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Heathrow T4 to close
Hi all,
I heard a rumour (yeah, I know..) that Heathrow T4 tube will close before the end of the year, as work then begins on T5. Is this true? Anyone know anymore on this or have i been misinformed? Geoff. |
Heathrow T4 to close
I heard a rumour (yeah, I know..) that Heathrow T4 tube will close before
the end of the year, as work then begins on T5. Is this true? Anyone know anymore on this or have i been misinformed? In case you hadn't notice, they started building T5 a long while back. It's nonsense. G |
Heathrow T4 to close
I heard a rumour (yeah, I know..) that Heathrow T4 tube will close
before the end of the year, as work then begins on T5. Is this true? Anyone know anymore on this or have i been misinformed? It may or may not be true but it isn't completely ridiculous either. I believe closure was proposed for April this year but that it then slipped to October/November and must presumably have slipped again. I would have thought that if there was a firm date it would be splatted on the TfL site somewhere but it doesn't seem to be, but then the TfL site does like to hide information so you never know. It would be the T5 tube extension not T5 itself, of course, as construction on T5 has been going on for ages. |
Heathrow T4 to close
I did indeed mean the T5 tube extension and not T5 itself!
Just been all through the TFL/tube website and I can't find any reference about it, so if it IS there, then it is hidden well - yup! "Graham J" wrote in message ... I heard a rumour (yeah, I know..) that Heathrow T4 tube will close before the end of the year, as work then begins on T5. Is this true? Anyone know anymore on this or have i been misinformed? It may or may not be true but it isn't completely ridiculous either. I believe closure was proposed for April this year but that it then slipped to October/November and must presumably have slipped again. I would have thought that if there was a firm date it would be splatted on the TfL site somewhere but it doesn't seem to be, but then the TfL site does like to hide information so you never know. It would be the T5 tube extension not T5 itself, of course, as construction on T5 has been going on for ages. |
Heathrow T4 to close
Well I just had a 'lightbulb' moment, and though I'd ring LU to find out.
Rang up their specific customer number Piccadilly Line .. asked when T4 was going to close. The chap politely told me that it had to close for construction work that was abot to take place on the T5 station. "I know that! but WHEN is T4 going to close?" "Ah.." he says .. "I'll go and find out", put me on hold for 17 minutes and then the phone went dead. Ah well... |
Heathrow T4 to close
Gerard McGovern wrote:
In case you hadn't notice, they started building T5 a long while back. It's nonsense. No it isn't - there's going to be a closure for creating the tube branch to T5. |
Heathrow T4 to close
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:54:58 -0000, "Geoff Marshall"
wrote: Well I just had a 'lightbulb' moment, and though I'd ring LU to find out. Rang up their specific customer number Piccadilly Line .. asked when T4 was going to close. The chap politely told me that it had to close for construction work that was abot to take place on the T5 station. "I know that! but WHEN is T4 going to close?" "Ah.." he says .. "I'll go and find out", put me on hold for 17 minutes and then the phone went dead. Ah well... Although actual dates are not mentioned, a quick search on the tube website came up with this http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...es/0111/20.asp |
Heathrow T4 to close
"Geoff Marshall" wrote in message ...
Well I just had a 'lightbulb' moment, and though I'd ring LU to find out. Rang up their specific customer number Piccadilly Line .. asked when T4 was going to close. The chap politely told me that it had to close for construction work that was abot to take place on the T5 station. "I know that! but WHEN is T4 going to close?" "Ah.." he says .. "I'll go and find out", put me on hold for 17 minutes and then the phone went dead. Ah well... Don't you get compensation for that, you do if your tube train doesn't come in 15 minutes :D Are they still persuing with the idea that half the trains will go to T5 and half will go as usual? I know there's a valid reason for this (different T5 location than planned so now they can't build a feasible loop I believe), however there's gonna be a load of lost passengers along the branch when the time comes. |
Heathrow T4 to close
In case you hadn't notice, they started building T5 a long while back.
