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Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
I don't mean Off-Peak Day Return tickets either, I mean the old Saver
Returns which allow you to come back the next day or any day subsequently for up to a month. I was told by the Cambridge ticket office clerk yesterday that I couldn't use an Off-Peak Return ticket to travel on the 09:20 but that I could use an Off-Peak Day Return. The clerk insisted even though I said as far as I knew the off-peak rule for at least the last 40 years has been "no arrival in London before 10". I bought a day return ticket as I was committed to using the 09:20 and wasn't sure at the time whether I would stay in London or not. I also didn't want to miss the train. When I got to work I checked on the FCC web site which said Off-Peak Return tickets are valid on the 09:20. So I rang FCC Customer Relations. They also confirmed that and pointed me to National Express East Anglia if I wanted to convert my day return to an Off-Peak Return so I could stay overnight. NXEA's Customer Relations people were also very helpful in advising me how to claim back the excess cost of doing what I asked for in the first place. My question here is, however, to ask if others have had similar issues. Is it one poorly trained (but not inexperienced) member of ticket office staff or something wider? Or just another squabble between NXEA who run Cambridge station and FCC who set the fares and carry most of the passengers? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
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Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
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Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
In article ,
wrote: My question here is, however, to ask if others have had similar issues. Is it one poorly trained (but not inexperienced) member of ticket office staff or something wider? Well, I had a ticket clerk there refuse to sell me a CDR to Hunstanton Bus with a Network Railcard, insisting on selling separate Cambridge to Lynn and Lynn to Hunstanton tickets. NXEA subsequently sent me a GBP 1 travel voucher to compensate for the 10p overcharge, which seemed very reasonable. -- Ben Harris |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
In article ,
wrote: In article , (Espen H. Koht) wrote: In article , wrote: I was told by the Cambridge ticket office clerk yesterday that I couldn't use an Off-Peak Return ticket to travel on the 09:20 but that I could use an Off-Peak Day Return. The clerk insisted even though I said as far as I knew the off-peak rule for at least the last 40 years has been "no arrival in London before 10". How does the 09:20 "arrive in London before 10"? Is there some kind of boundary line used for this purpose, as I always assumed it was "arrive at a station in London" which in this case would be KGX at 10:13 or so? It doesn't "arrive in London before 10". It arrives after 10 and is therefore outwith the long-standing restriction. The change Barry Salter refers to also seems to have escaped NXEA Customer Relations in Norwich. Miss-parsing on my part of who said what. |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
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Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
In article ,
(Barry Salter) wrote: wrote: I was told by the Cambridge ticket office clerk yesterday that I couldn't use an Off-Peak Return ticket to travel on the 09:20 but that I could use an Off-Peak Day Return. The clerk insisted even though I said as far as I knew the off-peak rule for at least the last 40 years has been "no arrival in London before 10". I bought a day return ticket as I was committed to using the 09:20 and wasn't sure at the time whether I would stay in London or not. I also didn't want to miss the train. snip My question here is, however, to ask if others have had similar issues. Is it one poorly trained (but not inexperienced) member of ticket office staff or something wider? Or just another squabble between NXEA who run Cambridge station and FCC who set the fares and carry most of the passengers? In this case, Cambridge Ticket Office appear to have been correct and both FCC's website and their Customer Relations Department appear to have been wrong. The Off-Peak Return from Cambridge to London (priced by FCC) carries a Restriction Code of 5J, the relevant part of which states: "By any train scheduled to depart at or after 0930" The Off-Peak *Day* Return (both Any Permitted and NXEA Only variants), meanwhile, carries a restriction code of J8, which states: "By any train scheduled to arrive at London Liverpool Street or London Kings Cross at or after 1000, Stratford (London) after 0950, Tottenham Hale or Seven Sisters after 0940." The only easements listed permit use of an Off-Peak Return on the 0859 from Kings Lynn (and appropriate times from Watlington - Ely, inclusive), 0904 from Foxton (and appropriate times from Shepreth, Meldreth and Ashwell & Morden) and 0915 from Sandy (and 0923 from Arlesey). This *appears* to have changed with NFM96, back in May 2007, though I stand for correction on that. Cheers, Hmm. We'll see what response I now get from NXEA. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 11:09:36 on Fri, 6 Nov 2009, remarked: I was told by the Cambridge ticket office clerk yesterday that I couldn't use an Off-Peak Return ticket to travel on the 09:20 but that I could use an Off-Peak Day Return. The clerk insisted even though I said as far as I knew the off-peak rule for at least the last 40 years has been "no arrival in London before 10". How does the 09:20 "arrive in London before 10"? Is there some kind of boundary line used for this purpose, as I always assumed it was "arrive at a station in London" which in this case would be KGX at 10:13 or so? It doesn't "arrive in London before 10". It arrives after 10 and is therefore outwith the long-standing restriction. The change Barry Salter refers to also seems to have escaped NXEA Customer Relations in Norwich. It's pretty clear that what they really ought to do (rather than have several mystic algorithms) is colour in a timetable showing which trains which tickets are available on. Thameslink used to have one, I'm not sure if it's carried over to FCC-Bedpan. That is exactly what they do. The problem is that the various restriction codes in the NFM do not match exactly with the pretty colours in the timetable. Peter Smyth |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
