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Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
On Oct 11, 4:51*pm, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:09:57 +0900, Miles Bader wrote: Roland Perry writes: Ha! *If you'd fly a Korean airline, you could have violent and insane too! What a strange remark. Are you a xenophobic?. Er, no. *It was a joke (no doubt a poor one), but based on real experience (and if you know anything about Korea, you'd know that Koreans can be ... feisty). On what basis would you attempt to justify such racist remarks? Guys, I think you're taking his words too seriously. I'm Korean and I see some truth to what he says. I agree he exaggerated a little but if I heard that, I'd just laugh and take it as what it is: a joke, so just chill. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"Bruce" wrote in message
... In future, if I can avoid Ryanair, I will do so; if I can fly EasyJet, I will do so. *applause* I would rather have needles stuck in my eyes than fly Ryanair. If their flights are the only option, I go somewhere else! Ian |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message , at 08:49:16 on Mon, 12
Oct 2009, Ian F. remarked: I would rather have needles stuck in my eyes than fly Ryanair. Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the chattering campaign about them? -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
... Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the chattering campaign about them? I've had a couple of bad experiences - herded around like cattle, talked at by snotty-nosed ground staff like I was a piece of ****, shown no respect whatsoever... I'm a reasonably frequent flyer and I'm too old and dyed-in-the-wool to worry about saving a few pennies to be treated like that. I'd far rather spend the extra and be shown some degree of care. And this is not just me - I know dozens of friends and colleagues that feel the same way. I have always found easyJet to be far superior in every way to Ryanair, although, understandably, not on a level with the major airlines. I would travel with them like a shot, but I will never, ever, ever travel Ryanair. That said, I know millions of people are happy being treated like **** in order to save a couple of quid - that is their prerogative and I'm glad that Ryanair is there to provide them with what they require. Ian |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"Ian F." gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying: Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the chattering campaign about them? I've had a couple of bad experiences - herded around like cattle, talked at by snotty-nosed ground staff like I was a piece of ****, shown no respect whatsoever... I'm a reasonably frequent flyer and I'm too old and dyed-in-the-wool to worry about saving a few pennies to be treated like that. I'd far rather spend the extra and be shown some degree of care. And this is not just me - I know dozens of friends and colleagues that feel the same way. I have always found easyJet to be far superior in every way to Ryanair, although, understandably, not on a level with the major airlines. I would travel with them like a shot, but I will never, ever, ever travel Ryanair. I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out of you in compulsory "extras" - but I've also sworn off SleazyJet after direct personal experience about ten years ago. I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late evening flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't available for boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all the passengers being left at the gate with no staff, no information, no access to refreshments - for SIX HOURS. We finally got to Luton at about 3am, IIRC. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message , at 09:32:02 on Mon, 12
Oct 2009, Ian F. remarked: I know millions of people are happy being treated like **** in order to save a couple of quid - that is their prerogative and I'm glad that Ryanair is there to provide them with what they require. And to some extent trains and buses serve a similar purpose. It's not just Maggie who thinks public transport is for losers :( -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
In message , at 07:39:54 on Sun, 11 Oct 2009, D7666 remarked: I regularly fly easyJet and it isn't hassle at all. So do I but they've just cut the most useful route for me - Luton - Wien. I'm using it again next week, buts its axed in their November changes, and its rported not just a winter t.t. cut, its permanent. Ditto East Midlands-Geneva :( BmiBaby fly that route, but only at weekends, and at entirely the wrong times of day. So I'll be "forced" to use Luton again, I suppose. I wonder how long bmibaby will remain in existence? I assume Lufthansa will sell it off, give it away or shut it down at the earliest possible opportunity. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message , at 08:43:40 on Mon, 12
Oct 2009, Adrian remarked: I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out of you in compulsory "extras" If you add together the number of people swearing this, plus the number of people who *do* actually fly, I wonder if it exceeds 100% of the flying population? [Ryanair are Europe's biggest carrier, and will fly 67 million people this year]. - but I've also sworn off SleazyJet after direct personal experience about ten years ago. I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late evening flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't available for boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all the passengers being left at the gate with no staff, no information, no access to refreshments - for SIX HOURS. We finally got to Luton at about 3am, IIRC. That happens with full-fare airlines too. There are newish EU rules about providing refreshment vouchers etc. -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