It's nonsense. No it isn't - there's going to be a closure for creating the tube branch to T5. Ah, I didn't see the word 'tube' after T4! Apologies. G |
Heathrow T4 to close
I know that the whole POINT of their being such a long distance with the
'loop' between 4 and 1,2,3 at the moment is that it was done deliberately with T5 expansion in mind, so that they wouldn't have to build any 'spur' branches .. But T5 has now been sited not where it was thought to be, hence having to build a spur for T5! So the annoying thing is that all this time, the distance between 4 and 1,2,3 could have been much shorter! According to the PDF on the TFL website (which just says "2003" and is no more specific than that), trains will run as: ... from Acton Town - Hatton Cross - T4 - T5 and in reverse. and: ... from Acton Town - Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse. So the 'loop' between T4 and T123 becomes redundant? And that if you want to go via tube between 123 and 4, you'llnow have to go via Hatton Cross instead! Geoff. Are they still persuing with the idea that half the trains will go to T5 and half will go as usual? I know there's a valid reason for this (different T5 location than planned so now they can't build a feasible loop I believe), however there's gonna be a load of lost passengers along the branch when the time comes. |
Heathrow T4 to close
"Geoff Marshall" wrote in message ... I know that the whole POINT of their being such a long distance with the 'loop' between 4 and 1,2,3 at the moment is that it was done deliberately with T5 expansion in mind, so that they wouldn't have to build any 'spur' branches .. But T5 has now been sited not where it was thought to be, hence having to build a spur for T5! So the annoying thing is that all this time, the distance between 4 and 1,2,3 could have been much shorter! According to the PDF on the TFL website (which just says "2003" and is no more specific than that), trains will run as: .. from Acton Town - Hatton Cross - T4 - T5 and in reverse. and: .. from Acton Town - Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse. So the 'loop' between T4 and T123 becomes redundant? And that if you want to go via tube between 123 and 4, you'llnow have to go via Hatton Cross instead! It's been a while since I used the Picadilly Line from Heathrow, but IIRC you already have to go via Hatton Cross to get from T123 to T4. |
Heathrow T4 to close
In article , Bondee wrote:
It's been a while since I used the Picadilly Line from Heathrow, but IIRC you already have to go via Hatton Cross to get from T123 to T4. That's correct. You can go the other way directly, though. Niklas -- "I didn't get a toy train like the other kids. I got a toy subway instead. You couldn't see anything, but every now and then you'd hear this rumbling noise go by." -- Steven Wright |
Heathrow T4 to close
.. from Acton Town - Hatton Cross - T4 - T5 and in reverse. and:
.. from Acton Town - Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse. So the 'loop' between T4 and T123 becomes redundant? I thought it was going to be... Hatton Cross - T4 - T123 - Hatton Cross (as it is now) Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse ....as the T5 extension was a spur from T123 with no access direct from the T4 loop, or did they completely change the plan? And that if you want to go via tube between 123 and 4, you'llnow have to go via Hatton Cross instead! You already do if you want to use the tube. |
Heathrow T4 to close
"Clive R Robertson" wrote in message
... You can also use the Heathrow Express (for free) Yes or (if you've *really* got time to spare) the inter-terminal bus. Only if in possession of an air ticket. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Heathrow T4 to close
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
... Isn't the loop all single track No, it's double from T123 to Hatton Cross. This was operated as a normal double track railway before T4 was built, and AFAIK is still operated as such every night after T4 closes. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Heathrow T4 to close
"Geoff Marshall" wrote in message
... Just been sent this: In answer to your enquiry, Terminal 4 station is expected to be closed from January 2005 for around 20 months, to allow construction of a junction in the area to extend the Piccadilly Line to Terminal 5. 20 months to construct a pair of step-plate junctions? Bloody hell, I don't remember the Jubilee south of Green Park being shut for that long... Come to think of it, aren't both step plate junctions to be constructed east of the point where the loop splits into the two tracks that lead into the two platforms of T123? Therefore they should be able to close the southern T123 platform while the facing junction is constructed, and close the northern T123 platform while the trailing junction is constructed. The only time the loop would need to be closed would be when when the new westbound line was tunnelled under the loop... that should be, what, a weekend's work? Admittedly there would be performance implications from only having one platform at T123 for some months, but it has to be preferable to closing T4 station. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Heathrow T4 to close
"Geoff Marshall" wrote in message ...
