Oyster on target?
 

The latest TfL board papers are still listing January 2010 as the date
for extension of PAYG to National Rail.

There are only 15 stations left to install validators at.
Apparantly one issue is switching off ITSO acceptance at the Waterloo
gateline.

See page 8 of http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ort-Oct-09.pdf

The TfL Business plan also mentions that acceptance of PAYG on river
services will start in November, and that ITSO, Visa Wave, and
Mastercard Paypass cards will be accepted by 2011

See page 81 http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...11-2017-18.pdf

Oyster on target?
 

In message
, at
08:24:53 on Thu, 22 Oct 2009, Matthew Dickinson
remarked:

There are only 15 stations left to install validators at.

Up with which, will we put?
--
Roland Perry

Oyster on target?
 

On Oct 22, 4:24*pm, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
The latest TfL board papers are still listing January 2010 as the date
for extension of PAYG to National Rail.

There are only 15 stations left to install validators at.
Apparantly one issue is switching off ITSO acceptance at the Waterloo
gateline.

See page 8 ofhttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Item04-Commissioners...

The TfL Business plan also mentions that acceptance of PAYG on river
services will start in November, and that ITSO, Visa Wave, and
Mastercard Paypass cards will be accepted by 2011

See page 81http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Item06-TfL-Business-...

Why do they have to switch off ITSO at Waterloo? If they cannot make
the gates decide which to use if the card hosts both, then make sure
that the ITSO Spec gets revised to help them (and/or get some really
good techies on the job of designing the gate/card dialogue). Aaagh!
ITSO (sorry, DfT it was, 'cos they now control ITSO Ltd's Board [1])
decided at end September to freeze the ITSO Spec for 2 years (although
currently approved updates will be included in a minor update soon,
and after that the freeze kicks in).

[1] http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/c...reviewitso.pdf

Oyster on target?
 

On 22 Oct, 16:24, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
The latest TfL board papers are still listing January 2010 as the date
for extension of PAYG to National Rail.

There are only 15 stations left to install validators at.
Apparantly one issue is switching off ITSO acceptance at the Waterloo
gateline.

See page 8 ofhttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Item04-Commissioners...

The TfL Business plan also mentions that acceptance of PAYG on river
services will start in November, and that ITSO, Visa Wave, and
Mastercard Paypass cards will be accepted by 2011

See page 81http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Item06-TfL-Business-...


In the meantime, Oyster topup facilities have been withdrawn from New
Cross Gate. Very odd.

Oyster on target?
 

Paul Corfield wrote on 22 October 2009 19:00:58 ...
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:04:37 -0700 (PDT), ticketyboo
wrote:


Why do they have to switch off ITSO at Waterloo? If they cannot make
the gates decide which to use if the card hosts both, then make sure
that the ITSO Spec gets revised to help them (and/or get some really
good techies on the job of designing the gate/card dialogue). Aaagh!
ITSO (sorry, DfT it was, 'cos they now control ITSO Ltd's Board [1])
decided at end September to freeze the ITSO Spec for 2 years (although
currently approved updates will be included in a minor update soon,
and after that the freeze kicks in).

[1] http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/c...reviewitso.pdf

I thought the issue of demonstrating that Oyster and ITSO spec cards
could be read by one reader was resolved a long time ago when there was
a borough trial (Newham I think) where council issued cards with ITSO
based entitlements on them were also used on a number of local bus
routes. I may have it wrong but I'm sure there was a demonstration
project.

Such tests have also been run in connection with the 2010 Freedom pass
reissue. The new Freedom Passes will be Desfire cards incorporating
both Oyster and ITSO. London Councils reported in June 2009 that "The
Desfire cards have now had their full testing completed and are proven
to work with both applications loaded on the chipset. The testing was
completed and verified by both ITSO services Ltd and TfL. TfL has
undertaken to deliver all 1.3 million cards by 31 December 2009."

Last month, London Councils said "TfL have assured us that their
programme to update the Oyster estate (card gates and readers) is
progressing so that they can all read our new Desfire cards [and] will
be completed by the end of November."

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Oyster on target?
 

On 22 Oct, 19:00, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:04:37 -0700 (PDT), ticketyboo

wrote:
Why do they have to switch off ITSO at Waterloo? If they cannot make
the gates decide which to use if the card hosts both, then make sure
that the ITSO Spec gets revised to help them (and/or get some really
good techies on the job of designing the gate/card dialogue). Aaagh!
ITSO (sorry, DfT it was, 'cos they now control ITSO Ltd's Board [1])
decided at end September to freeze the ITSO Spec for 2 years (although
currently approved updates will be included in a minor update soon,
and after that the freeze kicks in).

