This one says you are right:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/corporate/...ardIssue02.pdf

However, if you change Issue02 to Issue01, you get the first version,
which did have the idea that part of the Overground network wouldn't
be part of National Rail, and so therefore the arrowheads wouldn't be
displayed... Curious.

--
Abi

On 18 Sep, 19:12, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 02:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Sim

wrote:
In the old days, Queen's Park was the last LT-managed station on the
route to Watford, which was firmly BR (and before that LMS) thereafter
all the way to Watford. The Bakerloo was the "guest".

When did LT ever manage Queens Park Station? *All the time I have been
with LT it was either a BR operated station and then post franchising it
passed to Silverlink. Only at the time when Silverlink ceased and LOROL
took over did it transfer to LU operation and even then things like
ticketing remain on NR equipment and NR ticketing rules (the same
applies all the way up to Harrow, barring Willesden Junction which is
LOROL operated).

Happy to be corrected if LT did run it back from 1933 or whenever and it
then later passed to BR. I'd be surprised that LT would have ceded
ownership (and the revenue) if it had had any choice.

--
Paul C

Absolutely right: thanks Paul. Too many late nights, I think.
Please delete Queen's Park in the original post and substitute Kilburn
Park.

Who owns the depot/reversing building at QP, though? I think it's the
only one on LU where service trains actually run through the middle of
it.

On Sep 19, 12:11*pm, Sim wrote:
On 18 Sep, 19:12, Paul Corfield wrote:





On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 02:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Sim

wrote:
In the old days, Queen's Park was the last LT-managed station on the
route to Watford, which was firmly BR (and before that LMS) thereafter
all the way to Watford. The Bakerloo was the "guest".

When did LT ever manage Queens Park Station? *All the time I have been
with LT it was either a BR operated station and then post franchising it
passed to Silverlink. Only at the time when Silverlink ceased and LOROL
took over did it transfer to LU operation and even then things like
ticketing remain on NR equipment and NR ticketing rules (the same
applies all the way up to Harrow, barring Willesden Junction which is
LOROL operated).

Happy to be corrected if LT did run it back from 1933 or whenever and it
then later passed to BR. I'd be surprised that LT would have ceded
ownership (and the revenue) if it had had any choice.

--
Paul C

Absolutely right: thanks Paul. Too many late nights, I think.
Please delete Queen's Park in the original post and substitute Kilburn
Park.

Who owns the depot/reversing building at QP, though? I think it's the
only one on LU where service trains actually run through the middle of
it.

The boundary between NR and LU is just outside the north end of the
shed at 3 miles 67 chains, the junction between the DC line and the
Bakerloo tracks is at 3 miles 71 chains.

1506 wrote:

This is something I have wondered for some time. The Overground name
is contrived. The East London Line is a former Underground line
anyway.


If you want a stupid contrived use of the word, FirstBus titled the
Bristol bus map "Overground"... a BUS map!!!

Matt

In message
Cruithne3753 wrote:

1506 wrote:

This is something I have wondered for some time. The Overground name
is contrived. The East London Line is a former Underground line
anyway.


If you want a stupid contrived use of the word, FirstBus titled the
Bristol bus map "Overground"... a BUS map!!!


They did the same in Southampton for a while.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

DW downunder reply@newsgroup wrote

That's something that has developed since 1987, when I returned to
Oz.
Certainly, none of US called anything the overground. The whole
concept of
Network South East was to give the whole home counties and beyond a
product
concept built on the Underground model of clarity (if not frequency).

If calling everything local on rails that's not LU "overground"
developed in
a generation, by 2027, all will be clear again!

The OED has a quote from 1931 about a bus line (Hadley Wood/ Barnet to
Victoria) which was branded as Overground !

--
Mike D