In message , at 19:25:10 on Fri, 6
Nov 2009, Peter Smyth remarked: It's pretty clear that what they really ought to do (rather than have several mystic algorithms) is colour in a timetable showing which trains which tickets are available on. Thameslink used to have one, I'm not sure if it's carried over to FCC-Bedpan. That is exactly what they do. The problem is that the various restriction codes in the NFM do not match exactly with the pretty colours in the timetable. If Colin has a coloured-in timetable upon which he wishes to rely, then perhaps someone can post a url. We can then see in what way, for the ticket he desires, it differs from the NFM rules. -- Roland Perry |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
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Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 19:25:10 on Fri, 6 Nov 2009, Peter Smyth remarked: It's pretty clear that what they really ought to do (rather than have several mystic algorithms) is colour in a timetable showing which trains which tickets are available on. Thameslink used to have one, I'm not sure if it's carried over to FCC-Bedpan. That is exactly what they do. The problem is that the various restriction codes in the NFM do not match exactly with the pretty colours in the timetable. If Colin has a coloured-in timetable upon which he wishes to rely, then perhaps someone can post a url. We can then see in what way, for the ticket he desires, it differs from the NFM rules. The timetable is at http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...ambridge_1.pdf and shows off-peak tickets as permitted on the 0920 from Cambridge. However as Barry posted, the restriction in the Fares Manual for a Off-Peak Return is depart at or after 0930. Peter Smyth |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
In message , at 21:00:22 on Fri, 6
Nov 2009, Peter Smyth remarked: If Colin has a coloured-in timetable upon which he wishes to rely, then perhaps someone can post a url. We can then see in what way, for the ticket he desires, it differs from the NFM rules. The timetable is at http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...s/kingscrossto stevenagecambridge_1.pdf and shows off-peak tickets as permitted on the 0920 from Cambridge. However as Barry posted, the restriction in the Fares Manual for a Off-Peak Return is depart at or after 0930. But there's apparently different rules for offpeak returns and offpeak *day* returns. That needs more colours. -- Roland Perry |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
"Ben Harris" wrote in message ... In article , wrote: Well, I had a ticket clerk there refuse to sell me a CDR to Hunstanton Bus with a Network Railcard, insisting on selling separate Cambridge to Lynn and Lynn to Hunstanton tickets. NXEA subsequently sent me a GBP 1 travel voucher to compensate for the 10p overcharge, which seemed very reasonable. That seems odd, because as far as the map goes Hunstanton is outside the Network Card area? Paul S |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
In cam.transport Roland Perry wrote:
But there's apparently different rules for offpeak returns and offpeak *day* returns. That needs more colours. Or they could implement saner restrictions. -- Robin Stevens ---- http://www.cynic.org.uk/ ---- |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
In message , at
22:14:34 on Fri, 6 Nov 2009, Robin Stevens remarked: But there's apparently different rules for offpeak returns and offpeak *day* returns. That needs more colours. Or they could implement saner restrictions. But that's the point of wanting the colours - it shows whether the restrictions are sane or not, in particular highlighting the edge cases where one ticket is valid but the next cheaper one isn't. Presumably in this case there's one train that they want to send the first wave of cheap ticket people off to London on, and the following train the next wave. Maybe it would be overcrowded otherwise (and who is to say they'd merge the two waves onto the first rather than the second train, if the same threshold applied to both?). -- Roland Perry |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
... Presumably in this case there's one train that they want to send the first wave of cheap ticket people off to London on, and the following train the next wave. That's a change, then. For years my experience was that the next train after the first cheap train was the one most likely to be cancelled. -- Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb Cambridge City Councillor |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
In article ,
Paul Scott wrote: "Ben Harris" wrote in message ... Well, I had a ticket clerk there refuse to sell me a CDR to Hunstanton Bus with a Network Railcard, insisting on selling separate Cambridge to Lynn and Lynn to Hunstanton tickets. NXEA subsequently sent me a GBP 1 travel voucher to compensate for the 10p overcharge, which seemed very reasonable. That seems odd, because as far as the map goes Hunstanton is outside the Network Card area? Hunstanton and the bus link to it don't seem to be marked on the map at all, so whether they're inside or outside the Network area isn't obvious. The fact that the NRE Web site will offer a discounted fare for the journey is highly suggestive, though. -- Ben Harris |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
