On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:21:03 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:

On 3 Jan, 15:32, asdf wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:20:19 -0800 (PST), Daniel wrote:
It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR
stations can issue OEPs?

Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard
holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two
(or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline
en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket
could see some non-optimal charges as well.

Yes, I think that could happen. For example, the holder of a Z23
Travelcard wishes to travel from Finsbury Park (Z2) to Thornton Heath
(Z4), changing at Moorgate (Z1) and Balham (Z2). An OEP is needed from
the start of the journey, due to starting at a LU station and
travelling out-of-zone on FCC. However, this OEP is removed by the
touch-out at Balham (LU) (due to having travelled out-of-zone), so a
second OEP needs to be added in order to avoid a PF when travelling
out-of-zone (again...) to Thornton Heath on Southern.

Would it be removed at Balham though? Balham is in the zones and the
route could have been via Finsbury Park. It doesn't seem likely that
it would work that way based on assumed route unless you touched out
at an NR-only station in zone 1.

Hmm. If that's the case it means that if you have a Z23 Travelcard and
want to travel from Kentish Town to Herne Hill, you need an OEP for
the journey, but the OEP is not removed at the end of the journey, so
you're stuck with it and have to go out of your way to get rid of it.

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:21:03 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:

On 3 Jan, 15:32, asdf wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:20:19 -0800 (PST), Daniel wrote:
It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR
stations can issue OEPs?

Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard
holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two
(or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline
en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket
could see some non-optimal charges as well.

Yes, I think that could happen. For example, the holder of a Z23
Travelcard wishes to travel from Finsbury Park (Z2) to Thornton Heath
(Z4), changing at Moorgate (Z1) and Balham (Z2). An OEP is needed from
the start of the journey, due to starting at a LU station and
travelling out-of-zone on FCC. However, this OEP is removed by the
touch-out at Balham (LU) (due to having travelled out-of-zone), so a
second OEP needs to be added in order to avoid a PF when travelling
out-of-zone (again...) to Thornton Heath on Southern.

Would it be removed at Balham though? Balham is in the zones and the
route could have been via Finsbury Park. It doesn't seem likely that
it would work that way based on assumed route unless you touched out
at an NR-only station in zone 1.

Hmm. If that's the case it means that if you have a Z23 Travelcard and
want to travel from Kentish Town to Herne Hill, you need an OEP for
the journey, but the OEP is not removed at the end of the journey, so
you're stuck with it and have to go out of your way to get rid of it.

Ignoring OEPs for the moment, what happened previously when people with
doughnut shaped travelcard validity made a journey that crossed the central
area?

Paul S

On 4 Jan, 08:55, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"asdf" wrote in message

...





On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:21:03 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:

On 3 Jan, 15:32, asdf wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:20:19 -0800 (PST), Daniel wrote:
It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR
stations can issue OEPs?

Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard
holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two
(or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline
en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket
could see some non-optimal charges as well.

Yes, I think that could happen. For example, the holder of a Z23
Travelcard wishes to travel from Finsbury Park (Z2) to Thornton Heath
(Z4), changing at Moorgate (Z1) and Balham (Z2). An OEP is needed from
the start of the journey, due to starting at a LU station and
travelling out-of-zone on FCC. However, this OEP is removed by the
touch-out at Balham (LU) (due to having travelled out-of-zone), so a
second OEP needs to be added in order to avoid a PF when travelling
out-of-zone (again...) to Thornton Heath on Southern.

Would it be removed at Balham though? *Balham is in the zones and the
route could have been via Finsbury Park. *It doesn't seem likely that
it would work that way based on assumed route unless you touched out
at an NR-only station in zone 1.

Hmm. If that's the case it means that if you have a Z23 Travelcard and
want to travel from Kentish Town to Herne Hill, you need an OEP for
the journey, but the OEP is not removed at the end of the journey, so
you're stuck with it and have to go out of your way to get rid of it.

Ignoring OEPs for the moment, what happened previously when people with
doughnut shaped travelcard validity made a journey that crossed the central
area?

Presumably it only ever registered that it was valid at the point
where touched. That's all they seem to do elsewhere.

MIG wrote:
Presumably it only ever registered that it was valid at the point
where touched. That's all they seem to do elsewhere.

Just a quick live update from this morning:

- Oyster pad not yet active on ticket machine at Bromley North (and
software not yet updated). Just as well I didn't need an OEP.

- Oyster reader by entrance had 'Out of use' sticker but gave me a green
light and 'Enter' anyway (with a season)

- New Waterloo East gateline at the top of the stairs to Waterloo Rd -
but main access to station still ungated!

- Touched out at new standalone readers on the Waterloo footbridge. Big
new overhead sign 'Card users touch here'.

So clearly not all parts of the network were quite ready for 2nd Jan...


--
Current nearest station:

Rupert Candy wrote:
MIG wrote:
Presumably it only ever registered that it was valid at the point
where touched. That's all they seem to do elsewhere.

Just a quick live update from this morning:

- Oyster pad not yet active on ticket machine at Bromley North (and
software not yet updated). Just as well I didn't need an OEP.

- Oyster reader by entrance had 'Out of use' sticker but gave me a
green
light and 'Enter' anyway (with a season)

- New Waterloo East gateline at the top of the stairs to Waterloo Rd -
but main access to station still ungated!

- Touched out at new standalone readers on the Waterloo footbridge.
Big
new overhead sign 'Card users touch here'.

So clearly not all parts of the network were quite ready for 2nd
Jan...

