Last week, I travelled every day from Kings Cross Thameslink to
Bedford on 'City Fliers' in the morning and returned back to London
with Midland Mainline, on a weekly First Class season.

I noticed that on none of the five occasions I travelled with
Thameslink for over an hour in the am (ok, after the peak) there was
no conductor/RPI on board to check tickets. Is this usual or unusual?
I know Thameslink services are Driver Only Operated but I'd have
thought there would be some sort of revenue protection on board. Then
again, major stations on the City Flier route such as St Albans, Luton
Aiport, Luton and Bedford all have ticket barriers so I guess
fraudsters can be 'caught out' but I found it unusual nonetheless that
I saw no revenue protection staff on board any of my journeys, as I
noticed a few Standard passenger sat in First Class and on board staff
would act as a deterrent. The same has applied in the past to WAGN
services from Kings Cross to Peterborough where I've never noticed an
RPI on board.

"Henry Littleton" wrote in
message om...
Last week, I travelled every day from Kings Cross Thameslink to
Bedford on 'City Fliers' in the morning and returned back to London
with Midland Mainline, on a weekly First Class season.

I noticed that on none of the five occasions I travelled with
Thameslink for over an hour in the am (ok, after the peak) there was
no conductor/RPI on board to check tickets. Is this usual or unusual?
I know Thameslink services are Driver Only Operated but I'd have
thought there would be some sort of revenue protection on board. Then
again, major stations on the City Flier route such as St Albans, Luton
Aiport, Luton and Bedford all have ticket barriers so I guess
fraudsters can be 'caught out' but I found it unusual nonetheless that
I saw no revenue protection staff on board any of my journeys, as I
noticed a few Standard passenger sat in First Class and on board staff
would act as a deterrent. The same has applied in the past to WAGN
services from Kings Cross to Peterborough where I've never noticed an
RPI on board.


I have only ever had my ticket checked onboard once in 8 years!!!!!

"Henry Littleton" wrote in
message om...
Last week, I travelled every day from Kings Cross Thameslink to
Bedford on 'City Fliers' in the morning and returned back to London
with Midland Mainline, on a weekly First Class season.

I noticed that on none of the five occasions I travelled with
Thameslink for over an hour in the am (ok, after the peak) there was
no conductor/RPI on board to check tickets. Is this usual or unusual?
I know Thameslink services are Driver Only Operated but I'd have
thought there would be some sort of revenue protection on board. Then
again, major stations on the City Flier route such as St Albans, Luton
Aiport, Luton and Bedford all have ticket barriers so I guess
fraudsters can be 'caught out' but I found it unusual nonetheless that
I saw no revenue protection staff on board any of my journeys, as I
noticed a few Standard passenger sat in First Class and on board staff
would act as a deterrent. The same has applied in the past to WAGN
services from Kings Cross to Peterborough where I've never noticed an
RPI on board.

How did you know they were standard ticket holders? Did you check their
tickets?

Then
again, major stations on the City Flier route such as St Albans, Luton
Aiport, Luton and Bedford all have ticket barriers so I guess
fraudsters can be 'caught out'

Of course barriers don't stop the determined fare evader. I've seen two
scale the fence at St Albans with a group of ticket inspectors standing
nearby.

but I found it unusual nonetheless that
I saw no revenue protection staff on board any of my journeys, as I
noticed a few Standard passenger sat in First Class and on board staff
would act as a deterrent.


Travelling daily between Harpenden (no barriers) and the City I guess we
have ticket inspections on less than 1 in 40 journeys. Not always very
effective either. Sometimes see them minutely checking the tickets of seated
passengers, waiting patiently for the inspection, whilst ignoring the
"yuffs" who suddenly decide they would rather be in another carriage, and
leg it at the next station. Once saw a well dressed woman who was seemingly
in such a deep sleep that loud requests for her ticket couldn't wake her.
Once the inspectors had gone she woke up soon enough at her stop. I suppose
the inspectors didn't give her a gentle shake for fear of being accused of
assault. Are they under instructions not to touch passengers, or detain
people who don't want to hang around to answer question?