On 12 Oct, 09:50, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:32:02 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Ian F. remarked: I know millions of people are happy being treated like **** in order to save a couple of quid - that is their prerogative and I'm glad that Ryanair is there to provide them with what they require. And to some extent trains and buses serve a similar purpose. It's not just Maggie who thinks public transport is for losers :( -- Roland Perry The thing is to resist every move by the railways to follow the Ryanair model. Don't be fooled by the "get what you pay for" arguments. Low price for poor service seems fine to me, but the trickery is not, and nor is the gambling. Currently the railway operators don't just wash their hands of their customers and leave them stranded, no matter how little they've paid. "Sorry, train cancelled. Here's your AP fare back. Now find somewhere to stay the night and get an Anytime single tomorrow. If you like you can use it now on a train at exactly the same time as the one that was cancelled ..." |
Wafted from paradise to Futon Airport
Miles Bader wrote:
Roland Perry writes: You'll wear that spade out, if you aren't careful. Do you think I'm lying? He thinks you should stop digging. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632922.html (40 122 at Manchester Piccadilly, 8 Jun 1985) |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
Roland Perry gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying: I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out of you in compulsory "extras" If you add together the number of people swearing this, plus the number of people who *do* actually fly, I wonder if it exceeds 100% of the flying population? [Ryanair are Europe's biggest carrier, and will fly 67 million people this year]. That's not 67m _individuals_, is it...? I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late evening flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't available for boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all the passengers being left at the gate with no staff, no information, no access to refreshments - for SIX HOURS. We finally got to Luton at about 3am, IIRC. That happens with full-fare airlines too. The mechanical problems do, yes. They're unavoidable. The _communication_ problems? No. Not IME. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 08:43:40 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Adrian remarked: I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out of you in compulsory "extras" If you add together the number of people swearing this, plus the number of people who *do* actually fly, I wonder if it exceeds 100% of the flying population? [Ryanair are Europe's biggest carrier, and will fly 67 million people this year]. I would never voluntarily fly Ryanair but the office still books me to fly with them on occasion. -- Graeme Wall This address not read, substitute trains for rail Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"MC" wrote in message
ster.com "rail" wrote in message ... Using Heathrow is much more hassle than anything a low cost airline can throw at me. T5 is actually pleasant to use, which is more than one can say about Luton. However I appreciate getting there from Nottingham is not the best journery in the world. T1 is also not too bad (a little busy at times) but I have found it OK. As is T4. Never had the privilege to use T2 but T3 is the pits. Really, the pits. You probably won't have an opportunity to use T2, as it will be demolished shortly. But it had the shortest walks of any LHR terminal, as it's the smallest (and most claustrophobic). It was shabby and run-down towards the end, and few will be sad to see it gone. The new T1 gates can have some very long walks, more than any other LHR terminal, and it's destined to be a building site for the next few years. T3 has been greatly improved over the last few years, but still suffers from long immigration queues at busy times, even in the EU lines. The T4 extension gates (eg, 25) are a very long walk, almost as much as anything in T1 or T3. But if travelling by Tube or Heathrow Express, T5 is by far the best LHR terminal (last week, it took me just ten minutes from the Piccadilly Line train, up to departures, through security, to my armchair in the BA north lounge). It also has shorter walks airside than the older large terminals. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message , at 09:20:44 on Mon, 12