The experiment continues- successfully set an OEP at one of the small
machines at Pimlico, and now on the way to Feltham via Vauxhall, where
we'll see what happens.
--
Current nearest station: Clapham Jn

On 4 Jan, 12:33, Rupert Candy wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote:
MIG wrote:
Presumably it only ever registered that it was valid at the point
where touched. *That's all they seem to do elsewhere.

Just a quick live update from this morning:

- Oyster pad not yet active on ticket machine at Bromley North (and
software not yet updated). Just as well I didn't need an OEP.

- Oyster reader by entrance had 'Out of use' sticker but gave me a
green
light and 'Enter' anyway (with a season)

- New Waterloo East gateline at the top of the stairs to Waterloo Rd -
but main access to station still ungated!

- Touched out at new standalone readers on the Waterloo footbridge.
Big
new overhead sign 'Card users touch here'.

So clearly not all parts of the network were quite ready for 2nd
Jan...

The experiment continues- successfully set an OEP at one of the small
machines at Pimlico, and now on the way to Feltham via Vauxhall, where
we'll see what happens.
--
Current nearest station: Clapham Jn-

Is Vauxhall outside your zones?

If not, the OEP won't be unset at Vauxhall (even if you exited via NR,
but you'd be exiting via LU presumably, which should never unset the
OEP, should it?).

If so, a completely out of zone journey will start at Vauxhall NR and
not need the OEP, leaving it intact presumably (how does one tell?).

MIG wrote:
On 4 Jan, 12:33, Rupert Candy wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote:
MIG wrote:
Presumably it only ever registered that it was valid at the
point
where touched. That's all they seem to do elsewhere.

Just a quick live update from this morning:

- Oyster pad not yet active on ticket machine at Bromley North
(and
software not yet updated). Just as well I didn't need an OEP.

- Oyster reader by entrance had 'Out of use' sticker but gave me a
green
light and 'Enter' anyway (with a season)

- New Waterloo East gateline at the top of the stairs to Waterloo
Rd -
but main access to station still ungated!

- Touched out at new standalone readers on the Waterloo
footbridge.
Big
new overhead sign 'Card users touch here'.

So clearly not all parts of the network were quite ready for 2nd
Jan...

The experiment continues- successfully set an OEP at one of the
small
machines at Pimlico, and now on the way to Feltham via Vauxhall,
where
we'll see what happens.
--
Current nearest station: Clapham Jn-

Is Vauxhall outside your zones?

If not, the OEP won't be unset at Vauxhall (even if you exited via NR,
but you'd be exiting via LU presumably, which should never unset the
OEP, should it?).

If so, a completely out of zone journey will start at Vauxhall NR and
not need the OEP, leaving it intact presumably (how does one tell?).

Vauxhall is in my zones (1-5) and is an OOSI so presumably entering
through the NR gateline shouldn't have any effect on the OEP.

At Feltham I was deducted £1.30, which was presumably the desired
effect. Might have a look at my journey history later.
--
Current nearest station: Heathrow Central

Rupert Candy wrote:

Just a quick live update from this morning:

From a short journey today:

Forest Gate - poster up telling us we can now use PAYG on national rail. No
Oyster pad has been added to the one ticket machine at the station (even
though it has a circle that is clearly intended for one) or at the ticket
office window and there were no posters or leaflets about Oyster either in
the ticket office or in the hallway down to the platforms. Absolutely
nothing whatsoever about OEPs.

(Oh and the station was closed last week for cable repairs so this is the
first operating day with PAYG.)

Stratford - continues to be chaotic because the TfL and National Express
delineation isn't always clear to Joe Public. The NX machines in the ticket
hall don't have Oyster pads so the queues for the TfL machines and window
will just get even longer. I looked hard but couldn't find any leaflet about
Oyster on National Rail on either the TfL or NX racks.

So far two stations, including one of the main ones in East London, and zero
information.

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote:

Just a quick live update from this morning:

From a short journey today:

Forest Gate - poster up telling us we can now use PAYG on national
rail. No
Oyster pad has been added to the one ticket machine at the station
(even
though it has a circle that is clearly intended for one) or at the
ticket
office window and there were no posters or leaflets about Oyster
either in
the ticket office or in the hallway down to the platforms. Absolutely
nothing whatsoever about OEPs.

(Oh and the station was closed last week for cable repairs so this is
the
first operating day with PAYG.)

Stratford - continues to be chaotic because the TfL and National
Express
delineation isn't always clear to Joe Public. The NX machines in the
ticket
hall don't have Oyster pads so the queues for the TfL machines and
window
will just get even longer. I looked hard but couldn't find any leaflet
about
Oyster on National Rail on either the TfL or NX racks.

So far two stations, including one of the main ones in East London,
and zero
information.

Shepherds Bush (Central) had a Using Oyster on National Rail
Tfl-produced leaflet dated 2nd Jan. It has the same wording as the
website plus a fold-out of the new Oyster Rail Services map (+ zones).
--
Current nearest station: Victoria

I tried one of the ticket machines at Euston main line today and it
didn't have an OEP option on there but it's certainly very easy to do
on an Underground ticket machine so I did that this afternoon at
Cannon Street and I touched out no problem at Charlton and it charged
me the correct fare of £1.40. On my way back though I was going to
Greenwich and the Oyster readers on the platform which gives step free
interchange to the DLR were both out of service so I had to go
downstairs to find one.

I think if these OEPs are going to work then there's going to have to
be some publicity (strategically placed posters etc.) as I know very
few Oyster Travelcard holders who know anything about them.