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Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On Oct 10, 5:49*pm, "DB." wrote:
* * Six Scotland Yard officers have been caught using their warrant cards to get free first class rail travel. * * They now face a misconduct hearing for abusing the Met's scheme - which allows standard class trips. More at:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...s-caught-in-fr... or http://tinyurl.com/ylrpvx7 -- DB. Daily Mirror Cops caught in free first class rail rap 10/10/2009 http://tinyurl.com/ylrpvx7 MISCONDUCT Six Scotland Yard officers have been caught using their warrant cards to get free first class rail travel. They now face a misconduct hearing for abusing the Met's scheme - which allows standard class trips. Under the arrangement, officers can get to work free on all trains from within 70 miles of London if they police the carriages. But two detectives in the counter-terrorism unit and a sergeant and three constables from Westminster were identified as rule breakers in an operation by an anti-corruption squad on September 11. The Met has already been asked to justify the £24million annual cost of the free travel scheme. Commander Moir Stewart said: "It is unacceptable for a minority to misuse this concession." |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 11 Oct, 16:45, CJB wrote:
On Oct 10, 5:49*pm, "DB." wrote: * * Six Scotland Yard officers have been caught using their warrant cards to get free first class rail travel. * * They now face a misconduct hearing for abusing the Met's scheme - which allows standard class trips. More at:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...s-caught-in-fr... orhttp://tinyurl.com/ylrpvx7 -- DB. Daily Mirror Cops caught in free first class rail rap 10/10/2009 http://tinyurl.com/ylrpvx7 MISCONDUCT Six Scotland Yard officers have been caught using their warrant cards to get free first class rail travel. They now face a misconduct hearing for abusing the Met's scheme - which allows standard class trips. Under the arrangement, officers can get to work free on all trains from within 70 miles of London if they police the carriages. But two detectives in the counter-terrorism unit and a sergeant and three constables from Westminster were identified as rule breakers in an operation by an anti-corruption squad on September 11. The Met has already been asked to justify the £24million annual cost of the free travel scheme. Commander Moir Stewart said: "It is unacceptable for a minority to misuse this concession." It seems extremely minor to me. I would have thought that if a policeman is in first, and is not asked to move by a ticket inspector, then it is not the PC's fault. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 08:45:00 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote: Under the arrangement, officers can get to work free on all trains from within 70 miles of London if they police the carriages. Are they "policing the carriages" if they read their newspaper or listen to their MP3 player? Or does that count as "undercover" policing? I wonder if MI5 officers get the same concession. Or is this just another example of the police bullying their way into getting all kinds of discounts and freebies? |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:32:19 -0700 (PDT), Offramp
wrote: It seems extremely minor to me. I would have thought that if a policeman is in first, and is not asked to move by a ticket inspector, then it is not the PC's fault. On the contrary, if the PC is not entitled to travel first class, but does, then he/she is by definition committing an offence. It does not need to be drawn to the PC's attention to be defined as an offence. Then again, this is hardly the first time that the police have been shown to consider themselves above the law. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
In message , at 18:07:57 on
Sun, 11 Oct 2009, Bruce remarked: Under the arrangement, officers can get to work free on all trains from within 70 miles of London if they police the carriages. Are they "policing the carriages" if they read their newspaper or listen to their MP3 player? Or does that count as "undercover" policing? I wonder if MI5 officers get the same concession. Or is this just another example of the police bullying their way into getting all kinds of discounts and freebies? Most off-duty police officers will intervene if something "kicks off" in their vicinity. What this scheme does is encourage them to be on the train, rather than driving. -- Roland Perry |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
Roland Perry wrote on 11 October 2009 18:31:29 ...
