Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message .com, at
14:49:38 on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, MC remarked:
I have used BC many times on a few airlines but I have found the "new"
Club
Class on BA to be the best I have experienced.

There are many things right about it, but also a few rough edges. It's
really difficult to serve food to people with window seats, for example,
because the people seated on the aisle get in the way.

BC on many airlines does, indeed, far surpass "old" FC cabins but the
new FC cabins can offer excellent privacy. Has anyone had the fortune
to travel FC on a Singapore Airlines or Emirates A380 :o)

Not yet, but I may travel in Business on an Emirates 380 in the spring.
FC is a stupid price!

How is it stupid?

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:20:44 on Mon, 12
Oct 2009, Adrian remarked:

I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of
their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out
of you in compulsory "extras"

If you add together the number of people swearing this, plus the number
of people who *do* actually fly, I wonder if it exceeds 100% of the
flying population? [Ryanair are Europe's biggest carrier, and will fly
67 million people this year].

That's not 67m _individuals_, is it...?

No, but what's the average number of flights people make with them per
year?

I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late evening
flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't available for
boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all the passengers being
left at the gate with no staff, no information, no access to
refreshments - for SIX HOURS. We finally got to Luton at about 3am,
IIRC.

That happens with full-fare airlines too.

The mechanical problems do, yes. They're unavoidable.
The _communication_ problems? No. Not IME.

Sadly, the communications problems often exist, whatever the airline.

They do, and that's a fact. But they are not as nearly as bad/pronounced
on premium airlines, compared with the budget airlines.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

Recliner wrote:
"MC" wrote in message
ster.com
"Bruce" wrote in message
...
On 12 Oct 2009 08:43:40 GMT, Adrian wrote:

"Ian F." gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the
chattering campaign about them?
I've had a couple of bad experiences - herded around like cattle,
talked at by snotty-nosed ground staff like I was a piece of ****,
shown no respect whatsoever...

I'm a reasonably frequent flyer and I'm too old and
dyed-in-the-wool to worry about saving a few pennies to be treated
like that. I'd far rather spend the extra and be shown some degree
of care. And this is not just me - I know dozens of friends and
colleagues that feel the same way. I have always found easyJet to
be far superior in every way to
Ryanair, although, understandably, not on a level with the major
airlines. I would travel with them like a shot, but I will never,
ever, ever travel Ryanair.
I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because
of their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every
penny out of you in compulsory "extras" - but I've also sworn off
SleazyJet after direct personal experience about ten years ago.

I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late
evening flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't
available for boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all
the passengers being left at the gate with no staff, no
information, no access to refreshments - for SIX HOURS. We finally
got to Luton at about 3am, IIRC.

I used to commute weekly from Heathrow to Schiphol in the late 1980s.
I had a similar experience with BA, involving a five hour wait at
Schiphol on a Friday evening, with the aircraft still not having left
Heathrow on the preceding flight. No attempt was made to transfer us
to KLM, which would have saved several hours, and only after many
complaints were refreshments provided.

I decided to reject BA in favour of BMI (called British Midland in
those days). It happened twice more with BMI, once with a four
hour delay and once with a seven hour delay, meaning I arrived home
in West London about 2:00 AM. But the overall service of NMI was so
much better than BA that I stayed with them. Plus, it was only two
flights in around 50, so it wasn't too bad.

My point is that flag carriers such as BA and "full price" airlines
such as BMI have similar problems to the low cost, as do rail
operators. What they all share is that they are all spectacularly
bad at dealing with them, in most cases. However. it was one area
where GNER absolutely shone.
Er... this was 20+ years ago. How can you compare your experiences
with modern flying trends. The airline industry and regulations have
moved on enormously since then. Budget airlines were still only a
twinkle in the eyes of a lot of the current budget airline bosses.

I have flown almost exclusively with BA in that last 8 or 9 years and
have never had a problem with them apart from one occasion when we
had to wait for 2hrs, onboard, before we could depart. However, the
crew were very good with refreshments etc... during that time. Had I
been sat on a Ryanair plane I somehow doubt the "FREE" refreshments
would have bee so forthcoming. The only times I have ever had reason
to complain was when I have flown with budget airlines. One time was
BMI Baby the other Thomas Cook Airlines.

I've had a couple of occasions when BA cancelled flights because of bad
weather at Heathrow. In neither case did it deal with them well. I'd
agree with Tony that British Midland was better than BA in the 1980s,
but it lost its way later, when it couldn't decide what kind of airline
it wanted to be.


Still a pretty good airline, in my experience. At least if you are going
some place like Amsterdam.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

rail wrote:
In message
"DW downunder" noname wrote:

"MC" wrote in message
ster.com...
SNIP
Er... this was 20+ years ago. How can you compare your experiences with
modern flying trends. The airline industry and regulations have moved on
enormously since then. Budget airlines were still only a twinkle in the
eyes of a lot of the current budget airline bosses.
Freddie Laker ring a bell? "Skytrain" - now when was that?

First flight 26 Sep 1977 though the first application for a licence for the
service was 15 Jun 1971.

Lasted until 5 Feb 1982.