[1]http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/commerciareviewitso.pdf

I thought the issue of demonstrating that Oyster and ITSO spec cards
could be read by one reader was resolved a long time ago when there was
a borough trial (Newham I think) where council issued cards with ITSO
based entitlements on them were also used on a number of local bus
routes. *I may have it wrong but I'm sure there was a demonstration
project.


The trial was in Brentford using specially issued Connexions cards.
The conclusion at the time seems to have been that ITSO processing was
quite a bit slower.

See pages 81 to 92 of http://dft.gov.uk/pgr/scienceresearc...perability.pdf

Oyster on target?
 

On Oct 23, 2:28*am, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

The trial was in Brentford using specially issued Connexions cards.
The conclusion at the time seems to have been that ITSO processing was
quite a bit slower.

See pages 81 to 92 ofhttp://dft.gov.uk/pgr/scienceresearch/otherresearch/itsooysterinterop...

That is the document that demonstrated a rather unprofessional
project. Made some people cringe (see 3.3 and 3.4 on page 4). There
has been a lot of water under the bridge since then - and PA and MVA
are doing rather less work for DfT now.

Oyster on target?
 

On Oct 22, 3:24*pm, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

The TfL Business plan also mentions that acceptance of PAYG on river
services will start in November, and that ITSO, Visa Wave, and
Mastercard Paypass cards will be accepted by 2011

See page 81http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Item06-TfL-Business-...

It doesn't mention Visa and MasterCard specifically, but I think
you're probably right in assuming that's what they mean.

I wonder that'll do for the Barclaycard OnePulse card (Oyster and Visa
PayWave on the one bit of plastic) - I certainly wouldn't like to pay
for journeys twice...

As an aside, I tried to use my OnePulse card in various locations in
New York and Toronto - including an NYC cab, and a Subway turnstile
kitted out for the contactless payment trial (marketed as for Citi
MasterCard PayWave cardholders only - but the reader had the generic
contactless payments logo on it). On every attempt, my card wasn't
even recognised - not even with a 'card not accepted' beep. I've had
no trouble using it in the UK. I wonder if the north American readers
are different?

Oyster on target?
 

In message
, at
05:56:21 on Tue, 27 Oct 2009, martin
remarked:
On every attempt, my card wasn't even recognised - not even with a
'card not accepted' beep. I've had no trouble using it in the UK. I
wonder if the north American readers are different?

They are either different, or every one you encountered was broken.
Which is more likely?
--
Roland Perry

Oyster on target?
 

On Oct 27, 1:18*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
05:56:21 on Tue, 27 Oct 2009, martin
remarked:

On every attempt, my card wasn't even recognised - not even with a
'card not accepted' beep. I've had no trouble using it in the UK. I
wonder if the north American readers are different?

They are either different, or every one you encountered was broken.
Which is more likely?
--
Roland Perry

There have been a few reports of North American readers being disabled
because the cabbies and shops didn't want to accept contactless
payments. But also the USA had a different spec at first, and the
readers may not have been updated to the international spec.

Oyster on target?
 

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 05:56:21 -0700 (PDT), martin
wrote:

I wonder that'll do for the Barclaycard OnePulse card (Oyster and Visa
PayWave on the one bit of plastic) - I certainly wouldn't like to pay
for journeys twice...

Or worse to lose your cap because the wrong card picked up.

I suspect this move will be very, very unpopular as people will have
to take cards out of wallets again. Though I really fail to see the
point in payWave, and consider that it has a significant security
flaw.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Oyster on target?
 

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:11:35 +0000, Neil Williams wrote:

Or worse to lose your cap because the wrong card picked up.

I suspect this move will be very, very unpopular as people will have to
take cards out of wallets again. Though I really fail to see the point
in payWave, and consider that it has a significant security flaw.


Last time I was in London, I had a new Singapore EzLink in my wallet.
The first Oyster service I used was a bus, and it ready my Oyster fine. I
then found I couldn't use a station gate. So I pull my Oyster out and
present it to the reader on it's own and it's accepted.

Subsequently my wife noticed that every gate I went through started
beeping as I passed.
I then determined that the Singapore card was being detected by the gate
readers from about 15cm or more while still in my pocket. The gates won't
read my Oyster card that far away.

Later experiments with a ticket machine got me the error 'multiple
oysters cards presented' if the Singapore card got any where near the
reader. (With my own Oyster safely out of range btw).

The software in these readers is going to get tricky with multiple
different types of contactless smart card appearing. If the gate supports
paywave, ITSO and Oyster and there is a card that has an Oyster and
Paywave chip in it, when the reader 'excites' the card, two chips are
going to try and send their response at the same time. Now presumably
there is a back-off and retry system, but it's got to extend the read
times, then the gate software is going to get two responses in random
order and it's going to gave to make a decision on which on to use, it
won't necessary be the first response it gets being the most appropriate
to use.

I can see this getting really messy, and not just for nuts like me that
walk around with multiple city's smart cards in my wallet.