Yesterday I had to get the 25 for a joyful journey and I noticed that the
official capacity listed at the front of the bus is 49 sitting, 149 total
(or 142 with a wheelchair). But that wasn't remotely the capacity level beig
followed by the bus driver when not stopping at a number of stops that had a
handful, no more, waiting at them. By my reckoning (from the front) there
were about 30-40 people standing. Even if it was 50 that's still 1/3 of the
official capacity (which would never have all fitted in) not being used.

Is this just a case of poorly trained bus drivers or have the bendies been
given an absurdly high official capacity that can never be achieved? Or is
there some other reason?

"Tim Roll-Pickering" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Yesterday I had to get the 25 for a joyful journey and I noticed that
the official capacity listed at the front of the bus is 49 sitting, 149
total (or 142 with a wheelchair). But that wasn't remotely the capacity
level beig followed by the bus driver when not stopping at a number of
stops that had a handful, no more, waiting at them. By my reckoning
(from the front) there were about 30-40 people standing. Even if it was
50 that's still 1/3 of the official capacity (which would never have all
fitted in) not being used.

Is this just a case of poorly trained bus drivers or have the bendies
been given an absurdly high official capacity that can never be
achieved?

It's probably weight-based, and calculated by dividing the payload by a
nominal average weight. No thought given as to the physical comfort (or
lack thereof) of the occupants playing Sardines.

On Oct 19, 12:29*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
Yesterday I had to get the 25 for a joyful journey and I noticed that the
official capacity listed at the front of the bus is 49 sitting, 149 total
(or 142 with a wheelchair). But that wasn't remotely the capacity level beig
followed by the bus driver when not stopping at a number of stops that had a
handful, no more, waiting at them. By my reckoning (from the front) there
were about 30-40 people standing. Even if it was 50 that's still 1/3 of the
official capacity (which would never have all fitted in) not being used.

Is this just a case of poorly trained bus drivers or have the bendies been
given an absurdly high official capacity that can never be achieved? Or is
there some other reason?

It's not possible for us to know the driver's motives. I have had half
empty double deck buses drive past stops with people waiting at them
and I have seen drivers fail to appreciate that while the lower deck
may be rammed the upper deck has seats. It's no fun when you're the
poor soul trying to get on the bus and you can see there is space.
Your driver might just have been having a bad day - who knows?

I don't know if the bendies have been tested to 149 but the stated
capacity isn't just pulled from the sky. As all buses have stated
capacities I would guess they are all established in a similar manner.
I have travelled on some extremely packed bendy buses (route 29, route
521) but whether there were 149 people on board I cannot say. Ditto
for double deckers and I'd guess they were well over their 80 person
capacity given people were stuffed to the windscreen, standing on the
stairs and on the upper deck (all 3 being a breach of the rules but it
happens). It might the case that the maximum capacity on bendies is
not achieved because people "self limit" the capacity by not moving
down the aisles, preferring to remain close to the doors. The same
behaviour is evident on tube trains in busy conditions and I dare say
also on London Overground. I recognise the driver of a train is much
less likely to have any view as to what conditions are like in the
carriages but given dwell times will be extended at station stops
they'll have an impression as to how busy their train is. Short of
closing doors on people to control the load they have less control
than bus drivers - they can't decide to swan through a station without
stopping for example.

Paul Corfield

On 19 Oct, 13:01, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Oct 19, 12:29*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-

wrote:
Yesterday I had to get the 25 for a joyful journey and I noticed that the
official capacity listed at the front of the bus is 49 sitting, 149 total
(or 142 with a wheelchair). But that wasn't remotely the capacity level beig
followed by the bus driver when not stopping at a number of stops that had a
handful, no more, waiting at them. By my reckoning (from the front) there
were about 30-40 people standing. Even if it was 50 that's still 1/3 of the
official capacity (which would never have all fitted in) not being used..

Is this just a case of poorly trained bus drivers or have the bendies been
given an absurdly high official capacity that can never be achieved? Or is
there some other reason?

It's not possible for us to know the driver's motives. I have had half
empty double deck buses drive past stops with people waiting at them
and I have seen drivers fail to appreciate that while the lower deck
may be rammed the upper deck has seats. It's no fun when you're the
poor soul trying to get on the bus and you can see there is space.
Your driver might just have been having a bad day - who knows?

I don't know if the bendies have been tested to 149 but the stated
capacity isn't just pulled from the sky. As all buses have stated
capacities I would guess they are all established in a similar manner.
I have travelled on some extremely packed bendy buses (route 29, route
521) but whether there were 149 people on board I cannot say. Ditto
for double deckers and I'd guess they were well over their 80 person
capacity given people were stuffed to the windscreen, standing on the
stairs and on the upper deck (all 3 being a breach of the rules but it
happens). It might the case that the maximum capacity on bendies is
not achieved because people "self limit" the capacity by not moving
down the aisles, preferring to remain close to the doors. The same
behaviour is evident on tube trains in busy conditions and I dare say
also on London Overground. I recognise the driver of a train is much
less likely to have any view as to what conditions are like in the
carriages but given dwell times will be extended at station stops
they'll have an impression as to how busy their train is. *Short of
closing doors on people to control the load they have less control
than bus drivers - they can't decide to swan through a station without
stopping for example.