According to the PDF on the TFL website (which just says "2003" and is no more specific than that), trains will run as: .. from Acton Town - Hatton Cross - T4 - T5 and in reverse. and: .. from Acton Town - Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse. So the 'loop' between T4 and T123 becomes redundant? And that if you want to go via tube between 123 and 4, you'llnow have to go via Hatton Cross instead! Is there a map somewhere showing the new track layout? I've tried googling for it and found loads of info but no map. B2003 |
Heathrow T4 to close
All there seems to be is that PDF on the tfl site as mentioned a coupld of posts back .. indeed.. lack of information on this one! most annoying... Is there a map somewhere showing the new track layout? I've tried googling for it and found loads of info but no map. B2003 |
Heathrow T4 to close
Boltar wrote:
Is there a map somewhere showing the new track layout? I've tried googling for it and found loads of info but no map. http://www.baa.co.uk/images/t5/t5map.gif -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Heathrow T4 to close
Just been sent this:
Thank you for your recent enquiry on the Piccadilly Line service to Heathrow Airport, which has been passed to me. In answer to your enquiry, Terminal 4 station is expected to be closed from January 2005 for around 20 months, to allow construction of a junction in the area to extend the Piccadilly Line to Terminal 5. Customers for Terminal 4 will be able to use a bus replacement service which will be provided, running between Hatton Cross Station and Terminal 4. Terminal 1,2,3 station will continue to operate Piccadilly Line services throughout this closure period. I hope that this answers your query. |
Heathrow T4 to close
"Graham J" wrote in message ... .. from Acton Town - Hatton Cross - T4 - T5 and in reverse. and: .. from Acton Town - Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse. So the 'loop' between T4 and T123 becomes redundant? I thought it was going to be... Hatton Cross - T4 - T123 - Hatton Cross (as it is now) Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse Isn't the loop all single track - therefore are they building a new tunnel & track from Hatton Cross to T123? -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 |
Heathrow T4 to close
John Rowland wrote:
"Geoff Marshall" wrote in message ... Just been sent this: In answer to your enquiry, Terminal 4 station is expected to be closed from January 2005 for around 20 months, to allow construction of a junction in the area to extend the Piccadilly Line to Terminal 5. 20 months to construct a pair of step-plate junctions? Bloody hell, I don't remember the Jubilee south of Green Park being shut for that long... Come to think of it, aren't both step plate junctions to be constructed east of the point where the loop splits into the two tracks that lead into the two platforms of T123? Therefore they should be able to close the southern T123 platform while the facing junction is constructed, and close the northern T123 platform while the trailing junction is constructed. The only time the loop would need to be closed would be when when the new westbound line was tunnelled under the loop... that should be, what, a weekend's work? Admittedly there would be performance implications from only having one platform at T123 for some months, but it has to be preferable to closing T4 station. Yes, I agree. It smacks of a lack of imagination: just provide the usual temporary (for 20 months!) bus service, ignoring the fact that passengers will have to drag their luggage up the 33 steps from Hatton Cross platforms to the surface. From that point of view, it would be better to run the bus service from T123 to T4 using the road tunnel that goes that way, but since it's airside, there would be security issues to address. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Heathrow T4 to close
In message , Geoff Marshall
writes In answer to your enquiry, Terminal 4 station is expected to be closed from January 2005 for around 20 months, to allow construction of a junction in the area to extend the Piccadilly Line to Terminal 5. Is the junction being built by one man and a dog (and only the man has a shovel)?? Almost two years, to build a junction??? -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T4 to close
Roland Perry wrote in message ...
In message , Geoff Marshall writes In answer to your enquiry, Terminal 4 station is expected to be closed from January 2005 for around 20 months, to allow construction of a junction in the area to extend the Piccadilly Line to Terminal 5. Is the junction being built by one man and a dog (and only the man has a shovel)?? Almost two years, to build a junction??? Why is anyone surprised? This is par for the course with anything to do with london underground (and frankly britain in general these days). There are probably so many legal, contractual and health and safety hoops to jump through its a wonder anything gets done at all sometimes. Anyway , bear in mind this is the same organisation that had to close the central line for months and takes 6 months to get a single escalator rebuilt. B2003 |
Heathrow T4 to close
"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
work? Admittedly there would be performance implications from only having one platform at T123 for some months, but it has to be preferable to closing T4 station. Can trains turns back at Hatton Cross? If not then any incident at T123 will mean trying to get passengers from Hounslow, which probably means trying to herd them on to a 111 or something... Henry |
Heathrow T4 to close
On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 13:47:10 +0000, John Rowland wrote:
"Clive R Robertson" wrote in message ... You can also use the Heathrow Express (for free) Yes or (if you've *really* got time to spare) the inter-terminal bus. Only if in possession of an air ticket. How do they deal with ticketless airlines? |
