I tried one of the ticket machines at Euston main line today and it
didn't have an OEP option on there but it's certainly very easy to do
on an Underground ticket machine so I did that this afternoon at
Cannon Street and I touched out no problem at Charlton and it charged
me the correct fare of £1.40. On my way back though I was going to
Greenwich and the Oyster readers on the platform which gives step free
interchange to the DLR were both out of service so I had to go
downstairs to find one.

I think if these OEPs are going to work then there's going to have to
be some publicity (strategically placed posters etc.) as I know very
few Oyster Travelcard holders who know anything about them.

In article
,
(Rupert Candy) wrote:

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote:

Just a quick live update from this morning:

From a short journey today:

Forest Gate - poster up telling us we can now use PAYG on national
rail. No Oyster pad has been added to the one ticket machine at the
station (even though it has a circle that is clearly intended for one)
or at the ticket office window and there were no posters or leaflets
about Oyster either in the ticket office or in the hallway down to
the platforms. Absolutely nothing whatsoever about OEPs.

(Oh and the station was closed last week for cable repairs so this is
the first operating day with PAYG.)

Similarly, Vauxhall (SWT) and Putney have no Oyster selling facilities,
people at Vauxhall being directed to the tube station (not too easy with a
bicycle). At least there was a poster telling people that and I had enough
PAYG credit to get me to Putney. Luckily I know a handy ticket stop nearby
there so was able to get my top-ups as desired.

Stratford - continues to be chaotic because the TfL and National
Express delineation isn't always clear to Joe Public. The NX machines
in the ticket hall don't have Oyster pads so the queues for the TfL
machines and window will just get even longer. I looked hard but
couldn't find any leaflet about Oyster on National Rail on either the
TfL or NX racks.

So far two stations, including one of the main ones in East London,
and zero information.

Shepherds Bush (Central) had a Using Oyster on National Rail
Tfl-produced leaflet dated 2nd Jan. It has the same wording as the
website plus a fold-out of the new Oyster Rail Services map (+
zones). -- Current nearest station: Victoria

That leaflet was available at Vauxhall and there were clear posters at
Putney about Oyster on NR and about OEPs.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 4 Jan, 11:01, Rupert Candy wrote:
MIG wrote:
Presumably it only ever registered that it was valid at the point
where touched. *That's all they seem to do elsewhere.

Just a quick live update from this morning:

- Oyster pad not yet active on ticket machine at Bromley North (and
software not yet updated). Just as well I didn't need an OEP.

- Oyster reader by entrance had 'Out of use' sticker but gave me a green
light and 'Enter' anyway (with a season)

- New Waterloo East gateline at the top of the stairs to Waterloo Rd -
but main access to station still ungated!

- Touched out at new standalone readers on the Waterloo footbridge. Big
new overhead sign 'Card users touch here'.

So clearly not all parts of the network were quite ready for 2nd Jan...

--
Current nearest station:

The Southwark exit at Waterloo East now has a National Rail gateline
as well as the TfL gateline. There is a small area between the two
with TfL and Southeastern self service machines, creating a strange
"landside" area with no exit other than via a gateline. The
Southeasten machine can top up PAYG, but I couldn't see any provision
for OEPs.

Neil Williams wrote:

...and would open any barrier in London zones 1-3, but if an inspector
came around to check then a PF would be due if the appropriate Oyster
was not being carried (not touched in). Thus there would be no need
to touch in at all, and the problem would go away.

How would you solve the other problem of people with season ticket
travelcards starting journeys outside London? e.g. if I go to stay the night
in Surrey, I cannot get an overnight return extension - I have to buy the
ticket on the day. So I'll get one to the first station inside the zones but
do I then have to jump off at that station, touch on a pad and then waste
time at a remote outpost waiting for the next train?

Paul Terry wrote:

So the interesting legal point - can a TOC legally enforce a penalty fare
if
it can be shown that the correct ticket was not available to passengers at
the starting station?

Probably not (or at least the PF can be appealed against). The DfT make
the situation clear he

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/legis...policya?page=7

Those rules don't explicitly take into account the nuances of the machines
not being able to issue all reasonable tickets. The touch screen machines
can generally handle any turn up & go fare, and the old button machines
usually had every single direct station and reasonable interchange on them,
with permit to travel machines covering some of the gaps, but nowadays a lot
of machines aren't

But with OEPs rapidly becoming available on automatic ticket machines
across London, it would probably be necessary to establish that the ticket
machine was broken and there was no other one available nearby.

Yes but as stated elsewhere on the thread there are a number of stations and
operators who don't have the Oyster pads on the machines - National Express
doesn't have them at Forest Gate or Stratford; Barking (which operator?)
didn't have them before Christmas. Okay Stratford has TfL machines as well
but the others, particularly Forest Gate which has only one machine and
isn't staffed in late evenings, don't. I'm not sure the presence of nearby
newsagents with different opening times who have Oyster facilities would
suffice as alternatives. (And also yesterday when in one of the ones here I
asked for reference if I could get an "Oyster Extension Permit" there and
the man at the till looked at me blankly so I said that it seemed to only be
available at stations. So a further question is whether passengers can be
held responsible if they can't get the product because somewhere along the
line the information has not reached the till staff.)

