wrote

No, that's just expensive. A rip-off would be something like a
return
journey Local--KX, a 13 min turnaround and return KX-Local. Rip-off,
because I got charged £4 on (return) entry at KX and again at Local
station. Then spend 20min on hold + 10m in conversation at 5p/min to

And where can I find out about the time-out or whatever at KX that
deliberately and unfairly overcharged me (twice!) for a completely
unremarkable journey. where I touched in/out just fine? Nowhere that
I can see.

Surely you read this NG as well as posting to it (VBG) ?

Kings Cross has always been a OSI (Out of station interchange), as
discussed here, with from 15 to 40 minutes allowed to pass another
gateline as part of the same journey. So with a "13 min turnaround" it
seems likely that you were trapped by the maximum journey time rule and
charged for two incomplete journeys

To check needs the zone of "Local" since this changed from the old
fixed 2.5 hours to formulas like (M-F) 70 minutes plus 10 minutes per
zone and IIRC this has just been amended a bit.

One poster showed that touching in on a bus would terminate a journey !

Too much for one booklet ?

$$ there will be a series of "Oyster customer guides" (4 in total) to
$$ replace the traditional fares booklet (deemed to be too complicated
for
$$ passengers to understand). The guides should be available at LU
stations
$$ from (4/Jan/10).

Given the vastly increased OSIs (with the extension of Oyster PAYG to
National Rail) and the changes in the maximum journey time rule more
people are going to be caught and charged £8 /OR/, if lucky, charged
half price.

ps, there are several Oyster Helpline numbers, another leaflet is
needed to select the cheapest for your circumstances, time of day etc.
but 0845 could be 2p/min or less from a BT landline when I last checked
http://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/


--
Mike D

Recliner wrote:

The point I was making was that you found the roads undrivable, so why
would it be any different for Tube staff. You're lucky they could even
get in to work, in order to get you to work.

Don't tube depots have sleeping quarters especially for weather like this?

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

"Basil Jet" wrote in message

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Basil Jet
writes
Recliner wrote:

The point I was making was that you found the roads undrivable, so
why would it be any different for Tube staff. You're lucky they
could even get in to work, in order to get you to work.

Don't tube depots have sleeping quarters especially for weather like
this?

Now you're being silly; why would they?

I thought I read that Neasden had some.

In any case, you need more than drivers to run the Tube. Without station
staff, line controllers, signalling staff, etc, etc, the line/station
won't open.

In message , Basil Jet
writes
Recliner wrote:

The point I was making was that you found the roads undrivable, so why
would it be any different for Tube staff. You're lucky they could even
get in to work, in order to get you to work.

Don't tube depots have sleeping quarters especially for weather like this?

Now you're being silly; why would they?
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
news:01ca8ecc$a067a4e0$LocalHost@default
wrote

No, that's just expensive. A rip-off would be something like a
return journey Local--KX, a 13 min turnaround and return KX-Local.
Rip-off, because I got charged £4 on (return) entry at KX and again
at Local station. Then spend 20min on hold + 10m in conversation at
5p/min to

And where can I find out about the time-out or whatever at KX that
deliberately and unfairly overcharged me (twice!) for a completely
unremarkable journey. where I touched in/out just fine? Nowhere that
I can see.

Surely you read this NG as well as posting to it (VBG) ?

Kings Cross has always been a OSI (Out of station interchange), as
discussed here, with from 15 to 40 minutes allowed to pass another
gateline as part of the same journey. So with a "13 min turnaround" it
seems likely that you were trapped by the maximum journey time rule
and charged for two incomplete journeys

Wouldn't simply returning to the original station have the same effect?
But, if Paul had returned to a station one stop away, within the now
very complicated maximum time rules, he might have had a bargain
instead.

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Basil Jet
writes
Recliner wrote:

The point I was making was that you found the roads undrivable, so
why would it be any different for Tube staff. You're lucky they
could even get in to work, in order to get you to work.

Don't tube depots have sleeping quarters especially for weather like
this?

Now you're being silly; why would they?

I thought I read that Neasden had some.

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

On 6 Jan, 12:25, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:04:30 -0000

"Recliner" wrote:
wrote in message

Had to get the tube to work today for obvious reasons. Nice to see a
2.80 fare has gone up to 3.10. And for that extra 30p I get a 15
minute delay
on the central line due to some signal failure or other. Oh what a
surprise.

Pathetic bloody system.

The 'obvious reasons' presumably being that the Tube was working and the
roads were unusable? *I wonder how the Tube staff got to work? *You
should, at least, be pleased that they succeeded.

Yes, no doubt getting up at 4am in a blizzard isn't much fun. But then thats
the nature of the career they chose. As a passenger all I'm concerned about
is why the service is still ****. And more to the point why does a signal
failure matter on an ATO line anyway? Either the ATO is working or it isn't.
If it isn't why can't they just drive the trains manually?

Or is signal failure a euphamism for total **** up?

I thought "signal failure" generally meant "failsafe operation of
signals" in practice. So if there's a failure of the track circuits
or whotnot, the signals won't allow anything to move.

Recliner wrote
....
"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote

Kings Cross has always been a OSI (Out of station interchange), as
discussed here, with from 15 to 40 minutes allowed to pass another
gateline as part of the same journey. So with a "13 min turnaround"
it
seems likely that you were trapped by the maximum journey time rule
and charged for two incomplete journeys

Wouldn't simply returning to the original station have the same
effect?
But, if Paul had returned to a station one stop away, within the now
very complicated maximum time rules, he might have had a bargain
instead.

Not sure, lacking experimental data, but provided you took at least 15
minutes I thought you were just charged for a 1 zone excepyt that if
the OSI made it a continuous journey the logic for the pink route
validators may have noted a journey via zone 1, hee !

Various people have done a touch in/out just to collect, variously, a
online top-up, set up auto top-up or go home to collect something so
maybe the 15 minutes is for the second entry as an anti-passback
measure ?

--
Mike D

On Wed, 6 Jan 2010, d wrote:

Had to get the tube to work today for obvious reasons. Nice to see a 2.80
fare has gone up to 3.10. And for that extra 30p I get a 15 minute delay
on the central line due to some signal failure or other. Oh what a surprise.

Pathetic bloody system.

Get a bike.

Then get on yer bike.

tom

--
Verbing weirds language.

Paul Corfield wrote:
Well yes but OSIs have "sides" that are logically paired. If you
re-enter the same side that you exited from it should not continue the
original journey. More detail on precisely what the OP did would
confirm whether the OSI acted properly or not.

Exitted old Northern line (etc) gateline; back through the
new one just to see what it was like (eg any more accessible
with luggage etc). Local station was Canada Water.

#Paul