Paul Corfield

The claimed superior capacity of a bendy over a double decker has
always been hard to believe though. One gets the impression that it's
done by dividing the volume of the bus by the average volume of a
person, regardless of whether the space can actually be used (and the
same on the 378s, Jubilee trains etc).

MIG wrote:

The claimed superior capacity of a bendy over a double decker has
always been hard to believe though. One gets the impression that it's
done by dividing the volume of the bus by the average volume of a
person, regardless of whether the space can actually be used (and the
same on the 378s, Jubilee trains etc).

When they call for volunteers to test bus capacity, they probably take care
to stand outside a students union bar at kicking out time. Trial runs are
probably carried out first using either an original mini or a GPO telephone
box...

Paul S

In article ,
says...
MIG wrote:

The claimed superior capacity of a bendy over a double decker has
always been hard to believe though. One gets the impression that it's
done by dividing the volume of the bus by the average volume of a
person, regardless of whether the space can actually be used (and the
same on the 378s, Jubilee trains etc).

When they call for volunteers to test bus capacity, they probably take care
to stand outside a students union bar at kicking out time. Trial runs are
probably carried out first using either an original mini or a GPO telephone
box...

Paul S





First experience ever yesterday of the concept of 'free' bendybuses.

Because the Central Line was non-up had to use an 86 destined for
Romford.

The number of people who waited for the 25 amazed me, the 86 would have
taken them to wherever they were going.

Maybe Boris has a point.

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 05:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
MIG wrote:
The claimed superior capacity of a bendy over a double decker has
always been hard to believe though. One gets the impression that it's

I find it quite easy to believe. The bendy bus doesn't have any stairs using
up a significant percentage of the floor space. Plus standing on the top deck
of a double decker is unpleasent at the best of times with the nausea inducing
swaying, heat, people squeezing past to and fro at every stop. Which is
why most standees stick to the lower deck I should imagine.

B2003

up a significant percentage of the floor space. Plus standing on the top deck
of a double decker is unpleasent at the best of times with the nausea inducing
swaying, heat, people squeezing past to and fro at every stop. Which is
why most standees stick to the lower deck I should imagine.

It's also because you're not permitted to stand on the upper deck.
Though some (esp night) bus drivers don't enforce it, I've waited for
several minutes before now while the driver sits at a stop pressing
the "Please do not stand on the upper deck or stairs" button until the
passengers take the hint

On Oct 19, 12:29*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
Yesterday I had to get the 25 for a joyful journey and I noticed that the
official capacity listed at the front of the bus is 49 sitting, 149 total
(or 142 with a wheelchair). But that wasn't remotely the capacity level beig
followed by the bus driver when not stopping at a number of stops that had a
handful, no more, waiting at them. By my reckoning (from the front) there
were about 30-40 people standing. Even if it was 50 that's still 1/3 of the
official capacity (which would never have all fitted in) not being used.

Is this just a case of poorly trained bus drivers or have the bendies been
given an absurdly high official capacity that can never be achieved? Or is
there some other reason?

I think an N29 northbound through Camden at 2am on a weekend is a good
yardstick of how many people you can fit on a bendy.

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Yesterday I had to get the 25 for a joyful journey and I noticed that the
official capacity listed at the front of the bus is 49 sitting, 149 total
(or 142 with a wheelchair). But that wasn't remotely the capacity level beig
followed by the bus driver when not stopping at a number of stops that had a
handful, no more, waiting at them. By my reckoning (from the front) there
were about 30-40 people standing. Even if it was 50 that's still 1/3 of the
official capacity (which would never have all fitted in) not being used.

Is this just a case of poorly trained bus drivers or have the bendies been
given an absurdly high official capacity that can never be achieved? Or is
there some other reason?



Usable capacities used by TfL for modelling the debendifications are 85
(double decker), 70 (single decker) and 120 (bendy). The placarded
capacities are similarly excessive for the new 521/507 non-bendies,
which from me counting people onto them leave Waterloo with about 60 on
board, despite having a placarded capacity somewhat higher. It's
assumed the maximum feasible load is somewhat lower, not least because
with a bus along every couple of minutes the choice of the person at the
front of the queue is a minute or two waiting followed by a seat, or
getting on now and standing.

If memory serves the first bendy routes tried using 149 as the modelling
figure but were rapidly proved not to work with this, and went down to
100. 120 is presumably an enhancement of that in the light of seven
years experience.

Tom