People's Express was offering flights from Brussels to Newark in the 80s
for about $100, I recall reading.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

MIG wrote:
On 12 Oct, 09:50, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:32:02 on Mon, 12
Oct 2009, Ian F. remarked:

I know millions of people are happy being treated like **** in order to
save a couple of quid - that is their prerogative and I'm glad that
Ryanair is there to provide them with what they require.
And to some extent trains and buses serve a similar purpose. It's not
just Maggie who thinks public transport is for losers :(
--
Roland Perry

The thing is to resist every move by the railways to follow the
Ryanair model. Don't be fooled by the "get what you pay for"
arguments. Low price for poor service seems fine to me, but the
trickery is not, and nor is the gambling.

Currently the railway operators don't just wash their hands of their
customers and leave them stranded, no matter how little they've
paid.

"Sorry, train cancelled. Here's your AP fare back. Now find
somewhere to stay the night and get an Anytime single tomorrow. If
you like you can use it now on a train at exactly the same time as the
one that was cancelled ..."
There was a service a few years ago, that was running trains out of
Waterloo to Southampton for about £1. The problem, however, was that
passengers who paid that fare were confined to one car on the train. I'm
under the impression that it was not the most pleasant journey.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
02:04:03 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, MIG remarked:
On 12 Oct, 09:50, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:32:02 on Mon, 12
Oct 2009, Ian F. remarked:

I know millions of people are happy being treated like **** in order to
save a couple of quid - that is their prerogative and I'm glad that
Ryanair is there to provide them with what they require.

And to some extent trains and buses serve a similar purpose. It's not
just Maggie who thinks public transport is for losers :(

The thing is to resist every move by the railways to follow the
Ryanair model. Don't be fooled by the "get what you pay for"
arguments. Low price for poor service seems fine to me, but the
trickery is not, and nor is the gambling.

The so-called "simplified" fare system, plus opaque routing
restrictions, means that train fares are at least as bad.

Currently the railway operators don't just wash their hands of their
customers and leave them stranded, no matter how little they've
paid.

Actually, they do. You just tune out the reports.

"Sorry, train cancelled. Here's your AP fare back. Now find
somewhere to stay the night and get an Anytime single tomorrow. If
you like you can use it now on a train at exactly the same time as the
one that was cancelled ..."

Ah, that's a common one of the "chattering criticisms". But does it
actually happen any more? The closest is probably "You need to catch the
next available flight, which is tomorrow" (or possibly later, but that's
just a timetable thing). A colleague flying Business Class on United got
bumped Saturday (flight cancelled) and had to wait 24hrs for the next
flight.

But, for the premium paid to travel first class and for the fact that it
was not his fault, did the airline look after him?

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:40:32 on
Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Paul Corfield remarked:
I would rather have needles stuck in my eyes than fly Ryanair.

Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the
chattering campaign about them?

Am I allowed to say I have never travelled with them and never will?

So 100% prejudice. Glad we got that out in the open.

This is based on what you'd probably call an irrational dislike of their
business model and of dear old Mr O'Leary. He's a clever bloke but I
don't like his business methods or attitudes whereby Ryanair are always
right and everyone else can go hang.

If I want to experience bus travel then I'll use a bus thanks very much!

Or quite a lot of trains. Indeed, Ryanair's planes are mainly pretty
new, and not bad to travel on at all.

No reclining seats, no pouch in the back of the previous seats,
instructions printed onto the back of each seat, surly staff, and
possibly standing room only in the future.

I'm just wondering how this doesn't differ from the Tube.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

Neil Williams wrote:
On Oct 13, 2:51 pm, Roland Perry wrote:

Which is the same reason most people won't travel by train.

Indeed. Ryanair, as with trains, can be fine. I have used them
several times and have never had any kind of problem (other than lack
of legroom), nor been hit with any "hidden" fees.

Neil
I've heard reports that they in the past charged people £4 for a
boarding pass, just out of the blue, with no warning whatsoever. I don't
mean the current £40 that one has to pay if they have forgotten to check
in on line or forgotten their boarding pass.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
07:04:27 on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, Neil Williams remarked:

Which is the same reason most people won't travel by train.

Indeed. Ryanair, as with trains, can be fine.

I see people getting on and off Ryanair flights almost every week. They
don't seem especially distressed. Only flown them once myself (apart
from 20 years ago) and it was fine. If anything the Berlin Metro train
to get to the airport, plus the long walk to the actual airport from the
station [1], was the worst aspect of the trip.

Oddest thing for a frequent flyer is the way they use the airplane's own
stairs, not even the airport's stairs, to get onto the plane. That's
what you expect on the little Fokkers (tm), but not on a huge 737!

[1] Presumably that's Ryanair's fault too!!
Is that a normal feature on most 737s, to have their own retractable stairs?

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

Recliner wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message

In message , at 21:19:24
on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Paul Corfield remarked:

I don't feel I have lost out by not travelling by Ryanair. I would
hope Mr O'Leary's planes are pretty new given the huge rate of
expansion that he has managed with his airline
I'm sure it's part of his business plan to buy new planes to give easy
and consistent maintenance and operations. As opposed to BMIbaby who
have a rag-bag collection of surprisingly old planes.

Yes, Ryanair buys huge batches of identical planes from Boeing (but
always with the threat of defecting to Airbus, as easyJet did), for
knock-down prices. O'Leary proudly shows off about ordering them during
recessions, when he can get the best deal. They are then kept for a
relatively short time, before being sold on, with little or no
depreciation (as Ryanair buys them for less than the second-hand price).


IIRC , the Panorama report stated that he was practically ready to do a
deal with Airbus, then backed out at the last minute. I think that one
of the Airbus executives also said that Ryanair were trying to secure
planes at unacceptably low prices.