Paul Scott wrote

Paul Scott wrote:
"solar penguin" wrote

What are we supposed to do when off-peak paper tickets in London
are
abolished next year?

They haven't said that, they've said offpeak day return (CDR) paper
tickets will not be available for travel within the zones. They
haven't said there will be 'no paper tickets at all'. They'll still
be needed to travel outside London, and I'm expecting when the NR
fares changes are published they'll be selling paper offpeak
travelcards in lieu of CDRs. The price is only marginally higher
normally.

Update today, as far as I can see the new NR fares are now uploaded
for
dates beyond Jan 2nd.

Using as an example Surbiton - Waterloo[NR], the options seem to be:

Anytime SIngle £5.00
Anytime Day return £9.80
Anytime Travelcard £14.80
Offpeak Travelcard £7.50 - same as daily Oyster PAYG cap

The current Offpeak day return (CDR ) was £6.50 (but has disappeared
AFAICT).

So "The price is only marginally higher" is £1 more.

But how much is a Esher or Hinchley Wood - Waterloo[NR] CDR which will
still be available ? both come in Off-peak and Super-off-peak versions.

And since only 1-6 1-4 1-2 & 2-6 off-peak ODTCs exist, and Railcard
discount only on a 1-6 or a CDR how about Surbition - Wimbledon or
Surbiton - New Malden for a worse case ?


--
Mike D

Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
Paul Scott wrote

Update today, as far as I can see the new NR fares are now uploaded
for dates beyond Jan 2nd.

Using as an example Surbiton - Waterloo[NR], the options seem to be:

Anytime SIngle £5.00
Anytime Day return £9.80
Anytime Travelcard £14.80
Offpeak Travelcard £7.50 - same as daily Oyster PAYG cap

The current Offpeak day return (CDR ) was £6.50 (but has disappeared
AFAICT).

So "The price is only marginally higher" is £1 more.

I think £1 extra is a bargain for the extra validity you get. How many pax
just want to get to Waterloo after all?

But how much is a Esher or Hinchley Wood - Waterloo[NR] CDR which will
still be available ? both come in Off-peak and Super-off-peak
versions.

Esher - Waterloo:

Offpeak Day Return £8.70 - so more than the inboundary travelcard
Super Offpeak Day Return £6.80 - but no longer valid for return travel
between 1600 & 1900, as well as the existing morning restrictions.

I guess you're wondering if people might prefer to save 70p in the offpeak
and have an argument when the Surbiton barriers won't let them through?

Paul S

solar penguin wrote:
Mr Thant wrote:

In fact, Southern already use zonal pricing for their seasons, so a
Gipsy Hill - Sutton season costs exactly the same as what the OP has

Thanks. I didn't know that. You mean they've been charging me for
journeys all the way to Sutton even when I've only been going as far as
West Croydon! The sneaky *******s!

and I'm fairly certain is valid via both East and West Croydon
and, so there's very little reason for them not to switch to one.


Might also be valid via Balham/Mitcham as well. If so, I'd probably use
that enough to justify getting one.

Silly question, would it still open the barriers at West Croydon?

I buy a "limit of the zone" to "limit of the zone" annual season ticket,
and the barriers at Sutton accept it but the ones at Wallington don't.
There is usually a queue of people with seasons waiting to be let
through the manual gates at Wallington.

In the past I used to get a one-zone travelcard as it wasn't that much
more expensive and once I'd paid it made the marginal cost of bus and
trips 0, but then they abolished them and a two-zone travelcard is
vastly more expensive than a rail-only season ticket and paying bus
fares on Oyster. Even if the black helicopters can now find me.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

John B wrote:
On Dec 7, 8:10 pm, "solar penguin"
wrote:
Add to that the fact with Travelcards instead of normal seasons, you're
forced into paying extra for availability on other modes of transport,
etc. that 99% of the time you're just not going to be using, and it
becomes even less sensible. (Well, I suppose that might be sensible,
convenient etc. for you, if and only if you routinely travel on many
different modes of transport. But for the rest of us, it just plain
isn't.)