So the scenario is not the deliberate or accidental dodger being caught
unaware but rather the conscientious passenger who is unable to get the OEP
because it's not easily available and certainly not at the station where
they're beginning their journey.

On 5 Jan, 14:24, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
...and would open any barrier in London zones 1-3, but if an inspector
came around to check then a PF would be due if the appropriate Oyster
was not being carried (not touched in). *Thus there would be no need
to touch in at all, and the problem would go away.

How would you solve the other problem of people with season ticket
travelcards starting journeys outside London? e.g. if I go to stay the night
in Surrey, I cannot get an overnight return extension - I have to buy the
ticket on the day. So I'll get one to the first station inside the zones but
do I then have to jump off at that station, touch on a pad and then waste
time at a remote outpost waiting for the next train?

Yes, and it's perfectly acceptable to have to do that, just as it
previously was on LU when you had travelcards from NR.

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
Paul Terry wrote:

So the interesting legal point - can a TOC legally enforce a penalty
fare
if
it can be shown that the correct ticket was not available to
passengers at
the starting station?

Probably not (or at least the PF can be appealed against). The DfT
make
the situation clear he

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/legis...policya?page=7

Those rules don't explicitly take into account the nuances of the
machines
not being able to issue all reasonable tickets. The touch screen
machines
can generally handle any turn up & go fare, and the old button
machines
usually had every single direct station and reasonable interchange on
them,
with permit to travel machines covering some of the gaps, but nowadays
a lot
of machines aren't

But with OEPs rapidly becoming available on automatic ticket
machines
across London, it would probably be necessary to establish that the
ticket
machine was broken and there was no other one available nearby.

Yes but as stated elsewhere on the thread there are a number of
stations and
operators who don't have the Oyster pads on the machines - National
Express
doesn't have them at Forest Gate or Stratford; Barking (which
operator?)
didn't have them before Christmas. Okay Stratford has TfL machines as
well
but the others, particularly Forest Gate which has only one machine
and
isn't staffed in late evenings, don't. I'm not sure the presence of
nearby
newsagents with different opening times who have Oyster facilities
would
suffice as alternatives. (And also yesterday when in one of the ones
here I
asked for reference if I could get an "Oyster Extension Permit" there
and
the man at the till looked at me blankly so I said that it seemed to
only be
available at stations. So a further question is whether passengers can
be
held responsible if they can't get the product because somewhere along
the
line the information has not reached the till staff.)

Just to add to this-the Southeastern machines at Bromley South have now
had their Oyster pads enabled. The machines allow top-up and purchase of
weekly seasons, but no setting of OEPs. Brilliant work.
--
Current nearest station: Peckham Rye

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:24:55 -0000, Tim Roll-Pickering
wrote:

Neil Williams wrote:

...and would open any barrier in London zones 1-3, but if an inspector
came around to check then a PF would be due if the appropriate Oyster
was not being carried (not touched in). Thus there would be no need
to touch in at all, and the problem would go away.

How would you solve the other problem of people with season ticket
travelcards starting journeys outside London? e.g. if I go to stay the
night
in Surrey, I cannot get an overnight return extension - I have to buy the
ticket on the day. So I'll get one to the first station inside the zones
but
do I then have to jump off at that station, touch on a pad and then waste
time at a remote outpost waiting for the next train?

Do you have a travelcard for any zones? If you do, I would say you are
good to stay on the train.


--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote

How would you solve the other problem of people with season ticket
travelcards starting journeys outside London? e.g. if I go to stay
the night
in Surrey, I cannot get an overnight return extension - I have to buy
the
ticket on the day.

no overnight return (unless you are 35+ miles out perhaps)

but

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...asing_tickets/

You can buy Anytime and Off-Peak tickets up to a year in advance,
however you'll only be able to buy these over the telephone or at a
station ticket office.
==

So you can buy a BZ6 extension for today and a single for tomorrow

(a) before you start

or (b) the "ticket for tomorrow"after arrival if the ticket office is
open
or (c) from the arrival station's ticket machine as a "ticket for
tomorrow" after 15:00


--
Mike D

In message , Tim Roll-Pickering
writes

How would you solve the other problem of people with season ticket
travelcards starting journeys outside London? e.g. if I go to stay the night
in Surrey, I cannot get an overnight return extension - I have to buy the
ticket on the day. So I'll get one to the first station inside the zones but
do I then have to jump off at that station, touch on a pad and then waste
time at a remote outpost waiting for the next train?

Assuming we are still talking about OEPs (the subject of the thread),
you don't need one for the return journey. If your season is on Oyster,
you have PAYG and your Surrey station is within the London zonal system,
the Oyster system will work out the correct return fare.

--
Paul Terry