Are droids really that stupid
 

I was in London yesterday - I don't do it often, and the trip reminded me
why. However, I also have an Oyster card for emergencies, and it has
about £9 credit on it, as it has now for some three years... IN fact i've
only unsed it once, from New Addington to Easy Croydon by Tramlink when a
family friend died.

Yesterday I needed a convenient rail-served Ikea store, and Croydon
happens to have one.

On the way in - no trouble, Buy a One-day Travelcard on a Railcard from
my local SWT station, train to Wimbledon, tram to Ampere Way. Valid
journey covered by a valid ticket.

Comeing out, I chose to go to East Croydon, then onward to Waterloo East
and a fast train home. And the East Croydon to Home was painless. It was
the ****wit on the tramstop who was the problem.

As I was getting off at EC, I was stopped by a capped man, asking for my
ticket. Stepping off the tram, I showed him the ODTC, and the railcard it
was bought with, and he spotted the Oyster behind the Railcard. Asking to
see the Oyster, he then runs it over his checker, to find that I didn't
touch in at Ampere Way.

Of course, I didn't, says I, I have a valid pass for the entire journey -
the ODTC. Not relevant, says the Droid - if you have a PAYG Oyster, you
MUST touch in at the tramstop, regardless. No, says I, I have already
paid for the tram journey on the ODTC.. etc etc...

Are they really that stupid that they think you have to pay once for your
ticket on the TraveCard and again on the Oyster???

End result, I wasted 10 minutes then walked away, having snatched the
Oyster away from him, and ignored his ****witted cries of "Sir, stop...
Stop sir...!"

I wonder if I will have BTP breaking down my door anytime soon?

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

Are droids really that stupid
 

Only problem I can see is that the detail of the oyster card may be in
his reader. If he still believes, incorrectly, that you are in the
wrong he could possibly cancel the oyster card. If it was registered
you might get a letter with a penalty fare request. Just keep the
ODTC and wait and see what happens

Are droids really that stupid
 

On 24 Oct, 20:49, trainmanUK wrote:
Only problem I can see is that the detail of the oyster card may be in
his reader. *If he still believes, incorrectly, that you are in the
wrong he could possibly cancel the oyster card. *If it was registered
you might get a letter with a penalty fare request. *Just keep the
ODTC and wait and see what happens

Don't just do that at all.

Complain like hell to TfL, London Travelwatch, the GLA and anyone else
you can think of.

Accuse them of systematic fraud if their staff are forcing people to
pay twice for the same journey.

Above all, do not let it drop. Too many people do.

Are droids really that stupid
 

In article
,
(trainmanUK) wrote:

If he still believes, incorrectly, that you are in the
wrong he could possibly cancel the oyster card.

Well, it's still valid as of tonight...

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

Are droids really that stupid
 

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

I would strongly suggest you complain. The man with the hat was
wrong and painfully so according to your comments above

So to clarify, I was right - my paper ODTC covered me entirely, and my
Oyster was irrelevant?

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

Are droids really that stupid
 

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:49:33 -0700 (PDT),
trainmanUK wrote:
Only problem I can see is that the detail of the oyster card may be in
his reader. If he still believes, incorrectly, that you are in the
wrong he could possibly cancel the oyster card. If it was registered
you might get a letter with a penalty fare request. Just keep the
ODTC and wait and see what happens

The barriers at the end of his journey probably ate that. (They do at
Watford Junction anyway which is a nuisance because I was hoping to scan
my last one and ask here what is was actually valid for. It had
something about zones 7-9 on it and I was going to ask if that meant it
was a travel card all the way out to Watford High Street - which could
be useful if I ever discovered I needed to make two trips into London as
home to Watford High Street is a shorter walk than home to Watford Met)

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/

Are droids really that stupid
 

On Oct 27, 10:52*am, Tim Woodall wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:49:33 -0700 (PDT),
* * trainmanUK wrote: Only problem I can see is that the detail of the oyster card may be in
his reader. *If he still believes, incorrectly, that you are in the
wrong he could possibly cancel the oyster card. *If it was registered
you might get a letter with a penalty fare request. *Just keep the
ODTC and wait and see what happens

The barriers at the end of his journey probably ate that. (They do at
Watford Junction anyway which is a nuisance because I was hoping to scan
my last one and ask here what is was actually valid for. It had
something about zones 7-9 on it and I was going to ask if that meant it
was a travel card all the way out to Watford High Street - which could
be useful if I ever discovered I needed to make two trips into London as
home to Watford High Street is a shorter walk than home to Watford Met)

Tim.

If you touched in at Watford High Street, got the London Overground
service to Watford Junction, then the London Midland fast train into
London would you be charged the lower fare on your oyster rather than
touching in at Watford Junction?

Are droids really that stupid
 

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:17:14 -0700 (PDT),
burkey wrote:
On Oct 27, 10:52*am, Tim Woodall wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:49:33 -0700 (PDT),
* * trainmanUK wrote: Only problem I can see is that the detail of the oyster card may be in
his reader. *If he still believes, incorrectly, that you are in the
wrong he could possibly cancel the oyster card. *If it was registered
you might get a letter with a penalty fare request. *Just keep the
ODTC and wait and see what happens

The barriers at the end of his journey probably ate that. (They do at
Watford Junction anyway which is a nuisance because I was hoping to scan
my last one and ask here what is was actually valid for. It had
something about zones 7-9 on it and I was going to ask if that meant it
was a travel card all the way out to Watford High Street - which could
be useful if I ever discovered I needed to make two trips into London as
home to Watford High Street is a shorter walk than home to Watford Met)

Tim.

