I don't mean Off-Peak Day Return tickets either, I mean the old Saver
Returns which allow you to come back the next day or any day subsequently
for up to a month.

I was told by the Cambridge ticket office clerk yesterday that I couldn't
use an Off-Peak Return ticket to travel on the 09:20 but that I could use
an Off-Peak Day Return. The clerk insisted even though I said as far as I
knew the off-peak rule for at least the last 40 years has been "no arrival
in London before 10". I bought a day return ticket as I was committed to
using the 09:20 and wasn't sure at the time whether I would stay in London
or not. I also didn't want to miss the train.

When I got to work I checked on the FCC web site which said Off-Peak
Return tickets are valid on the 09:20. So I rang FCC Customer Relations.
They also confirmed that and pointed me to National Express East Anglia if
I wanted to convert my day return to an Off-Peak Return so I could stay
overnight. NXEA's Customer Relations people were also very helpful in
advising me how to claim back the excess cost of doing what I asked for in
the first place.

My question here is, however, to ask if others have had similar issues. Is
it one poorly trained (but not inexperienced) member of ticket office
staff or something wider? Or just another squabble between NXEA who run
Cambridge station and FCC who set the fares and carry most of the
passengers?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:

I was told by the Cambridge ticket office clerk yesterday that I couldn't
use an Off-Peak Return ticket to travel on the 09:20 but that I could use
an Off-Peak Day Return. The clerk insisted even though I said as far as I
knew the off-peak rule for at least the last 40 years has been "no arrival
in London before 10". I bought a day return ticket as I was committed to
using the 09:20 and wasn't sure at the time whether I would stay in London
or not. I also didn't want to miss the train.

snip

My question here is, however, to ask if others have had similar issues. Is
it one poorly trained (but not inexperienced) member of ticket office
staff or something wider? Or just another squabble between NXEA who run
Cambridge station and FCC who set the fares and carry most of the
passengers?

In this case, Cambridge Ticket Office appear to have been correct and
both FCC's website and their Customer Relations Department appear to
have been wrong.

The Off-Peak Return from Cambridge to London (priced by FCC) carries a
Restriction Code of 5J, the relevant part of which states:

"By any train scheduled to depart at or after 0930"

The Off-Peak *Day* Return (both Any Permitted and NXEA Only variants),
meanwhile, carries a restriction code of J8, which states:

"By any train scheduled to arrive at London Liverpool Street or London
Kings Cross at or after 1000, Stratford (London) after 0950, Tottenham
Hale or Seven Sisters after 0940."

The only easements listed permit use of an Off-Peak Return on the 0859
from Kings Lynn (and appropriate times from Watlington - Ely,
inclusive), 0904 from Foxton (and appropriate times from Shepreth,
Meldreth and Ashwell & Morden) and 0915 from Sandy (and 0923 from Arlesey).

This *appears* to have changed with NFM96, back in May 2007, though I
stand for correction on that.

Cheers,

Barry

In article ,
wrote:

I was told by the Cambridge ticket office clerk yesterday that I couldn't
use an Off-Peak Return ticket to travel on the 09:20 but that I could use
an Off-Peak Day Return. The clerk insisted even though I said as far as I
knew the off-peak rule for at least the last 40 years has been "no arrival
in London before 10".

How does the 09:20 "arrive in London before 10"? Is there some kind of
boundary line used for this purpose, as I always assumed it was "arrive
at a station in London" which in this case would be KGX at 10:13 or so?

In article ,
wrote:
My question here is, however, to ask if others have had similar issues. Is
it one poorly trained (but not inexperienced) member of ticket office
staff or something wider?

Well, I had a ticket clerk there refuse to sell me a CDR to Hunstanton
Bus with a Network Railcard, insisting on selling separate Cambridge to
Lynn and Lynn to Hunstanton tickets. NXEA subsequently sent me a GBP 1
travel voucher to compensate for the 10p overcharge, which seemed very
reasonable.

--
Ben Harris

In article ,
(Espen H. Koht) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

I was told by the Cambridge ticket office clerk yesterday that I
couldn't use an Off-Peak Return ticket to travel on the 09:20 but
that I could use an Off-Peak Day Return. The clerk insisted even
though I said as far as I knew the off-peak rule for at least the
last 40 years has been "no arrival in London before 10".

How does the 09:20 "arrive in London before 10"? Is there some kind
of boundary line used for this purpose, as I always assumed it was
"arrive at a station in London" which in this case would be KGX at
10:13 or so?

It doesn't "arrive in London before 10". It arrives after 10 and is
therefore outwith the long-standing restriction. The change Barry Salter
refers to also seems to have escaped NXEA Customer Relations in Norwich.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
wrote:

In article ,
(Espen H. Koht) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

I was told by the Cambridge ticket office clerk yesterday that I
couldn't use an Off-Peak Return ticket to travel on the 09:20 but
that I could use an Off-Peak Day Return. The clerk insisted even
though I said as far as I knew the off-peak rule for at least the
last 40 years has been "no arrival in London before 10".

How does the 09:20 "arrive in London before 10"? Is there some kind
of boundary line used for this purpose, as I always assumed it was
"arrive at a station in London" which in this case would be KGX at
10:13 or so?

