On 13 Dec, 12:44, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:04:46 GMT, "Steve Dulieu"

wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
I think I will start a campaign to have validators installed on trains
so I don't have to get off at the boundary point (one of your big
complaints!). *Thought you might find that a little amusing.

I think a campaign to get a PAYG purse enabled on our staff passes might be
a better idea. Is there any reason why one couldn't?

I broadly agree. The same issue was raised a while back in respect of
the Freedom Pass and it was rejected. I am not sure as to why and I am
not familiar with the card data structure. *Under the old magnetic
structure you couldn't have a permit and a season ticket encoded on the
same stripe. *However a Smartcard has far greater capacity and
capability but of course all issuing and reading devices would have to
be able to cope with a combined staff and public card. I suspect the
cost at this stage would utterly outweigh the benefit when people can be
advised to just hold a second Oyster card.

--
Paul C

I believe that the issue with Freedom Passes is that they are "owned"
by the London Boroughs that issue them, and e-money directive issues
then arise with TfL "owning" the PAYG credit.

The easiest way to solve the staff pass issue would be to create
another discount level of fares (similar to the 16-17/New Deal fare
levels), with TfL-only journeys set at £0.00, loadable onto an
ordinary Oyster card.

However, the issues with this would be:

i) staff having to touch in and out on each journey

ii) staff being reminded not to use National Rail intermediately for
journeys starting AND finishing at TfL stations

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 09:56:52 -0800 (PST), John B
wrote:

1. All NR stations in the Zones need the equipment to issue Oyster.

Which we know will happen at the same time as Oyster extension.
PROBLEM SOLVED.

It won't. A machine-only unstaffed station, of which there are a few,
cannot *issue* an Oyster for the first time. They may be able to top
one up, but that's not 100% of the problem solved.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:49:58 GMT
(Neil Williams) wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:49:26 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

Oyster was introduced to benefit TfL, no one else.

Rubbish. It benefits passengers as well, by...

1. Removing any need for bus conductors, thus reducing the cost to
TfL, and thus reducing fares (or reducing their increase).

Yeah , right.


2. Making buses move more quickly.

Buses moved a lot quicker when there wasn't a 10 deep queue waiting to touch
in because the conductor sold the tickets. Bendy buses still make damn
quick getaways because you pay before you board. Though thanks to Boris we'll
soon be back to effin midget buses and double deckers everywhere.

3. Removing the need to carry as much cash.

I don't find carrying cash a problem.

4. Removing the need to stop to buy a ticket.

You just have to top up instead. Plus ca change.

5. Removing the need to predict whether you need a Travelcard at the
start of the day or not.

Eh? Don't you know where you're going?

6. Allowing journeys to be extended without stopping off to buy a
ticket or indeed decide you wish to do it before boarding (give or
take OEPs, which I disagree with as a concept).

Only with PAYG. With a monthly you'll still need to go to the window and
cough up to be let out.

B2003

Paul Terry wrote:

Well currently Epsom Downs doesn't have Sunday services or for that matter
a
ticket office (the station building is now a nursery) but the other
stations
do and the point does apply to evenings. In the old days the solution was
obvious - buy a permit to travel and sort it out on the train or the
destination.

But a permit to travel only covers the user from the starting station to a
point at which they can pay for a ticket.

Maybe in theory but it was proof of intention to buy a ticket and so one
could request the extension in good faith either from an inspector on the
train or at the destination. One didn't need to interrupt the journey en
route purely to obtain the extension.

What I'm saying is that the situation from 2/1/2010 is no worse than it is
at present - the journey will have to be interrupted at some point in
order to either buy an extension ticket or collect an OEP if neither are
available at the start of the journey.

Well that *is* worse to be honest because one currently *doesn't* need to
stop off en route as the human contact on the trains are aware that there
are stations where one cannot buy the necessary ticket. That's different
from the OEP system where at a ticket inspection en route the passenger is
expected to have sorted all this out at the start and tough myran if
that's not possible at the start,

asdf wrote

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:41:22 -0800 (PST), John B wrote:

...which solely leaves people with season Travelcards from outside
the
zones. Now, these are z123456,

Not all of them - you can get them to z6, z56, etc.

Cite to leaflet or Fare Manual ?

I (Surrey, SWT) have never been offered one - it would have been a lot
cheaper on trips to Wimbledon+Tram.

Note that only ODTCs that include zone 2 are issued in zone ( Anytime
1-2, 1-3, 1-4, 1-5, 1-6, 2-6; Off-Peak 1-2, 1-4, 1-6, 2-6) so no 6, 5-6
or 3-6.

--
Mike D

On 14 Dec, 02:16, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
asdf wrote



On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:41:22 -0800 (PST), John B wrote:
...which solely leaves people with season Travelcards from outside
the
zones. Now, these are z123456,
Not all of them - you can get them to z6, z56, etc.

Cite to leaflet or Fare Manual ?

I (Surrey, SWT) have never been offered one - it would have been a lot
cheaper on trips to Wimbledon+Tram.

Note that only ODTCs that include zone 2 are issued in zone ( Anytime
1-2, 1-3, 1-4, 1-5, 1-6, 2-6; Off-Peak 1-2, 1-4, 1-6, 2-6) so no 6, 5-6
or 3-6.

--
Mike D

Season and one-day are likely to be different. Seasons usually offer
a lot more combinations, although I haven't had to try the examples
mentioned.

Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
asdf wrote

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:41:22 -0800 (PST), John B wrote:

...which solely leaves people with season Travelcards from outside
the zones. Now, these are z123456,

Not all of them - you can get them to z6, z56, etc.

Cite to leaflet or Fare Manual ?

I (Surrey, SWT) have never been offered one - it would have been a lot
cheaper on trips to Wimbledon+Tram.

Seasons allow all sorts of permutations, but 'outboundary' day return
travelcards from stations outside the zones are only available to Zones 1-6.

Paul S

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 08:13:23AM +0000, asdf wrote:

What about all the tourists? It's hard for many of them to understand
Oyster.

OEPs won't exactly help here.

Plus it would waste their time, and increase TfL's costs, if
everyone visiting London (even for a day) had to buy an Oyster card,
use it, then get their deposit refunded at a staffed ticket window.

I doubt many would bother getting it refunded, or know how to.

--
David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive

Are you feeling bored? depressed? slowed down? Evil Scientists may
be manipulating the speed of light in your vicinity. Buy our patented
instructional video to find out how, and maybe YOU can stop THEM

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 05:27:04AM -0800, John B wrote:

But it hasn't made life *any worse* for people living in the areas
where it isn't accepted.

It has in areas where it is only *partially* accepted. Areas where
Oyster is hard to get hold of have had their cash bus fares approximately
doubled.

--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

All praise the Sun God
For He is a Fun God
Ra Ra Ra!

On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 05:15:22PM +0000, Neil Williams wrote:

So the solution is:-
1. All NR stations in the Zones need the equipment to issue Oyster.

Not just to sell Oyster tickets, but to issue the *cards* too.

I don't recall anyone answering my question about whether they would
start doing this from January, and also whether auto-topup would also
work at NR stations.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "internet beard fetish club"

Planckton: n, the smallest possible living thing