Oct 2009, Adrian remarked: I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out of you in compulsory "extras" If you add together the number of people swearing this, plus the number of people who *do* actually fly, I wonder if it exceeds 100% of the flying population? [Ryanair are Europe's biggest carrier, and will fly 67 million people this year]. That's not 67m _individuals_, is it...? No, but what's the average number of flights people make with them per year? I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late evening flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't available for boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all the passengers being left at the gate with no staff, no information, no access to refreshments - for SIX HOURS. We finally got to Luton at about 3am, IIRC. That happens with full-fare airlines too. The mechanical problems do, yes. They're unavoidable. The _communication_ problems? No. Not IME. Sadly, the communications problems often exist, whatever the airline. -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message
, at 02:04:03 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, MIG remarked: On 12 Oct, 09:50, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:32:02 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Ian F. remarked: I know millions of people are happy being treated like **** in order to save a couple of quid - that is their prerogative and I'm glad that Ryanair is there to provide them with what they require. And to some extent trains and buses serve a similar purpose. It's not just Maggie who thinks public transport is for losers :( The thing is to resist every move by the railways to follow the Ryanair model. Don't be fooled by the "get what you pay for" arguments. Low price for poor service seems fine to me, but the trickery is not, and nor is the gambling. The so-called "simplified" fare system, plus opaque routing restrictions, means that train fares are at least as bad. Currently the railway operators don't just wash their hands of their customers and leave them stranded, no matter how little they've paid. Actually, they do. You just tune out the reports. "Sorry, train cancelled. Here's your AP fare back. Now find somewhere to stay the night and get an Anytime single tomorrow. If you like you can use it now on a train at exactly the same time as the one that was cancelled ..." Ah, that's a common one of the "chattering criticisms". But does it actually happen any more? The closest is probably "You need to catch the next available flight, which is tomorrow" (or possibly later, but that's just a timetable thing). A colleague flying Business Class on United got bumped Saturday (flight cancelled) and had to wait 24hrs for the next flight. -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message , at 09:53:37 on
Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Recliner remarked: BmiBaby fly that route, but only at weekends, and at entirely the wrong times of day. So I'll be "forced" to use Luton again, I suppose. I wonder how long bmibaby will remain in existence? They are currently adding planes and routes at East Midlands. I assume Lufthansa will sell it off, give it away or shut it down at the earliest possible opportunity. They've owned it (80% rather than just 30%) for a year now, so FSVO "early". But there are rumours it might be sold to FlyBE. -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
In message , at 09:53:37 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Recliner remarked: BmiBaby fly that route, but only at weekends, and at entirely the wrong times of day. So I'll be "forced" to use Luton again, I suppose. I wonder how long bmibaby will remain in existence? They are currently adding planes and routes at East Midlands. I assume Lufthansa will sell it off, give it away or shut it down at the earliest possible opportunity. They've owned it (80% rather than just 30%) for a year now, so FSVO "early". But there are rumours it might be sold to FlyBE. No, it's not owned it for a year. Lufthansa took full control just days ago, and only acquired majority control as recently as July, after settling the court case with Bishop. Consequently, I think it's safe to say that bmi is still running under its old business plan. For example, Wolfgang Prock-Schauer, the new Lufthansa-appointed bmi CEO will not assume the role until 1 December. Clearly, Lufthansa would like to sell most or all of bmi, probably in multiple pieces, and bmibaby is probably the least valuable part. If no-one wants to pay anything for the heavily loss-making bmibaby, Lufthansa may just shut it down. After all, Flybe could open any of bmibaby's routes that it fancies without paying for the privilege, and it operates a different fleet to bmibaby. It's not as if bmibaby owns any valuable slots. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In alt.travel.uk.air Neil Williams wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:24:34 +0100, " wrote: Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more. I fly from Luton because it's local. An 0700 flight is bad enough without a 2-hour end to end journey to Thiefrow. And also you have to consider the costs to getting to the airport. For me to Athens, Heathrow costs about 35 quid/3 hours on the bus, while Luton is 12 quid/1h20. There are times when BA matches EZY on price, but not with the extra time, bus fare, and increased risk of missing the flight due to M25 delays. (A new option is Aegean from Stansted, which is good but a bit on the pricey side most of the time) Theo |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
On 12 Oct 2009 08:43:40 GMT, Adrian wrote:
