In article , damduck-
says...
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:53:29 +0100, "Peter Masson"
wrote:



"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...
1506 wrote:


is contrived. The East London Line is a former Underground line
anyway.

But before it became part of the 'Underground' it was part of the main
line network, so it is just back where it was originally...

It was an oddity. It escaped the Grouping because it was part-owned by the
Metropolitan, who ran all the passenger trains, and it escaped the formation
of the London Passenger Transport Board because it was part-owned by the
Southern Railway. Following nationalisation it was administered by the
London Transport Executive, but still figured in the Southern Region
timetable, and it was possible to obtain through tickets from SR stations to
ELL stations,

Was there not a reversal of that situation for Stations on the
Hammersmith and City ? I'm sure I remember my grandfather muttering
something about buying a ticket at Hammersmith for a destination on
the Western region as it would save having to go the booking office at
Paddington.

G.Harman


Yes, the H&C was originally a Metropolitan & Great Western Joint line
and thus through bookings were possible to stations as far away as
Penzance. These were certainly possible into LT Board times.

wrote in message



One small question - does newer dual voltage stock (since the 313s)
have the capability to switch between third rail and overhead on the
fly between North Pole and Shepherd's Bush? The 313s were designed
only to switch in stations (Drayton Park actually) but no-one
envisaged a changeover point between stations in the 1970s.

No, Desiros and ElectroStars also come to a complete stop for what seems
like an age for the voltage change. If anything, it seems like they take
longer than the 313s, presumably because of the complex electronics and
computers that may need rebooting.

On Sep 20, 2:10*pm, "Recliner" wrote:
wrote in message





One small question - does newer dual voltage stock (since the 313s)
have the capability to switch between third rail and overhead on the
fly between North Pole and Shepherd's Bush? The 313s were designed
only to switch in stations (Drayton Park actually) but no-one
envisaged a changeover point between stations in the 1970s.

No, Desiros and ElectroStars also come to a complete stop for what seems
like an age for the voltage change. If anything, it seems like they take
longer than the 313s, presumably because of the complex electronics and
computers that may need rebooting.

The Electrostars can change over on the move, but normally don't. I've
never been on a unit that's done it myself, but know of people who
have. On the West London Line at North Pole Junction, there's little
difference in the time spent stationary between a 313 and a 377,
although the PIS system on a 377 is sometimes still rebooting after
Shepherd's Bush when heading south.

Class 313s can actually change over on the move, very occasionally a
313 will leave Euston on AC and won't stop until arriving at South
Hampstead on DC, I've managed this maneuver at least once during the
rebuild of the Euston station throat.

On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 06:23:35 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

The Electrostars can change over on the move, but normally don't. I've
never been on a unit that's done it myself, but know of people who
have. On the West London Line at North Pole Junction, there's little
difference in the time spent stationary between a 313 and a 377,
although the PIS system on a 377 is sometimes still rebooting after
Shepherd's Bush when heading south.

It always struck me as very poor design that the PIS reboots when
changing voltage. Wouldn't it make more sense for it to operate from
a battery? Or were the units not designed for changing "on the fly"?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In article
,
(Andy) wrote:

On Sep 20, 2:10*pm, "Recliner" wrote:
wrote in message


One small question - does newer dual voltage stock (since the 313s)
have the capability to switch between third rail and overhead on the
fly between North Pole and Shepherd's Bush? The 313s were designed
only to switch in stations (Drayton Park actually) but no-one
envisaged a changeover point between stations in the 1970s.

The Electrostars can change over on the move, but normally don't. I've
never been on a unit that's done it myself, but know of people who
have. On the West London Line at North Pole Junction, there's little
difference in the time spent stationary between a 313 and a 377,
although the PIS system on a 377 is sometimes still rebooting after
Shepherd's Bush when heading south.

Class 313s can actually change over on the move, very occasionally a
313 will leave Euston on AC and won't stop until arriving at South
Hampstead on DC, I've managed this maneuver at least once during the
rebuild of the Euston station throat.

Hmm. Was that one of the the mods for NLL/Silverlink Metro use? I know
they changed the controls so they can run on DC in parallel as well as in
series.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

DW downunder reply@newsgroup wrote on 19 September 2009 05:51:41 ...
"Recliner" wrote in message

But many Overground trains will use National Rail stations, complete with
double-arrows. In any case, though you may think it's illogical, imperfect
Londoners do tend to refer to all non-Underground/DLR services as
'overground trains'.

That's something that has developed since 1987, when I returned to Oz.
Certainly, none of US called anything the overground. The whole concept of
Network South East was to give the whole home counties and beyond a product
concept built on the Underground model of clarity (if not frequency).

I've come to the conclusion that this must be a generation thing. I've
never used 'overground' to refer to anything but LO. In my own
experience, people have tended to stick with out-of-date or inaccurate
terms like 'British Rail' or 'main-line' when referring to National Rail
services as a whole.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:58:29 -0500,
wrote:

Hmm. Was that one of the the mods for NLL/Silverlink Metro use? I know
they changed the controls so they can run on DC in parallel as well as in
series.

Interesting - that may make them very useful indeed for any future
extensions of Merseyrail.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 20 Sep, 18:10, "Richard J." wrote:
DW downunder reply@newsgroup wrote on 19 September 2009 05:51:41 ...

"Recliner" wrote in message
But many Overground trains will use National Rail stations, complete with
double-arrows. In any case, though you may think it's illogical, imperfect
Londoners do tend to refer to all non-Underground/DLR services as
'overground trains'.
That's something that has developed since 1987, when I returned to Oz.
Certainly, none of US called anything the overground. The whole concept of
Network South East was to give the whole home counties and beyond a product
concept built on the Underground model of clarity (if not frequency).

I've come to the conclusion that this must be a generation thing. *I've
never used 'overground' to refer to anything but LO. *In my own
experience, people have tended to stick with out-of-date or inaccurate
terms like 'British Rail' or 'main-line' when referring to National Rail
services as a whole.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

It may also be geographical. Anywhere outside of northish London,
there would be no need to make the contrast.

I don't think I used the term myself, but I know that others did,
particularly where there was a choice, eg Stratford to Liverpool
Street, or Walthamstow Central into central London.

Richard J. wrote:

In my own experience, people have tended to stick with out-of-date or
inaccurate terms like 'British Rail'

Perhaps they are saying 'British rail', in which case it isn't
inaccurate.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p14486542.html
(FY SW1001 44 (no TOPS class) at Merehead, 26 Jun 1994)

In article , aooy65
@dsl.pipex.com says...
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 02:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Sim
wrote:

In the old days, Queen's Park was the last LT-managed station on the
route to Watford, which was firmly BR (and before that LMS) thereafter
all the way to Watford. The Bakerloo was the "guest".

When did LT ever manage Queens Park Station? All the time I have been
with LT it was either a BR operated station and then post franchising it
passed to Silverlink. Only at the time when Silverlink ceased and LOROL
took over did it transfer to LU operation and even then things like
ticketing remain on NR equipment and NR ticketing rules (the same
applies all the way up to Harrow, barring Willesden Junction which is
LOROL operated).

Happy to be corrected if LT did run it back from 1933 or whenever and it
then later passed to BR. I'd be surprised that LT would have ceded
ownership (and the revenue) if it had had any choice.



Queens Park certainly issued LTE tickets whereas the stations further on
had BR tickets.