In message , at 23:11:49 on Fri, 6
Nov 2009, Tim Ward remarked: Presumably in this case there's one train that they want to send the first wave of cheap ticket people off to London on, and the following train the next wave. That's a change, then. For years my experience was that the next train after the first cheap train was the one most likely to be cancelled. I don't know about the cancellation issue, but having what I think they call "shoulder peak" is increasingly common. I'll quote the Nottingham-London route because that timetable does have multiple colours. Trains up to and including the 8.02 (arr 10.00) are full price. The 8.28 (arr 10.19), 9.02 and 9.28 (arr 11.19) are "off peak" The 10.02 (arr 12.03) and later trains are "super off peak". There are correspondingly different blackout periods for returning home in the evening for the two types of off-peak ticket. -- Roland Perry |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:00:22 on Fri, 6 Nov 2009, Peter Smyth remarked: The timetable is at http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...s/kingscrossto stevenagecambridge_1.pdf and shows off-peak tickets as permitted on the 0920 from Cambridge. However as Barry posted, the restriction in the Fares Manual for a Off-Peak Return is depart at or after 0930. But there's apparently different rules for offpeak returns and offpeak *day* returns. That needs more colours. But you need even more colours, because different start and endpoints have different restrictions. So, I think, there are no evening peak restrictions on return halves of tickets from Ely to London. But there are from Cambridge to London. But the Ely person might take a train to Cambridge and change. And then what about the person with a ticket from Penzance to Cambridge, where the restrictions are on the Paddington leg not the King's Cross leg? Theo |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
In message , at 15:13:49 on Sat,
7 Nov 2009, Theo Markettos remarked: The timetable is at http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...s/kingscrossto stevenagecambridge_1.pdf and shows off-peak tickets as permitted on the 0920 from Cambridge. However as Barry posted, the restriction in the Fares Manual for a Off-Peak Return is depart at or after 0930. But there's apparently different rules for offpeak returns and offpeak *day* returns. That needs more colours. But you need even more colours, because different start and endpoints have different restrictions. So, I think, there are no evening peak restrictions on return halves of tickets from Ely to London. But there are from Cambridge to London. So you have different timetables for different end stations. But the Ely person might take a train to Cambridge and change. Their allowable train will still be on the Ely timetable (if it shows connections at Cambridge. And then what about the person with a ticket from Penzance to Cambridge, where the restrictions are on the Paddington leg not the King's Cross leg? Then they don't need to consult a London-Cambridge timetable to examine their London-Cambridge restrictions, because there aren't any. -- Roland Perry |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
In article ,
(Theo Markettos) wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 21:00:22 on Fri, 6 Nov 2009, Peter Smyth remarked: The timetable is at http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...kingscrosstost evenagecambridge_1.pdf and shows off-peak tickets as permitted on the 0920 from Cambridge. However as Barry posted, the restriction in the Fares Manual for a Off-Peak Return is depart at or after 0930. But there's apparently different rules for offpeak returns and offpeak *day* returns. That needs more colours. But you need even more colours, because different start and endpoints have different restrictions. So, I think, there are no evening peak restrictions on return halves of tickets from Ely to London. But there are from Cambridge to London. But the Ely person might take a train to Cambridge and change. And then what about the person with a ticket from Penzance to Cambridge, where the restrictions are on the Paddington leg not the King's Cross leg? I'm only referring to Cambridge-London timetable leaflets so Ely is an irrelevance. The main reason for my surprise is that the evening peak restrictions on Off Peak (ex-Saver) Returns are less onerous in the evenings! -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
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Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote: In message , at 16:34:55 on Sat, 7 Nov 2009, remarked: The main reason for my surprise is that the evening peak restrictions on Off Peak (ex-Saver) Returns are less onerous in the evenings! This has happened on several routes recently, where they have re-discovered the concept of a "Business Saver" (offpeak out, peak back) and turned that into the Off-peak ticket; and the Saver became the Super-off-peak. The only problem is that it is usually accompanied by a corresponding stealth fare increase (to the old BS price that was typically halfway between the Saver and the Open, as befitted its validity). My Offpeak tickets from Nottingham to London are now 50% more expensive than four years ago, and the Super-off-peak are a 'reasonable' price but come with swingeing restrictions on then they can be use (first train out doesn't get to London until just after midday, and there's an afternoon blackout on the return from 3.15pm (last train allowed) to 7.15pm (first train allowed again). FCC has the latter sort of restrictions but only as drastic for *day* returns. You haven't suggested a *more* onerous restriction on 30 day returns than on day returns at one time of the day and a less onerous restriction on the same tickets in the evening peak. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Off-Peak Return tickets Cambridge-London
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