"Ian F." gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the chattering campaign about them? I've had a couple of bad experiences - herded around like cattle, talked at by snotty-nosed ground staff like I was a piece of ****, shown no respect whatsoever... I'm a reasonably frequent flyer and I'm too old and dyed-in-the-wool to worry about saving a few pennies to be treated like that. I'd far rather spend the extra and be shown some degree of care. And this is not just me - I know dozens of friends and colleagues that feel the same way. I have always found easyJet to be far superior in every way to Ryanair, although, understandably, not on a level with the major airlines. I would travel with them like a shot, but I will never, ever, ever travel Ryanair. I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out of you in compulsory "extras" - but I've also sworn off SleazyJet after direct personal experience about ten years ago. I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late evening flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't available for boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all the passengers being left at the gate with no staff, no information, no access to refreshments - for SIX HOURS. We finally got to Luton at about 3am, IIRC. I used to commute weekly from Heathrow to Schiphol in the late 1980s. I had a similar experience with BA, involving a five hour wait at Schiphol on a Friday evening, with the aircraft still not having left Heathrow on the preceding flight. No attempt was made to transfer us to KLM, which would have saved several hours, and only after many complaints were refreshments provided. I decided to reject BA in favour of BMI (called British Midland in those days). It happened twice more with BMI, once with a four hour delay and once with a seven hour delay, meaning I arrived home in West London about 2:00 AM. But the overall service of NMI was so much better than BA that I stayed with them. Plus, it was only two flights in around 50, so it wasn't too bad. My point is that flag carriers such as BA and "full price" airlines such as BMI have similar problems to the low cost, as do rail operators. What they all share is that they are all spectacularly bad at dealing with them, in most cases. However. it was one area where GNER absolutely shone. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:04:03 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote: The thing is to resist every move by the railways to follow the Ryanair model. In many respects the TOCs are far, far worse. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"Bruce" wrote in message
... On 12 Oct 2009 08:43:40 GMT, Adrian wrote: "Ian F." gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the chattering campaign about them? I've had a couple of bad experiences - herded around like cattle, talked at by snotty-nosed ground staff like I was a piece of ****, shown no respect whatsoever... I'm a reasonably frequent flyer and I'm too old and dyed-in-the-wool to worry about saving a few pennies to be treated like that. I'd far rather spend the extra and be shown some degree of care. And this is not just me - I know dozens of friends and colleagues that feel the same way. I have always found easyJet to be far superior in every way to Ryanair, although, understandably, not on a level with the major airlines. I would travel with them like a shot, but I will never, ever, ever travel Ryanair. I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out of you in compulsory "extras" - but I've also sworn off SleazyJet after direct personal experience about ten years ago. I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late evening flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't available for boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all the passengers being left at the gate with no staff, no information, no access to refreshments - for SIX HOURS. We finally got to Luton at about 3am, IIRC. I used to commute weekly from Heathrow to Schiphol in the late 1980s. I had a similar experience with BA, involving a five hour wait at Schiphol on a Friday evening, with the aircraft still not having left Heathrow on the preceding flight. No attempt was made to transfer us to KLM, which would have saved several hours, and only after many complaints were refreshments provided. I decided to reject BA in favour of BMI (called British Midland in those days). It happened twice more with BMI, once with a four hour delay and once with a seven hour delay, meaning I arrived home in West London about 2:00 AM. But the overall service of NMI was so much better than BA that I stayed with them. Plus, it was only two flights in around 50, so it wasn't too bad. My point is that flag carriers such as BA and "full price" airlines such as BMI have similar problems to the low cost, as do rail operators. What they all share is that they are all spectacularly bad at dealing with them, in most cases. However. it was one area where GNER absolutely shone. Er... this was 20+ years ago. How can you compare your experiences with modern flying trends. The airline industry and regulations have moved on enormously since then. Budget airlines were still only a twinkle in the eyes of a lot of the current budget airline bosses. I have flown almost exclusively with BA in that last 8 or 9 years and have never had a problem with them apart from one occasion when we had to wait for 2hrs, onboard, before we could depart. However, the crew were very good with refreshments etc... during that time. Had I been sat on a Ryanair plane I somehow doubt the "FREE" refreshments would have bee so forthcoming. The only times I have ever had reason to complain was when I have flown with budget airlines. One time was BMI Baby the other Thomas Cook Airlines. MC |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 22:36:40 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: I always thought Brussels Airlines regarded themselves as a full service carrier. They used to do codeshares with BA (when BA still flew from regional airports up to about a year ago), and are a member of one of the three big FF clubs. The advertising I've seen positions them as a budget airline. They do have a 'premium' fare class, which probably equates to full service. On the Manchester-Brussels flight, FWIW, they were code sharing with BMI and accepting Diamond Club cards. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message , at 18:40:32 on
Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Paul Corfield remarked: I would rather have needles stuck in my eyes than fly Ryanair. Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the chattering campaign about them? Am I allowed to say I have never travelled with them and never will? So 100% prejudice. Glad we got that out in the open. This is based on what you'd probably call an irrational dislike of their business model and of dear old Mr O'Leary. He's a clever bloke but I don't like his business methods or attitudes whereby Ryanair are always right and everyone else can go hang. If I want to experience bus travel then I'll use a bus thanks very much! Or quite a lot of trains. Indeed, Ryanair's planes are mainly pretty new, and not bad to travel on at all. -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
wrote in message ... Same here. I also find getting to Heathrow a lot easier than Stansted or Luton, for example. Unfortunately the time from touchdown to hire car is longer than the flight from schipol when you go via Heathrow. You will have to get used to it, the trend from the 60s onwards is for air travel to become functional and the term 'jet set' is probably meaningless to the majority, certainly not bringing to mind upper class exclusive travel. Give it a few years and Business Class air travel will be the same concept as the business class section of the underground trains. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message , at 20:21:37 on
Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Mr G remarked: I always thought Brussels Airlines regarded themselves as a full service carrier. They used to do codeshares with BA (when BA still flew from regional airports up to about a year ago), and are a member of one of the three big FF clubs. The advertising I've seen positions them as a budget airline. They can't make their mind up. But codeshares with a full service airline are the give-away. They do have a 'premium' fare class, which probably equates to full service. On the Manchester-Brussels flight, FWIW, they were code sharing with BMI and accepting Diamond Club cards. -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... That's North Korea. The poster did not state which part of Korea he was referring to. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"Bruce" wrote in message ... I disagree with your damning the whole Korean nation on the basis of simplistic and highly unreliable racial stereotyping, yes. One might view 'feisty as a compliment. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message , at 20:33:23 on Mon, 12
Oct 2009, Buddenbrooks remarked: That's North Korea. The poster did not state which part of Korea he was referring to. He mentioned flying a Korean airline. As North Korean ones are apparently banned from these parts, that only leaves South Korea. -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
Paul Corfield wrote on 12 October 2009 21:19:24 ...
On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:31:22 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 18:40:32 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Paul Corfield remarked: I would rather have needles stuck in my eyes than fly Ryanair. Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the chattering campaign about them? Am I allowed to say I have never travelled with them and never will? So 100% prejudice. Glad we got that out in the open. Sure. I'm not aware there is a rule against 100% blind prejudice. Anyway Mr O'Leary won't give a toss about not having me as one of his customers so I'd say we're about quits ;-) This is based on what you'd probably call an irrational dislike of their business model and of dear old Mr O'Leary. He's a clever bloke but I don't like his business methods or attitudes whereby Ryanair are always right and everyone else can go hang. If I want to experience bus travel then I'll use a bus thanks very much! Or quite a lot of trains. Indeed, Ryanair's planes are mainly pretty new, and not bad to travel on at all. Well yes but I would not call a decent Inter City train a bus. Eurostar does not resemble a bus. I travel on buses all the time and they're fine for their job as are plenty of trains and plenty of airlines. Even jammed full Class 378s are not buses - they're high capacity trains doing their job. I don't feel I have lost out by not travelling by Ryanair. I would hope Mr O'Leary's planes are pretty new given the huge rate of expansion that he has managed with his airline - doesn't stop them having faults nor having pilots that cannot find the correct airport though nor the operation being run on an absolute shoestring. Even if I was to discount half of the negative comments and reports I have read about Ryanair I would still not travel with them. I think that's a rational attitude, and I share it. There comes a point at which the volume of informed negative comment is so great that one can't ignore it. It's not "irrational", nor is it "blind prejudice". It's a valid risk assessment based on available evidence. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... He mentioned flying a Korean airline. As North Korean ones are apparently banned from these parts, that only leaves South Korea. -- The EC now permits its citizens, if issued with appropriate documentation, to take flights not originating or terminating within the EC. (fair usage restrictions apply) |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message , at 06:42:19 on Tue, 13