If you touched in at Watford High Street, got the London Overground
service to Watford Junction, then the London Midland fast train into
London would you be charged the lower fare on your oyster rather than
touching in at Watford Junction?

Yes. I'm not sure if this is allowed but I don't know anything in the
rules that would disallow it and at the moment it would be impossible to
detect as when you're on the overground train you would be going from
Watford High Street to Watford Junction and when you got on the train to
Euston at Watford Junction the guards don't have readers so they cannot
tell where you touched in (or if you did at all)

I don't know if the timings would be any better than taking the train to
Bushey and changing there instead other than there is a higher frequency
of trains from Watford Junction.

Tim.



--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/

Are droids really that stupid
 

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:52:12 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall wrote:

Only problem I can see is that the detail of the oyster card may be in
his reader. If he still believes, incorrectly, that you are in the
wrong he could possibly cancel the oyster card. If it was registered
you might get a letter with a penalty fare request. Just keep the
ODTC and wait and see what happens

The barriers at the end of his journey probably ate that. (They do at
Watford Junction anyway

That's naughty - they're still valid on the 258.

Are droids really that stupid
 

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:56:33 +0000, asdf
wrote:

The barriers at the end of his journey probably ate that. (They do at
Watford Junction anyway

That's naughty - they're still valid on the 258.

AIUI, an outboundary ODTC loses its validity on return to the
originating station. So it might be inconvenient, but I don't think
it's strictly naughty.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Are droids really that stupid
 

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

AIUI, an outboundary ODTC loses its validity on return to the
originating station. So it might be inconvenient, but I don't think
it's strictly naughty.

I Still have the ticket :-)

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

Are droids really that stupid
 

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:56:33PM +0000, asdf wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:52:12 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall wrote:
Just keep the ODTC and wait and see what happens
The barriers at the end of his journey probably ate that. (They do at
Watford Junction anyway
That's naughty - they're still valid on the 258.

They're also valid for another journey from Watford Junction going back
the other way.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

Planckton: n, the smallest possible living thing

Are droids really that stupid
 

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
k...
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:56:33PM +0000, asdf wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:52:12 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall wrote:
Just keep the ODTC and wait and see what happens
The barriers at the end of his journey probably ate that. (They do at
Watford Junction anyway
That's naughty - they're still valid on the 258.

They're also valid for another journey from Watford Junction going back
the other way.

They most definitely are not.

WJ is like any other outside London station in that respect, a ODTC from
that type of station is valid for only one return train journey into London.
The fact that WJ is still inside the London bus area does not change that.

tim

Are droids really that stupid
 

tim.... wrote

WJ is like any other outside London station in that respect, a ODTC
from
that type of station is valid for only one return train journey into
London.
The fact that WJ is still inside the London bus area does not change
that.

Looking at it the other way about, could you buy a out boundary ODTC
"dated for tomorrow" at say Staines or Leatherhead (both have Tfl
"beyonds the zones" services passing) and legally use it to get to get
to the station in the morning ?

How about if it was a super offpeak not valid on rail until 1100+,
could you legally use it on a bus earlier ?

--
Mike D

Are droids really that stupid
 

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:00:50 GMT, Neil Williams wrote:

The barriers at the end of his journey probably ate that. (They do at
Watford Junction anyway

That's naughty - they're still valid on the 258.

AIUI, an outboundary ODTC loses its validity on return to the
originating station. So it might be inconvenient, but I don't think
it's strictly naughty.

I'm sure I've read something official about them still being valid on
TfL buses outside the zones, but can't find where now.

Are droids really that stupid
 

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:00:50 GMT, Neil Williams wrote:

The barriers at the end of his journey probably ate that. (They do
at
Watford Junction anyway

That's naughty - they're still valid on the 258.

AIUI, an outboundary ODTC loses its validity on return to the
originating station. So it might be inconvenient, but I don't think
it's strictly naughty.

I'm sure I've read something official about them still being valid on
TfL buses outside the zones, but can't find where now.

The Manual states

On completion of the return journey Out-boundary Day Travelcards are not
valid for further journeys into the Travelcard area. However, customers
may, upon request, retain their ticket for further journeys that are
wholly within Fare Zones 1-6 only and on the day for which the ticket is
valid. They may also be retained for travel on permitted London bus
services that operate outside the London Fare Zones area. Details of
available bus services are published by Transport for London.

Peter Smyth

Are droids really that stupid
 

On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:20:48 -0000,
Peter Smyth wrote:

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:00:50 GMT, Neil Williams wrote:

The barriers at the end of his journey probably ate that. (They do
at
Watford Junction anyway

That's naughty - they're still valid on the 258.

AIUI, an outboundary ODTC loses its validity on return to the
originating station. So it might be inconvenient, but I don't think
it's strictly naughty.

I'm sure I've read something official about them still being valid on
TfL buses outside the zones, but can't find where now.

The Manual states

On completion of the return journey Out-boundary Day Travelcards are not
valid for further journeys into the Travelcard area. However, customers
may, upon request, retain their ticket for further journeys that are
wholly within Fare Zones 1-6 only and on the day for which the ticket is
valid. They may also be retained for travel on permitted London bus
services that operate outside the London Fare Zones area. Details of
available bus services are published by Transport for London.

That's very interesting. Because if you ask to keep your ticket at
Watford Junction they deliberately put a tear into the magnetic strip.
Of course, this could just be to force you to show your ticket - when in
zones 1-6 it would be accepted, at WJ it would be rejected.

Tim.


--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/