On Dec 15, 11:16*am, David Cantrell wrote:
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 02:33:33PM -0800, Chris wrote:
On 12 Dec, 15:09, MIG wrote:
I suspect that validators in trains now would be hugely expensive,
Too right - they would have to be permantently in touch with the
central database!

Would they? *I don't think the ones on buses are.

Buses are touch-in-only-flat-fare, so don't need to do any thinking
(the validator just does $BALANCE - $FLATFARE).

To do the same on trains would either requite a flat fare (which might
be a bit of a stretch), or really quite terrifying amounts of
technology.


--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Dec 15, 11:21*am, David Cantrell wrote:
On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 12:44:52PM +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:
[priv cards and Oyster]

That reminds me - my parents get staff rates on NR and the tube, because
my dad is a BR pensioner. *Is there such a thing as a priv rate PAYG
card that they could use on the tube rather than have to go to a ticket
office? *And how do they get hold of them if they exist?

Yes there is - they'll need a PAYG Oyster card but have to present a
pre-authorised form at a LU ticket office who will issue the card,
register it and set the "privilege" rate on the card. They'll need to
show whatever priv card they have for NR travel to prove their
entitlement when purchasing the card and also on subsequent journeys
(just like any railcard that gives a discount). They are then able to
travel at priv rate on LUL / DLR etc. There are details on the staff
travel section of the ATOC website so I suggest they try there first.
We have our own paperwork within TfL which I believe differs from that
for TOCs / ATOC.

--
Paul C
via Google

On 15 Dec, 11:59, David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 07:58:25PM +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:27:25 +0000, David Cantrell
wrote:
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 08:13:23AM +0000, asdf wrote:
What about all the tourists? It's hard for many of them to understand
Oyster.
OEPs won't exactly help here.
Let's be honest though - how many tourists are going to hold a period
travelcard and then wish to travel beyond its zonal availability?

Uh, any of them who are visiting for a week, spend most of the time
doing the usual tourist things in zone 1, but on a couple of days go a
bit further out to visit, eg, Kew Gardens or Hampton Court.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *If
there are more than 100 in a year I would be surprised. *Some tourists
just won't bother to use public transport, some will buy day tickets and
some will be brave and use PAYG. * It's been a heck of a long time since
we've had a query on here from an aspiring visitor who might find a
weekly travelcard best value.

For a tiresome and complicated penny-pinching transport-geek version of
value, perhaps. *When people ask *me* what ticket they should get, I
recommend a travelcard, because it's simple and it Just Works. *If it
happens to cost a coupla quid more than the more complicated but cheaper
combination of tickets which qould require an in-depth knowledge of the
minutiae of fares, then I very much doubt that any of the people who've
asked me would care.

Also, the weekly travelcard is less than five times the off-peak cap
for equivalent zones, and allows travel during the peak and for seven
days.

But the advantage of avoiding the £3 deposit is no longer true.

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
k...
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 02:33:33PM -0800, Chris wrote:
On 12 Dec, 15:09, MIG wrote:
I suspect that validators in trains now would be hugely expensive,
Too right - they would have to be permantently in touch with the
central database!

Would they? I don't think the ones on buses are.

They aren't, but bus validation is simpler than other transport modes. I
wouldn't expect an on-train validator would need permanent contact with the
database because the current system must allow for the possibility that
station-based validators might not be able to access the central database
all the time. I would expect an on-train validator might need a bit more
intelligence built into the validator itself, which would be a maintenance
overhead, and they would also need an accurate idea of where the train was
so that they could flag the correct entry or exit on the card.

D A Stocks

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:56:32 +0000, David Cantrell
wrote:

You assume that the newsagent is open. And that their machine works.
And that the punter already has a card.

Do Ticket Stops not hold a stock of cards? Must admit that surprises
me.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:37:47 -0800 (PST), John B
wrote:

To do the same on trains would either requite a flat fare (which might
be a bit of a stretch), or really quite terrifying amounts of
technology.

And a lot of readers. London Midland, for instance, could have any of
their units operating a service calling at Watford Junction or
stations south thereof.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:45:27 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

But it hasn't made life *any worse* for people living in the areas
where it isn't accepted.

It has in areas where it is only *partially* accepted. *Areas where
Oyster is hard to get hold of have had their cash bus fares approximately
doubled.

Luckily, there are no such areas also served by London buses (go to
newsagent - "can you put gbp10 on this please mate" - "yes").

There isn't an agent at Passingford Bridge or Stapleford Abbots as
served by route 375.

There isn't an agent at Dorking as served by route 465.

I was slightly surprised to see that there is an agent at Leatherhead,
one in Brentwood (route 498) and several in Epsom (467. 406. 418. 293)
and even a couple in Redhill (route 405).

There are also few (any?) areas served by night buses that have ticket
stops open at night.

On 15 Dec, 18:48, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:59:00 +0000, David Cantrell

wrote:
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 07:58:25PM +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:27:25 +0000, David Cantrell
wrote:
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 08:13:23AM +0000, asdf wrote:
What about all the tourists? It's hard for many of them to understand
Oyster.
OEPs won't exactly help here.
Let's be honest though - how many tourists are going to hold a period
travelcard and then wish to travel beyond its zonal availability?

Uh, any of them who are visiting for a week, spend most of the time
doing the usual tourist things in zone 1, but on a couple of days go a
bit further out to visit, eg, Kew Gardens or Hampton Court.

Are these places always on the tourist trail for people who stay a week?

For a tiresome and complicated penny-pinching transport-geek version of
value, perhaps. *When people ask *me* what ticket they should get, I
recommend a travelcard, because it's simple and it Just Works. *If it
happens to cost a coupla quid more than the more complicated but cheaper
combination of tickets which qould require an in-depth knowledge of the
minutiae of fares, then I very much doubt that any of the people who've
asked me would care.

I've advised five people *this month alone* that when they visit London
for a week, they should get a zone 1 and 2 travelcard, and buy an
extension ticket if travelling outside their zones.

Well that proves it then doesn't it? *I'm clearly completely wrong and
have nothing valid to add. You win.

--
Paul C

But a travelcard is clearly a better deal if they want to travel
before 0930, and for seven days, and will do enough travel every day
that they'd reach their cap regardless of extensions.

PAYG is a better deal if they'll spend some whole days in their hotel
or make just one return journey on some days.

It's not all or nothing. I don't understand why argue about it.

On 15 Dec, 20:30, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:56:32 +0000, David Cantrell

wrote:
You assume that the newsagent is open. *And that their machine works.
And that the punter already has a card.

Do Ticket Stops not hold a stock of cards? *Must admit that surprises
me.

They certainly sometimes do. Don't know if it can be relied on though.

On Dec 15, 11:59*am, David Cantrell wrote:

I don't recall ever seeing one, not even at Victoria or London Bridge
(where you get a train from to go to Gatwick) or Paddington (where you
get a train from for Heathrow) or Liverpool St (where you get a train
from if you're silly enough to use Stanstead) or Kings Cross or Euston
(where you get a train from if you're Scottish) or St Pancras (where you
get a train from if you're French or Belgian). *But then, I've not been
looking for them. *I doubt many people look for them. *I expect most
tourists' Oyster cards go in the bin.

The box at Liverpool St is hard to miss - it's in your way as you go
up the small flight of stairs from the Tube gateline. Likewise,
there's one in your way as you leave the sub-surface ticket hall at
KXSP heading towards St Pancras. They're attached to the usual Tube
free-standing poster frame thingies.