But who doesn't? I mean, who doesn't go out at weekends or evenings,
who doesn't vary their route to work based on whether there are delays
and if so on what mode, whether it's raining and how tired you are
(for nearer-to-home-but-less-convenient-journey versus longer-walk-
direct-journey versus bus), on whether they're in their normal office
or a site somewhere, on whether they've stayed the night at home or at
a friend's or partner's place, on a million other factors...?

It wouldn't surprise me if most people don't. Especially keeping in mind
that the sorts of people who use transport anorak newsgroups are very
unlikely to accurately represent the population as a whole!

Across London (and this is true even in Tube-less SE London), there
are a huge number of alternative transport modes, be they bus, train
or Tube, that you'll certainly want to use when things go a bit wrong,
which is fairly often, and that you'll often want to use even when
they don't.

When the trains got titsup the buses (usually) seem to take train
tickets. Even if they don't, they don't break hundreds of times a year.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:37:44 -0000, "solar penguin"
wrote:

I've been thinking a lot about my feelings towards Oyster, trying to
work out _why_ I'm so sceptical towards it. I think it's because I'm
sceptical towards the whole "zonal fares and Travelcards" concepts which
Oyster is far too heavily mixed up in for my liking.

You'll have to explain your thinking here. If there is a zonal, ride at
will, multi modal ticket available I would always purchase it. It just
gives so much more choice over travel options with little need to be
concerned about where you are going once you've worked out the zones you
want. Still I've buying zonally based tickets (all over the world) for
about 30 years or so so I suppose I'm used to them.

A point to point ticket might well say reasonably explicitly what it is
valid for - "A to B single" or something. With a fancy product, Sod's
Law says you stumble across the one service a week which doesn't
actually accept it (especially if an airport is involved!).

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:34:17AM -0800, John B wrote:

The point is, on LU it isn't a problem, because on LU there's no
reason to have a paper season ticket and paper season tickets aren't
sold.

Do LU sell one day travelcards on Oyster now then? Travelcards are
season tickets, the one day version just happen to be for a very short
season.

--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

We found no search results for "crotchet". Did you mean "crotch"?

On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 05:16:54PM -0000, Paul Scott wrote:

I think £1 extra is a bargain for the extra validity you get.

Only if you need the extra validity.

How many pax
just want to get to Waterloo after all?

I do. Every time I've been to or from Waterloo station in the past
several years it's been because I needed to be somewhere near to that
station, within a short walk. If I want to go anywhere else, it's
always been better to change at Balham, Victoria or London Bridge.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "internet beard fetish club"

Human Rights left unattended may be removed,
destroyed, or damaged by the security services.

On 9 Dec, 14:58, David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:34:17AM -0800, John B wrote:
The point is, on LU it isn't a problem, because on LU there's no
reason to have a paper season ticket and paper season tickets aren't
sold.

Do LU sell one day travelcards on Oyster now then? *Travelcards are
season tickets, the one day version just happen to be for a very short
season.


And it's possible that one might realise later in the day that one
needs to extend zones. That's happened to me too.

On 8 Dec, 20:56, Arthur Figgis wrote:
When the trains got titsup the buses (usually) seem to take train
tickets. Even if they don't, they don't break hundreds of times a year.

OK, so how will this work going foward. Currently, you just show the
driver your (paper) ticket & he lets you on. How will he know what
(rail) ticket you have on a flashed oyster card? And if you're using
PAYG, x number of buses to get to your destibnation might cost more
than your NR trip across the zones....

On Dec 9, 2:58*pm, David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:34:17AM -0800, John B wrote:
The point is, on LU it isn't a problem, because on LU there's no
reason to have a paper season ticket and paper season tickets aren't
sold.

Do LU sell one day travelcards on Oyster now then? *Travelcards are
season tickets, the one day version just happen to be for a very short
season.

No they aren't, which is why the combination-of-ticket rules are
different (ie with a ODTC, you need to have a BZ ticket or for the
train to stop at the station where validity changes).

In any case, paper ODTCs become irrelevant at the same time as the
abolition of CDRs (actually, that's an interesting one - are LU going
to continue selling paper ODTCs now that there is absolutely no
advantage in having one compared to a capped Oyster PAYG?)

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org