It doesn't "arrive in London before 10". It arrives after 10 and is
therefore outwith the long-standing restriction. The change Barry Salter
refers to also seems to have escaped NXEA Customer Relations in Norwich.

Miss-parsing on my part of who said what.

In message , at 11:09:36
on Fri, 6 Nov 2009, remarked:
I was told by the Cambridge ticket office clerk yesterday that I
couldn't use an Off-Peak Return ticket to travel on the 09:20 but
that I could use an Off-Peak Day Return. The clerk insisted even
though I said as far as I knew the off-peak rule for at least the
last 40 years has been "no arrival in London before 10".

How does the 09:20 "arrive in London before 10"? Is there some kind
of boundary line used for this purpose, as I always assumed it was
"arrive at a station in London" which in this case would be KGX at
10:13 or so?

It doesn't "arrive in London before 10". It arrives after 10 and is
therefore outwith the long-standing restriction. The change Barry Salter
refers to also seems to have escaped NXEA Customer Relations in Norwich.

It's pretty clear that what they really ought to do (rather than have
several mystic algorithms) is colour in a timetable showing which trains
which tickets are available on. Thameslink used to have one, I'm not
sure if it's carried over to FCC-Bedpan.

EMT have a rudimentary version, and I've got one of my own which I did
so I could know (mainly) which trains off-peak tickets are valid on,
from London to Nottingham - which varies enormously depending on via
Leicester or Grantham. It took hours to research!

If you go to the NXEC website before the 14th Nov (it may be disrupted
after that, who knows) then it has the next best thing - which is a
visual display of which trains you can catch if you select different
fares.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
(Barry Salter) wrote:

wrote:

I was told by the Cambridge ticket office clerk yesterday that I
couldn't use an Off-Peak Return ticket to travel on the 09:20 but
that I could use an Off-Peak Day Return. The clerk insisted even
though I said as far as I knew the off-peak rule for at least the
last 40 years has been "no arrival in London before 10". I bought
a day return ticket as I was committed to using the 09:20 and
wasn't sure at the time whether I would stay in London or not. I
also didn't want to miss the train.

snip

My question here is, however, to ask if others have had similar
issues. Is it one poorly trained (but not inexperienced) member
of ticket office staff or something wider? Or just another
squabble between NXEA who run Cambridge station and FCC who set
the fares and carry most of the passengers?

In this case, Cambridge Ticket Office appear to have been correct
and both FCC's website and their Customer Relations Department
appear to have been wrong.

The Off-Peak Return from Cambridge to London (priced by FCC)
carries a Restriction Code of 5J, the relevant part of which states:

"By any train scheduled to depart at or after 0930"

The Off-Peak *Day* Return (both Any Permitted and NXEA Only
variants), meanwhile, carries a restriction code of J8, which
states:

"By any train scheduled to arrive at London Liverpool Street or
London Kings Cross at or after 1000, Stratford (London) after 0950,
Tottenham Hale or Seven Sisters after 0940."

The only easements listed permit use of an Off-Peak Return on the
0859 from Kings Lynn (and appropriate times from Watlington - Ely,
inclusive), 0904 from Foxton (and appropriate times from Shepreth,
Meldreth and Ashwell & Morden) and 0915 from Sandy (and 0923 from
Arlesey).

This *appears* to have changed with NFM96, back in May 2007, though
I stand for correction on that.

Cheers,

Hmm. We'll see what response I now get from NXEA.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at
11:09:36 on Fri, 6 Nov 2009, remarked:
I was told by the Cambridge ticket office clerk yesterday that I
couldn't use an Off-Peak Return ticket to travel on the 09:20 but
that I could use an Off-Peak Day Return. The clerk insisted even
though I said as far as I knew the off-peak rule for at least the
last 40 years has been "no arrival in London before 10".

How does the 09:20 "arrive in London before 10"? Is there some kind
of boundary line used for this purpose, as I always assumed it was
"arrive at a station in London" which in this case would be KGX at
10:13 or so?

It doesn't "arrive in London before 10". It arrives after 10 and is
therefore outwith the long-standing restriction. The change Barry
Salter
refers to also seems to have escaped NXEA Customer Relations in
Norwich.

It's pretty clear that what they really ought to do (rather than have
several mystic algorithms) is colour in a timetable showing which
trains which tickets are available on. Thameslink used to have one,
I'm not sure if it's carried over to FCC-Bedpan.

That is exactly what they do. The problem is that the various
restriction codes in the NFM do not match exactly with the pretty
colours in the timetable.

Peter Smyth

In message , at 19:25:10 on Fri, 6
Nov 2009, Peter Smyth remarked:
It's pretty clear that what they really ought to do (rather than have
several mystic algorithms) is colour in a timetable showing which
trains which tickets are available on. Thameslink used to have one,
I'm not sure if it's carried over to FCC-Bedpan.

That is exactly what they do. The problem is that the various
restriction codes in the NFM do not match exactly with the pretty
colours in the timetable.

If Colin has a coloured-in timetable upon which he wishes to rely, then
perhaps someone can post a url. We can then see in what way, for the
ticket he desires, it differs from the NFM rules.
--
Roland Perry