In message , at 18:07:57 on Sun, 11 Oct 2009, Bruce remarked: Under the arrangement, officers can get to work free on all trains from within 70 miles of London if they police the carriages. Are they "policing the carriages" if they read their newspaper or listen to their MP3 player? Or does that count as "undercover" policing? I wonder if MI5 officers get the same concession. Or is this just another example of the police bullying their way into getting all kinds of discounts and freebies? Most off-duty police officers will intervene if something "kicks off" in their vicinity. .... which is far less likely to occur in first class, would you not agree? How very convenient for them. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
In message , at 20:09:17
on Sun, 11 Oct 2009, Richard J. remarked: Most off-duty police officers will intervene if something "kicks off" in their vicinity. ... which is far less likely to occur in first class, would you not agree? How very convenient for them. They aren't allowed, so it's a moot point. -- Roland Perry |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
"Richard J." writes:
I wonder if MI5 officers get the same concession. Or is this just another example of the police bullying their way into getting all kinds of discounts and freebies? Most off-duty police officers will intervene if something "kicks off" in their vicinity. ... which is far less likely to occur in first class, would you not agree? How very convenient for them. Still, something probably happens occasionally. What they could do is have a small number of "first class upgrades" available to police officers and have a lottery to make them available to those officers who wish to use the service. -Miles -- Bride, n. A woman with a fine prospect of happiness behind her. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
Richard J. wrote:
Roland Perry wrote on 11 October 2009 18:31:29 ... In message , at 18:07:57 on Sun, 11 Oct 2009, Bruce remarked: Under the arrangement, officers can get to work free on all trains from within 70 miles of London if they police the carriages. Are they "policing the carriages" if they read their newspaper or listen to their MP3 player? Or does that count as "undercover" policing? I wonder if MI5 officers get the same concession. Or is this just another example of the police bullying their way into getting all kinds of discounts and freebies? Most off-duty police officers will intervene if something "kicks off" in their vicinity. ... which is far less likely to occur in first class, would you not agree? How very convenient for them. They might be able to arrest someone for travelling in first class when not entitiled. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
In message , at 07:13:21 on Mon, 12 Oct
2009, Miles Bader remarked: Most off-duty police officers will intervene if something "kicks off" in their vicinity. ... which is far less likely to occur in first class, would you not agree? How very convenient for them. Still, something probably happens occasionally. What they could do is have a small number of "first class upgrades" available to police officers and have a lottery to make them available to those officers who wish to use the service. Given that these are police commuting to their jobs mainly in Central London from the suburbs, are there really that many services with FC? -- Roland Perry |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 12 Oct, 07:19, Roland Perry wrote:
Given that these are police commuting to their jobs mainly in Central London from the suburbs, are there really that many services with FC? From within 70 miles out?......FGW, NXEA, NXEC (Peterborough), SouthEastern, Southern (Brighton), FCC (Cambridge) - more TOCs offer 1st than don't. Initially brought in by the Met (Only) as a way of enticing police into an under-strength Met (usually to other SouthEast forces loss) a few years ago. THe TOCs 'agreed' if they were in uniform and willing to act if necessary. The abuse of 1st class is akin to using their forces credit cards on private purchases, even if they make a refund afterwards. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
In message
, at 05:36:46 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Chris remarked: THe TOCs 'agreed' if they were in uniform and willing to act if necessary. That's wrong, so maybe the rest of what you say is also wrong (a Detective Chief Superintendent of my acquaintance explained the system to me, as we bumped into one another on the tube one day). -- Roland Perry |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 12 Oct, 07:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:13:21 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Miles Bader remarked: Most off-duty police officers will intervene if something "kicks off" in their vicinity. ... which is far less likely to occur in first class, would you not agree? How very convenient for them. Still, something probably happens occasionally. *What they could do is have a small number of "first class upgrades" available to police officers and have a lottery to make them available to those officers who wish to use the service. Given that these are police commuting to their jobs mainly in Central London from the suburbs, are there really that many services with FC? -- Roland Perry Actually, there's a lot more than there used to be, probably creating a lot of confusion. Introduction of 377s and 450s, which probably numerically replace 423s that were only used in the peaks, has resulted in all sorts of suburban services being operated by 100 mph, air-conditioned units with first class, on routes where there are no first class fares. Punters now have to remember whether the first class is declassified or else leave bits of the train