Oct 2009, Buddenbrooks remarked: He mentioned flying a Korean airline. As North Korean ones are apparently banned from these parts, that only leaves South Korea. The EC now permits its citizens, if issued with appropriate documentation, to take flights not originating or terminating within the EC. (fair usage restrictions apply) Wriggle wriggle. -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"MC" wrote in message
ster.com "Bruce" wrote in message ... On 12 Oct 2009 08:43:40 GMT, Adrian wrote: "Ian F." gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the chattering campaign about them? I've had a couple of bad experiences - herded around like cattle, talked at by snotty-nosed ground staff like I was a piece of ****, shown no respect whatsoever... I'm a reasonably frequent flyer and I'm too old and dyed-in-the-wool to worry about saving a few pennies to be treated like that. I'd far rather spend the extra and be shown some degree of care. And this is not just me - I know dozens of friends and colleagues that feel the same way. I have always found easyJet to be far superior in every way to Ryanair, although, understandably, not on a level with the major airlines. I would travel with them like a shot, but I will never, ever, ever travel Ryanair. I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out of you in compulsory "extras" - but I've also sworn off SleazyJet after direct personal experience about ten years ago. I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late evening flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't available for boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all the passengers being left at the gate with no staff, no information, no access to refreshments - for SIX HOURS. We finally got to Luton at about 3am, IIRC. I used to commute weekly from Heathrow to Schiphol in the late 1980s. I had a similar experience with BA, involving a five hour wait at Schiphol on a Friday evening, with the aircraft still not having left Heathrow on the preceding flight. No attempt was made to transfer us to KLM, which would have saved several hours, and only after many complaints were refreshments provided. I decided to reject BA in favour of BMI (called British Midland in those days). It happened twice more with BMI, once with a four hour delay and once with a seven hour delay, meaning I arrived home in West London about 2:00 AM. But the overall service of NMI was so much better than BA that I stayed with them. Plus, it was only two flights in around 50, so it wasn't too bad. My point is that flag carriers such as BA and "full price" airlines such as BMI have similar problems to the low cost, as do rail operators. What they all share is that they are all spectacularly bad at dealing with them, in most cases. However. it was one area where GNER absolutely shone. Er... this was 20+ years ago. How can you compare your experiences with modern flying trends. The airline industry and regulations have moved on enormously since then. Budget airlines were still only a twinkle in the eyes of a lot of the current budget airline bosses. I have flown almost exclusively with BA in that last 8 or 9 years and have never had a problem with them apart from one occasion when we had to wait for 2hrs, onboard, before we could depart. However, the crew were very good with refreshments etc... during that time. Had I been sat on a Ryanair plane I somehow doubt the "FREE" refreshments would have bee so forthcoming. The only times I have ever had reason to complain was when I have flown with budget airlines. One time was BMI Baby the other Thomas Cook Airlines. I've had a couple of occasions when BA cancelled flights because of bad weather at Heathrow. In neither case did it deal with them well. I'd agree with Tony that British Midland was better than BA in the 1980s, but it lost its way later, when it couldn't decide what kind of airline it wanted to be. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"Buddenbrooks" wrote in message
wrote in message ... Same here. I also find getting to Heathrow a lot easier than Stansted or Luton, for example. Unfortunately the time from touchdown to hire car is longer than the flight from schipol when you go via Heathrow. You will have to get used to it, the trend from the 60s onwards is for air travel to become functional and the term 'jet set' is probably meaningless to the majority, certainly not bringing to mind upper class exclusive travel. Give it a few years and Business Class air travel will be the same concept as the business class section of the underground trains. Actually, long haul business class has improved steadily over the years, and is now as good a sfirst class used to be. |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message , at 10:37:43 on