Jon McD

"Steve Naïve" wrote in message
...
"Jon McD" wrote in
:

Once saw a well
dressed woman who was seemingly in such a deep sleep that loud
requests for her ticket couldn't wake her. Once the inspectors had
gone she woke up soon enough at her stop. I suppose the inspectors
didn't give her a gentle shake for fear of being accused of assault.
Are they under instructions not to touch passengers

I hope so - AFAIAA any touching would possibly be an assault. Possibly
(probably?) only Transport (or other) Police would be allowed to do this.

or detain people
who don't want to hang around to answer question?

Same again, I think. Although this may be covered under railway bye-laws
(although I'm not au fait with these).

I wouldn't be surprised if ticket inspectors are not allowed touch or detain
passengers they suspect of not having tickets. Perhaps they can radio ahead
to request the police to be at the next station, but unless the next stop is
some time away the chances of police getting there in time must be quite
slim. It may be that tactics such as moving down the train to avoid
inspections, pretending to be asleep, pretending not to speak English or
just not replying to questions and then leaving the train at the next stop
are foolproof ways of avoiding fares and fines.

Jon McD

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 14:37:19 +0000, Huge wrote:
Hmmm. I've seen a "Revenue Protection Inspector" rugby tackle a scrote
at Bedford who hurdled the ticket barriers. Impressive athleticism on both
sides....

What does the law say about having to go through the machines? If I
hurdle them, or somehow get past them without opening them, but I have a
legal ticket, am I in trouble?

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 16:15:52 +0000, Paul Weaver
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 14:37:19 +0000, Huge wrote:
Hmmm. I've seen a "Revenue Protection Inspector" rugby tackle a scrote
at Bedford who hurdled the ticket barriers. Impressive athleticism on both
sides....

What does the law say about having to go through the machines? If I
hurdle them, or somehow get past them without opening them, but I have a
legal ticket, am I in trouble?

I guess you could be... my thinking is that you have to provide a
valid ticket when asked and that you could say that going through a
machine is being "asked".

"Paul Weaver" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 14:37:19 +0000, Huge wrote:
Hmmm. I've seen a "Revenue Protection Inspector" rugby tackle a scrote
at Bedford who hurdled the ticket barriers. Impressive athleticism on
both
sides....

What does the law say about having to go through the machines? If I
hurdle them, or somehow get past them without opening them, but I have a
legal ticket, am I in trouble?

Yes, in theory at least. From the railway byelaws

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ys_504364.hcsp

9.2. Where the entrance to or exit from any platform or station is via an
automatic ticket barrier no person shall enter or leave the station, except
with permission from an authorised person, without passing through the
barrier in the correct manner.

Peter Smyth

In article ,
(Jon McD) wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised if ticket inspectors are not allowed touch or
detain passengers they suspect of not having tickets. Perhaps they can
radio ahead to request the police to be at the next station, but unless
the next stop is some time away the chances of police getting there in
time must be quite slim. It may be that tactics such as moving down the
train to avoid inspections, pretending to be asleep, pretending not to
speak English or just not replying to questions and then leaving the
train at the next stop are foolproof ways of avoiding fares and fines.

I'm sure that's not far wrong.

We had a yoof who didn't respond to increasingly loud attempts by a WAGN
ticket inspector to wake him up on the 10:15 Cruiser from Cambridge to
King's Cross the other day. He was so deeply asleep (or successful at
giving that impression) that the inspector arranged to stop the train at
Stevenage and call an ambulance for fear that he was unconscious. Luckily
WAGN inspectors have long carried mobile phones.

The ambulance crew eventually revived the guy. He was handed over the
transport police when he claimed to have no ticket or money. Meanwhile the
rest of the train's passengers were tipped out into the 10:31 ex-Cambridge
and arrived half an hour late at the Cross having stood all the way from
Stevenage.

I hope the courts were not lenient with him.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Once upon a time -- around about 11/8/03 12:41 --
possibly wrote:

What's the significance of the blue lights in the DLR tunnels?
They, if I recollect, serve the same purpose as in the JLE tunnels. They
mark where fire and rescue people may enter tunnels in an emergency.

-- E

--
Canada Post doesn't really charge 32 cents for a stamp. It's 2 cents for
postage and 30 cents for storage. -- Gerald Regan