unnecessarily empty or keep straying into the first class where it's still classified. (It's funny how people are squeamish about going into the first class area even in charter trains where they've hired the whole thing.) |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 12 Oct, 14:23, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 05:36:46 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Chris remarked: THe TOCs 'agreed' if they were in uniform and willing to act if necessary. That's wrong, so maybe the rest of what you say is also wrong (a Detective Chief Superintendent of my acquaintance explained the system to me, as we bumped into one another on the tube one day). -- Roland Perry From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all and never has been. Not sure what the official line really is, but when I used to commute from Biggleswade a few years back there were two Met guys that travelled home on the 22.21 / 23.21 off of the Cross who were never in uniform, but, to their credit chipped in with anti social behavour issues on a few occasions and ejected people at Arlesey, which I believe to be a bigger punishment than a penalty fare. Fat Richard |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
In message
, at 07:39:42 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Fat richard remarked: On 12 Oct, 14:23, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 05:36:46 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Chris remarked: THe TOCs 'agreed' if they were in uniform and willing to act if necessary. That's wrong, so maybe the rest of what you say is also wrong (a Detective Chief Superintendent of my acquaintance explained the system to me, as we bumped into one another on the tube one day). From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all and never has been. Indeed. ejected people at Arlesey, which I believe to be a bigger punishment than a penalty fare. A cruel and unusual punishment, for sure! -- Roland Perry |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
In message , at 07:39:42 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Fat richard remarked: On 12 Oct, 14:23, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 05:36:46 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Chris remarked: THe TOCs 'agreed' if they were in uniform and willing to act if necessary. That's wrong, so maybe the rest of what you say is also wrong (a Detective Chief Superintendent of my acquaintance explained the system to me, as we bumped into one another on the tube one day). From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all and never has been. In fact, surely off-duty cops don't wear uniform? |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
In message
"Willms" wrote: Am Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:12:07 UTC, schrieb "Recliner" auf uk.railway : From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all and never has been. In fact, surely off-duty cops don't wear uniform? On the way between home and their station they might be in uniform, right? I don't know about the Met but Hampshire officers tend to change out of uniform before leaving for home. -- Graeme Wall This address not read, substitute trains for rail Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
"Willms" wrote in message
Am Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:12:07 UTC, schrieb "Recliner" auf uk.railway : From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all and never has been. In fact, surely off-duty cops don't wear uniform? On the way between home and their station they might be in uniform, right? No, they change in the police station. They may be wearing part of the police uniform, but would have a civilian jacket on top so that people don't realise they are police. It certainly also used to be the case that British soldiers were never seen in uniform off duty (thanks to the IRA), but that rule may have been relaxed recently. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
In article , Recliner
writes From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all and never has been. In fact, surely off-duty cops don't wear uniform? Surely they're not expected to travel to and from work in civvies and change into/out-of uniform at their station? I haven't looked closely at a copper recently, but it *used* to be the case that an essential part of the uniform was a black-and-white chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant that the officer was no longer "in uniform". But that was a long time ago and things may have changed. -- Bill Borland |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 2009-10-12, Bill Borland wrote:
I haven't looked closely at a copper recently, but it *used* to be the case that an essential part of the uniform was a black-and-white chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant that the officer was no longer "in uniform". But that was a long time ago and things may have changed. They certainly have - it used to be the case that a policeman was never allowed to be out of uniform in public, whether on-duty or not. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 12 Oct, 07:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:13:21 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Miles Bader remarked: Most off-duty police officers will intervene if something "kicks off" in their vicinity. ... which is far less likely to occur in first class, would you not agree? How very convenient for them. Still, something probably happens occasionally. *What they could do is have a small number of "first class upgrades" available to police officers and have a lottery to make them available to those officers who wish to use the service. Given that these are police commuting to their jobs mainly in Central London from the suburbs, are there really that many services with FC? -- Roland Perry To address Polsons point about "police freebies" the idea originated from the railway industry back in BR days following a similar initiative by LT on buses and tube. All London and bordering forces were offered the facility and it was advertised both in papers and Police Review. I had the chance to use the BR facility, for reasns that will become apparant, but on occasion did use the LT facility. During the late 1980s I was on a day out from Reading in London and displayed my warrant card at the barrier for Euston Square and as I did so the staff member pointed along the corridor saying "Your mates need help along there.' I was then involved in a violent incident where staff and BTP officers were attacked. The details are not important but I ended up arresting one of several assailants who had caused serious facial injuries to a member of staff and then attacked two uniformed officers. A few days later I get a call to attend the Reading Chief Superintendents Office (a good old fashioned hard nosed copper called John Webb, liked by most, but feared by all). He'd received a letter of thanks from the senior officer covering the station where the BTP officers were based. I was asked to relate my side and he was all smiles. Then the question, 'How did the staff know who you were?" 'I showed my warrant card at the barrier.' Mr Webb then exploded with rage, a sight which at close quarters is something that sends the sphincter twitching. Unknown to me, when a few years earlier the free travel facility was offered to the above mentioned police forces, Colin Smith, the then Chief Constable, had told all officers that Thames Valley Police Officers would not be allowed to take advantage of the scheme. No one had told me, in fact no one on my shift of 30 officers was aware. So I had a brief well done, followed by a monster bollocking. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 12 Oct, 18:03, "Recliner" wrote:
"Willms" wrote in message Am Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:12:07 UTC, *schrieb "Recliner" *auf uk.railway : From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all and never has been. In fact, surely off-duty cops don't wear uniform? *On the way between home and their station they might be in uniform, right? No, they change in the police station. They may be wearing part of the police uniform, but would have a civilian jacket on top so that people don't realise they are police. It certainly also used to be the case that British soldiers were never seen in uniform off duty (thanks to the IRA), but that rule may have been relaxed recently. Correct |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
In message
, at 21:34:11 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Willms remarked: It is in the byelaws of most regional transit authorities (Verkehrsverbünde) that cops in uniform travel for free. I see that quite often, becaus Frankfurt's cop headquarter is on the U-Bahn line which I use to go to the city center. When off-duty, but still in uniform, do they continue to carry firearms? -- Roland Perry |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 12/10/2009 at 20:34:11 Willms (%mail)wrote: in
uk.railway Am Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:03:59 UTC, schrieb "Recliner" auf uk.railway : In fact, surely off-duty cops don't wear uniform? On the way between home and their station they might be in uniform, right? No, they change in the police station. Aha, that is different over here. It is in the byelaws of most regional transit authorities (Verkehrsverbünde) that cops in uniform travel for free. I see that quite often, becaus Frankfurt's cop headquarter is on the U-Bahn line which I use to go to the city center. Many years ago, back to the 1950s and earlier, on-duty police in uniform had a "duty armlet", a black and white band, worn on the left sleeve near the jacket cuff. -- Richard Hunt Now available! The Amazing Dr. Strousberg, The European Railway King For more information and orders go to http://www.calcaria.co.uk/ or http://www.lulu.com/content/paperbac...strousberg/743 1788 |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
wrote:
Unknown to me, when a few years earlier the free travel facility was offered to the above mentioned police forces, Colin Smith, the then Chief Constable, had told all officers that Thames Valley Police Officers would not be allowed to take advantage of the scheme. Was it just an edict, or was there an explanation to go with it? -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p15036443.html (Original "Great Western" nameplate on 47 500, 1979) |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 12 Oct, 22:04, Chris Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote: wrote: Unknown to me, when a few years earlier the free travel facility was offered to the above mentioned police forces, Colin Smith, the then Chief Constable, had told all officers that Thames Valley Police Officers would not be allowed to take advantage of the scheme. Was it just an edict, or was there an explanation to go with it? --http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p15036443.html (Original "Great Western" nameplate on 47 500, 1979) The CC, Colin Smith, decided TVP Officers were paid enough to pay their own fares, which rather missed the point given that TVP Officers were, and still are paid far less than officers working within the Greater London Area. The idea was to encourage police officers onto public transport, not offer an illegal inducement. He was well known for his puritanical views and we all noticed many backward steps in equipment and methods following the years of progress under Sir Peter Imbert. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