Heathrow T4 to close
"John Rowland" wrote in message ... "Clive R Robertson" wrote in message ... You can also use the Heathrow Express (for free) Yes or (if you've *really* got time to spare) the inter-terminal bus. Only if in possession of an air ticket. No, all buses in the Heathrow area are free whether you have an air ticket or not. Peter Smyth |
Heathrow T4 to close
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Heathrow T4 to close
CJC wrote:
(Boltar) wrote in message om... "Geoff Marshall" wrote in message ... According to the PDF on the TFL website (which just says "2003" and is no more specific than that), trains will run as: .. from Acton Town - Hatton Cross - T4 - T5 and in reverse. and: .. from Acton Town - Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse. So the 'loop' between T4 and T123 becomes redundant? And that if you want to go via tube between 123 and 4, you'llnow have to go via Hatton Cross instead! Is there a map somewhere showing the new track layout? I've tried googling for it and found loads of info but no map. B2003 Are they going to double the line from HX to T4 then? No. As has been pointed out in this thread at least twice already, the services will actually be ..- Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse, and ..- Hatton Cross - T4 - T123 - HX as at present. I would have thought HX - T4 - T5 - reverse to T123 would be better. Not a good idea to reverse a train on the way to T123, nor to fill it with T5 arrivals before the T123 departures have got off. (Yes, I know this happens at T4 at present, but T5 will be *much* bigger than T4.) -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Heathrow T4 to close
Henry Nebrensky wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in message ... work? Admittedly there would be performance implications from only having one platform at T123 for some months, but it has to be preferable to closing T4 station. Can trains turns back at Hatton Cross? Yes, it was the termination point before Heathrow Central (now T12&3) opened. |
Heathrow T4 to close
In message , Richard J.
writes No. As has been pointed out in this thread at least twice already, the services will actually be ..- Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse, and ..- Hatton Cross - T4 - T123 - HX as at present. And we've been told that roughly 1/3 trains T4123 and 2/3 123T5 The station at T5 will have 3 platforms and cripple sidings. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
Heathrow T4 to close
In message , Steve Fitzgerald
] writes ..- Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse, and ..- Hatton Cross - T4 - T123 - HX as at present. And we've been told that roughly 1/3 trains T4123 and 2/3 123T5 Getting from T5 to T4 seems like the difficult part. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T4 to close
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , Steve Fitzgerald ] writes ..- Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse, and ..- Hatton Cross - T4 - T123 - HX as at present. And we've been told that roughly 1/3 trains T4123 and 2/3 123T5 Getting from T5 to T4 seems like the difficult part. But there may not be much demand for that journey, depending on the future use of T4. According to reports this week*, British Airways will use T5 for all of their flights, and T4 will be occupied by the Skyteam alliance, which consists of Air France, KLM, Delta and Northwest Airlines. * http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/tra...p?story=461304 -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Heathrow T4 to close
In message , Roland Perry
writes In message , Steve Fitzgerald ] writes ..- Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse, and ..- Hatton Cross - T4 - T123 - HX as at present. And we've been told that roughly 1/3 trains T4123 and 2/3 123T5 Getting from T5 to T4 seems like the difficult part. We wont be doing it - either T4 or T5 not both. My error, BTW, should have read T4123 above (as today) -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
Heathrow T4 to close
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in message ...
In message , Roland Perry writes In message , Steve Fitzgerald ] writes ..- Hatton Cross - T123 - T5 and in reverse, and ..- Hatton Cross - T4 - T123 - HX as at present. And we've been told that roughly 1/3 trains T4123 and 2/3 123T5 Getting from T5 to T4 seems like the difficult part. We wont be doing it - either T4 or T5 not both. My error, BTW, should have read T4123 above (as today) I just think having two different services will confuse stupid tourists! What are LU thinking of with HX? No lifts there are there? I would have thought telling people to change to the Heathrow Express at T123 would be better. |
Heathrow T4 to close
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:30:08 +0000 (UTC), "Cast_Iron"
wrote: Can trains turns back at Hatton Cross? Yes, it was the termination point before Heathrow Central (now T12&3) opened. I thought Hatton Cross was only built when HC was built? |
Heathrow T4 to close
K wrote:
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:30:08 +0000 (UTC), "Cast_Iron" wrote: Can trains turns back at Hatton Cross? Yes, it was the termination point before Heathrow Central (now T12&3) opened. I thought Hatton Cross was only built when HC was built? The extension from Hounslow West to Hatton Cross was opened on 19 Jul 1975, more than two years before the further extension to Heathrow Central opened on 16 Dec 1977. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Heathrow T4 to close
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:33:15 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote: The extension from Hounslow West to Hatton Cross was opened on 19 Jul 1975, more than two years before the further extension to Heathrow Central opened on 16 Dec 1977. Ah, didn't realize that, sorry. |
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