On 3 Jan, 01:37, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 19:17:55 -0600,
wrote:





A FoI request to TfL has revealed some more information about OEPs.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...ension_permits

Of interest is a full list of National Rail self-service machines
where PAYG can be added.

The added stations can be used to pick up online purchases and auto-
topup from the 13th January.

The OEP document highlights a nightmare possibility with OEPs that hadn't
previously occurred to me:

"Examples
TICKET HELD * FROM * * * * * *TO * * * * * * * * * *OEP REQUIRED?
...
Zones 1-4 * * GOODGE STREET * HARROW & WEALDSTONE * YES - if using TOC
...
Does it apply to LU journeys?
No. There is no change to the arrangements for use of PAYG on LU or other
TfL services, but an OEP could apply if the customer is using a TOC
service serving one of our stations."

So, here am I travelling out from Zone 1 to Harrow and Wealdstone which is
in Zone 5. I change trains somewhere North of Queen's Park and want to
take the first train which could be a Bakerloo or NR train. Only on the
latter do I need and OEP!

Or does this only apply to LM and SN and not to LO and would therefore
only be a problem if I changed at Wembley Central (at the limited times
when that is possible to get to Harrow and Wealdstone)?

It's getting nearly as stupid as the Cambridgeshire Guided Busway
ticketing arrangements where you have to buy an operator-specific ticket
from a machine at a bus stop before boarding without knowing for sure
which operator's bus will arrive first.

It's not that bad... if you get an OEP but end up travelling entirely
on services that don't require an OEP, you haven't lost anything
(except the time you spent queueing and getting the OEP).-

And anyway, I think it must only apply if using LM or SN, in which
case one won't often have the choice of "what turns up first".

But it does show the complete nonsense of it, because surely the issue
is not which train you travel in, but whether you are potentially
travelling to an unbarriered NR station without needing to pass
through any barrier till the destination?

If any such stations are reachable via the Bakerloo, shouldn't one
need an OEP to travel on the Bakerloo with a travelcard?

Shouldn't you also have one if you travel on the Central with a
travelcard, because you can't prove you don't intend to change at
Stratford? (And plenty of other examples.)

On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:36:01 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:

And anyway, I think it must only apply if using LM or SN, in which
case one won't often have the choice of "what turns up first".

But it does show the complete nonsense of it, because surely the issue
is not which train you travel in, but whether you are potentially
travelling to an unbarriered NR station without needing to pass
through any barrier till the destination?

The issue *is* which train you travel in, because TfL are prepared to
take the revenue risk that you might not touch out, and the TOCs
aren't.

On 3 Jan, 03:34, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:36:01 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:
And anyway, I think it must only apply if using LM or SN, in which
case one won't often have the choice of "what turns up first".

But it does show the complete nonsense of it, because surely the issue
is not which train you travel in, but whether you are potentially
travelling to an unbarriered NR station without needing to pass
through any barrier till the destination?

The issue *is* which train you travel in, because TfL are prepared to
take the revenue risk that you might not touch out, and the TOCs
aren't.

Oyster charges between points, not according to which train you sit
in, which can't be known.

The reason for OEPs is supposed to be the number of unbarriered NR
stations that will be part of the scheme. The revenue is distributed
according to where PAYG starts and finishes, surely? If I touch in at
Oxford Circus and out at Harrow & Wealdstone, the revenue isn't
distributed differently if I change at Wembley Central to LM.