In message , Bill Borland
wrote: I haven't looked closely at a copper recently, but it *used* to be the case that an essential part of the uniform was a black-and-white chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant that the officer was no longer "in uniform". But that was a long time ago and things may have changed. That was abolished no later than about 1965. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message ... In message , Bill Borland wrote: I haven't looked closely at a copper recently, but it *used* to be the case that an essential part of the uniform was a black-and-white chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant that the officer was no longer "in uniform". But that was a long time ago and things may have changed. That was abolished no later than about 1965. As I understand it, a police constable is never "off duty" - although they may not be getting *paid* for their services, they *always* carry their Warrant when in public. Unless it puts them at personal risk of harm, they are *required* to intervene in any situation that needs the presence of police,. I have been told that the Warrant constitutes "uniform" - so, for example, a constable ordering you to stop your motor vehicle can do so simply by holding his Warrant in your view. Indeed, I've seen it done. -- MatSav |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
MatSav matthew | dot | savage | at | dsl | dot | pipex | dot | com
wrote "Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message , Bill Borland wrote: black-and-white chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant that That was abolished no later than about 1965. As I understand it, a police constable is never "off duty" - Not so. There were some hilarious cases where police were refused service in off-licenses and supermarkets due to a Victorian statute that referred to constables on duty frequenting licensed premises. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3357707.stm A hungry policeman was banned by shop staff from buying a sausage roll - under a law forbidding sale of refreshments for officers on duty. == In the past, removing the armband worked. More recently a radio conversation with a superior officer to get a order placing them off-duty but a chief constable was snookered because she had no superior officer. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/3569725.stm checkout staff at Tesco in Northallerton relented when Ms Cannings took off her hat and epaulettes and said she was no longer on duty. although they may not be getting *paid* for their services, they *always* carry their Warrant when in public. Unless it puts them at personal risk of harm, they are *required* to intervene in any situation that needs the presence of police,. I have been told that the Warrant constitutes "uniform" - so, for example, a constable ordering you to stop your motor vehicle can do so simply by holding his Warrant in your view. Indeed, I've seen it done. May work but have you a legal cite that it is legally binding ? -- Mike D |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 11 Oct, 16:45, CJB wrote:
On Oct 10, 5:49*pm, "DB." wrote: * * Six Scotland Yard officers have been caught using their warrant cards to get free first class rail travel. * * They now face a misconduct hearing for abusing the Met's scheme - which allows standard class trips. More at:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...s-caught-in-fr... orhttp://tinyurl.com/ylrpvx7 -- DB. Daily Mirror Cops caught in free first class rail rap 10/10/2009 http://tinyurl.com/ylrpvx7 MISCONDUCT Six Scotland Yard officers have been caught using their warrant cards to get free first class rail travel. They now face a misconduct hearing for abusing the Met's scheme - which allows standard class trips. Under the arrangement, officers can get to work free on all trains from within 70 miles of London if they police the carriages. But two detectives in the counter-terrorism unit and a sergeant and three constables from Westminster were identified as rule breakers in an operation by an anti-corruption squad on September 11. The Met has already been asked to justify the £24million annual cost of the free travel scheme. Commander Moir Stewart said: "It is unacceptable for a minority to misuse this concession." At least we can be sure that all the police granted this free travel privilege will have declared it ti HM Revenue and Customs and will be paying income tax and national insurance on the vakue of the benefit in kind. Because, after all, the police are law abiding citizens. As guardians of the law, they are of course always careful to honour the law. ;-) |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 13 Oct 2009 15:43:48 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote: MatSav matthew | dot | savage | at | dsl | dot | pipex | dot | com wrote "Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message , Bill Borland wrote: black-and-white chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant that That was abolished no later than about 1965. As I understand it, a police constable is never "off duty" - Not so. There were some hilarious cases where police were refused service in off-licenses and supermarkets due to a Victorian statute that referred to constables on duty frequenting licensed premises. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3357707.stm A hungry policeman was banned by shop staff from buying a sausage roll - under a law forbidding sale of refreshments for officers on duty. == In the past, removing the armband worked. More recently a radio conversation with a superior officer to get a order placing them off-duty but a chief constable was snookered because she had no superior officer. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/3569725.stm checkout staff at Tesco in Northallerton relented when Ms Cannings took off her hat and epaulettes and said she was no longer on duty. although they may not be getting *paid* for their services, they *always* carry their Warrant when in public. Unless it puts them at personal risk of harm, they are *required* to intervene in any situation that needs the presence of police,. I have been told that the Warrant constitutes "uniform" - so, for example, a constable ordering you to stop your motor vehicle can do so simply by holding his Warrant in your view. Indeed, I've seen it done. May work but have you a legal cite that it is legally binding ? A warrant card never constitutes "uniform" otherwise it would be a nonsense for certain actions to only be lawful when exercised by a "constable in uniform"; that requirement commonly involves motor vehicles but also applies in other matters. There are other cases where a constable not in uniform might be required to provide documentary proof of him/her being a constable such as IIRC when carrying out stop and search activities when in plain clothes or if a BTP constable not in uniform exercises powers under s.100 of the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 as explained in :- http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2001/en/01en24-c.htm where the documentary proof is not limited solely to a warrant card (which seems more of a bootstrap to allow for somewhat unusual circumstances). WRT stopping motor vehicles, motorists recognising a warrant card waved at them are not necessarily regarding it as a lawful instruction to stop etc. so much as a request for assistance. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
"Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... On 13 Oct 2009 15:43:48 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote: MatSav matthew | dot | savage | at | dsl | dot | pipex | dot | com wrote As I understand it, a police constable is never "off duty" - Not so. snip a useful explanation WRT stopping motor vehicles, motorists recognising a warrant card waved at them are not necessarily regarding it as a lawful instruction to stop etc. so much as a request for assistance. Thanks - it would seem you are much better informed than I was. I consider myself corrected. -- MatSav |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
In article , Clive D. W. Feather
writes In message , Bill Borland wrote: I haven't looked closely at a copper recently, but it *used* to be the case that an essential part of the uniform was a black-and-white chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant that the officer was no longer "in uniform". But that was a long time ago and things may have changed. That was abolished no later than about 1965. Thank you. I'm afraid I am showing my age. I paid attention this afternoon; all our local (Met) police were wearing short-sleeved shirts - nowhere to attach an armband. My goodness - that would have been quite unheard of fifty years ago. -- Bill Borland All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral or fattening. (Alexander Woollcott, 1887-1943) |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:51:08 -0700 (PDT), Bruce
wrote: Quote:
At least we can be sure that all the police granted this free travel privilege will have declared it ti HM Revenue and Customs and will be paying income tax and national insurance on the vakue of the benefit in kind. It's not a benefit in kind to the officers, quite the opposite. They are contributing towards their travel by providing a service during the journey. Even if it were, there is also the question of who is providing the arrangement. If it is not under the control of the police authority, it is doubtful it could be taken to be an employee benefit anyway. Do pay attention. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:01:21 +0100, Mr G wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:51:08 -0700 (PDT), Bruce wrote: Quote:
At least we can be sure that all the police granted this free travel privilege will have declared it ti HM Revenue and Customs and will be paying income tax and national insurance on the vakue of the benefit in kind. It's not a benefit in kind to the officers, quite the opposite. They are contributing towards their travel by providing a service during the journey. I ran that past my cousin, who is an HM Inspector of Taxes, just to get a reaction. He told me he hadn't laughed so much in years. ;-) So thank you from me, and from him, for making us laugh. You are of course as wrong as can be. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 13 Oct, 16:43, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
MatSav matthew | dot | savage | at | dsl | dot | pipex | dot | com wrote "Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message , Bill Borland wrote: black-and-white chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant that That was abolished no later than about 1965. As I understand it, a police constable is never "off duty" - Not so. There were some hilarious cases where police were refused service in off-licenses and supermarkets due to a Victorian statute that referred to constables on duty frequenting licensed premises. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3357707.stm A hungry policeman was banned by shop staff from buying a sausage roll - under a law forbidding sale of refreshments for officers on duty. == *In the past, removing the armband worked. More recently a radio conversation with a superior officer to get a order placing them off-duty but a chief constable was snookered because she had no superior officer. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/3569725.stm checkout staff at Tesco in Northallerton relented when Ms Cannings took off her hat and epaulettes and said she was no longer on duty. although they may not be getting *paid* for their services, they *always* carry their Warrant when in public. Unless it puts them at personal risk of harm, they are *required* to intervene in any situation that needs the presence of police,. I have been told that the Warrant constitutes "uniform" - so, for example, a constable ordering you to stop your motor vehicle can do so simply by holding his Warrant in your view. Indeed, I've seen it done. May work but have you a legal cite that it is legally binding ? -- Mike D There is no such thing in the UK police service as a superior officer, and traffic may only be stopped by an officer in uniform. The warrant card is a form of identification and carries certain police powers, but if a plain clothes officer showed a warrant card and the driver did not stop, what traffic offence has been committed? None. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 14 Oct, 19:02, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:01:21 +0100, Mr G wrote: On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:51:08 -0700 (PDT), Bruce wrote: Quote:
At least we can be sure that all the police granted this free travel privilege will have declared it ti HM Revenue and Customs and will be paying income tax and national insurance on the vakue of the benefit in kind. It's not a benefit in kind to the officers, quite the opposite. *They are contributing towards their travel by providing a service during the journey. I ran that past my cousin, who is an HM Inspector of Taxes, just to get a reaction. *He told me he hadn't laughed so much in years. *;-) So thank you from me, and from him, for making us laugh. *You are of course as wrong as can be. No he isn't. The Inland Revenue tried to tax it, they lost the case, your cousin needs to bone up on his subject. Family trait? |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:30:02 -0700 (PDT),
" wrote: On 13 Oct, 16:43, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote: MatSav matthew | dot | savage | at | dsl | dot | pipex | dot | com wrote "Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message , Bill Borland wrote: black-and-white chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant that That was abolished no later than about 1965. As I understand it, a police constable is never "off duty" - Not so. There were some hilarious cases where police were refused service in off-licenses and supermarkets due to a Victorian statute that referred to constables on duty frequenting licensed premises. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3357707.stm A hungry policeman was banned by shop staff from buying a sausage roll - under a law forbidding sale of refreshments for officers on duty. == *In the past, removing the armband worked. More recently a radio conversation with a superior officer to get a order placing them off-duty but a chief constable was snookered because she had no superior officer. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/3569725.stm checkout staff at Tesco in Northallerton relented when Ms Cannings took off her hat and epaulettes and said she was no longer on duty. although they may not be getting *paid* for their services, they *always* carry their Warrant when in public. Unless it puts them at personal risk of harm, they are *required* to intervene in any situation that needs the presence of police,. I have been told that the Warrant constitutes "uniform" - so, for example, a constable ordering you to stop your motor vehicle can do so simply by holding his Warrant in your view. Indeed, I've seen it done. May work but have you a legal cite that it is legally binding ? -- Mike D There is no such thing in the UK police service There is no such thing as the UK police service. There are a number of constabularies/forces subject to the laws of three different jurisdictions and the permitted policies of each chief police officer. as a superior officer, and traffic may only be stopped by an officer in uniform. The warrant card is a form of identification and carries certain police powers, but if a plain clothes officer showed a warrant card and the driver did not stop, what traffic offence has been committed? None. |
Cops caught in free first class rail rap.
On 15 Oct, 01:56, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
wrote On 13 Oct, 16:43, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote: off-duty but a chief constable was snookered because she had no superior officer. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/3569725.stm checkout staff at Tesco in Northallerton relented when Ms Cannings took off her hat and epaulettes and said she was no longer on duty. . There is no such thing in the UK police service as a superior officer, {...} The law refered to is S 178 Licensing Act 1964 ... except by authority of a superior officer of that constable. == There are things a police "superior officer" can't order, but "go and get a bite to eat" isn't one of them. -- Mike D The Police have senior officers, not superior officers. It is a standard convention that every police officer starts at the same rank, unlike for example the armed services. it's one of the first things taught at basic training. The rank structure,the badges of rank and that nobody in the police service is superior to anybody else, they may be senior in rank or experience, never superior. That is why a suitably qualified PC can be in effective command of a situation where the superintendent stood next to him does not have the requisite training or experience but is on hand to take over when practicable. |
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