Tue, 13 Oct 2009, Recliner remarked: Give it a few years and Business Class air travel will be the same concept as the business class section of the underground trains. Actually, long haul business class has improved steadily over the years, and is now as good a sfirst class used to be. I'd agree with that. Airlines that have lie-flat or almost-flat seats in business class really don't need to have a FC at all (and some don't any more). -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
... In message , at 10:37:43 on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, Recliner remarked: Give it a few years and Business Class air travel will be the same concept as the business class section of the underground trains. Actually, long haul business class has improved steadily over the years, and is now as good a sfirst class used to be. I'd agree with that. Airlines that have lie-flat or almost-flat seats in business class really don't need to have a FC at all (and some don't any more). -- Roland Perry I have used BC many times on a few airlines but I have found the "new" Club Class on BA to be the best I have experienced. BC on many airlines does, indeed, far surpass "old" FC cabins but the new FC cabins can offer excellent privacy. Has anyone had the fortune to travel FC on a Singapore Airlines or Emirates A380 :o) http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_U...uite/index.jsp http://www.emirates.com/om/English/f...rst_class.aspx MC -- Thank you for listening |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message , at 21:19:24 on
Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Paul Corfield remarked: If I want to experience bus travel then I'll use a bus thanks very much! Or quite a lot of trains. Indeed, Ryanair's planes are mainly pretty new, and not bad to travel on at all. Well yes but I would not call a decent Inter City train a bus. Ah the "Jimmy Saville Age of the Train" canard. Everyone seated alone at a table-for-four on an HST. Eurostar does not resemble a bus. And most trains don't resemble Eurostar. I travel on buses all the time and they're fine for their job So do I - and they get a bad image. Having spent a week in Geneva, you'd be surprised at the number of oytsiders prepared to pay £20 for a taxi ride that was slower than a very acceptable [free] bus. Although some of that is probably the worry of having to understand announcements exclusively in French abut where to get off :( And despite their widespread reputation for efficiency my 5.30am bus to the airport was ten minutes late (and the roads deserted of course, so no excuse there). as are plenty of trains and plenty of airlines. Even jammed full Class 378s are not buses - they're high capacity trains doing their job. You might not get many people on (eg) rammed unrefurbished 158s agreeing with that point of view. Trains can be very good, but also very bad. I don't feel I have lost out by not travelling by Ryanair. I would hope Mr O'Leary's planes are pretty new given the huge rate of expansion that he has managed with his airline I'm sure it's part of his business plan to buy new planes to give easy and consistent maintenance and operations. As opposed to BMIbaby who have a rag-bag collection of surprisingly old planes. Even if I was to discount half of the negative comments and reports I have read about Ryanair I would still not travel with them. Which is the same reason most people won't travel by train. -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
On Oct 13, 2:51*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
Which is the same reason most people won't travel by train. Indeed. Ryanair, as with trains, can be fine. I have used them several times and have never had any kind of problem (other than lack of legroom), nor been hit with any "hidden" fees. Neil |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
In message .com, at
14:49:38 on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, MC remarked: I have used BC many times on a few airlines but I have found the "new" Club Class on BA to be the best I have experienced. There are many things right about it, but also a few rough edges. It's really difficult to serve food to people with window seats, for example, because the people seated on the aisle get in the way. BC on many airlines does, indeed, far surpass "old" FC cabins but the new FC cabins can offer excellent privacy. Has anyone had the fortune to travel FC on a Singapore Airlines or Emirates A380 :o) Not yet, but I may travel in Business on an Emirates 380 in the spring. FC is a stupid price! -- Roland Perry |
Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
In message , at 21:19:24 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Paul Corfield remarked: I don't feel I have lost out by not travelling by Ryanair. I would hope Mr O'Leary's planes are pretty new given the huge rate of expansion that he has managed with his airline I'm sure it's part of his business plan to buy new planes to give easy and consistent maintenance and operations. As opposed to BMIbaby who have a rag-bag collection of surprisingly old planes. Yes, Ryanair buys huge batches of identical planes from Boeing (but always with the threat of defecting to Airbus, as easyJet did), for knock-down prices. O'Leary proudly shows off about ordering them during recessions, when he can get the best deal. They are then kept for a relatively short time, before being sold on, with little or no depreciation (as Ryanair buys them for less than the second-hand price). |
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