In article
,
MIG wrote:

On 20 Jan, 10:35, Peter Beale wrote:
Peter Beale wrote:

* Êdimbourg or Pêkin

Sorry - Édimbourg or Pékin - I need to retype my list of ALT + numbers
in a larger font, the eyes aren't as good as they were! And yes, I do
know that accents are not essential on capitals.

Peter Beale

Why insert a letter m for the French? That's more likely to appear in
English pronunciation. In French, the sound before the b is a nasal
vowel, with the lips not closing till the b.

Because that's the way the French spell it. They'd pronounce it pretty
much the same way whether there was an 'm' or an 'n'. (One of) the
local phonetic spellings is Embra.

Sam

In article ,
Arthur Figgis wrote:

... Danes will use English
versions we don't use ourselves.

So which language is Copenhagen?

Sam

In message
Chris Tolley (ukonline really) wrote:

Peter Beale wrote:

There's nothing potentially racist in ... the British speaking of ...
Bombay!

Racism isn't the issue. It's colonialism.


Problem is Mumbai is a relic of an earlier form of colonialism.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/

On 20 Jan, 16:21, Sam Wilson wrote:
In article
,

*MIG wrote:
On 20 Jan, 10:35, Peter Beale wrote:
Peter Beale wrote:

* Êdimbourg or Pêkin

Sorry - Édimbourg or Pékin - I need to retype my list of ALT + numbers
in a larger font, the eyes aren't as good as they were! And yes, I do
know that accents are not essential on capitals.

Peter Beale

Why insert a letter m for the French? *That's more likely to appear in
English pronunciation. *In French, the sound before the b is a nasal
vowel, with the lips not closing till the b.

Because that's the way the French spell it. *They'd pronounce it pretty
much the same way whether there was an 'm' or an 'n'. *(One of) the
local phonetic spellings is Embra.

Well, I'd never seen it spelt that way. I'll take your word for it.
In such words, the presence of m or n is just a sign that it's a nasal
vowel, and it makes no difference to the pronunciation, eg "temps" is
pronounced the same as "tant".

On 20/01/2010 16:23, Sam Wilson wrote:
In articlemtOdnatdQZn7nMvWnZ2dnUVZ7q6dnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk,
Arthur wrote:

... Danes will use English
versions we don't use ourselves.

So which language is Copenhagen?

Dunno, but I wasn't convinced that them referring to Helsingør as
Elsinor in English was particularly helpful (they don't even go
overboard plugging the play. Which is lucky as my school did one set in
Verona). I think I've seem some more obscure examples too. But then I
suppose anywhere other than Copenhagen or Bilund is getting on for obscure.

I think I've seen a recent German text referring to "Kanton" rather than
"Guangzhou".
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 20/01/2010 10:26, Peter Beale wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 19/01/2010 18:57, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:59:18 +0000, Peter
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:

In other cases there was an established spelling but as applies in
this someone came along later and recorded/copied it incorrectly.
Rum/Rhum
Hannover/Hanover
Hazelton/Hazleton (Pennsylvania - allegedly misspelled in the
incorporation documents in 1857 and "it's too late to change it now")

Surely Hannover/Hanover is not a misspelling, but simply the English
version - cf Wien/Vienna and countless others.

IOW a stranger getting it wrong.

Was there such a thing as "right" at the time? And anyway, isn't it
potentially racist to suggest that a stranger's opinion is less valid
than a local opinion?

No-one's suggesting it is less valid - just that in another language it
may be rendered differently.

Try somewhere like the Grauniad.

Or do you always refer to Bangkok as Krung Thep Mahanakhon?

Why abbreviate it?

Wasn't Bangkok where the European trading post and port was, so
foreigners calling the whole modern city Bangkok is sort-of a bit like
someone calling London "Isle of Dogs" or something? Or maybe in modern
terms, "Heathrow".

There's nothing potentially racist in the French
speaking of Êdimbourg or Pêkin - or the British speaking of Peking or
Bombay!

Ah, but Britons are evil imperialists, while the French are foreigners.
There seemed to be more outrage at the Times style guide than there was
at the terrorists who attacked Victoria Term^H^H^H^H^H CST.

The French still seem to put an "s" on Lyon or Marseille in English, yet
we've given up.

Myanmar/Burma is one where it is impossible to win, as you are either an
agent of British colonialism or a supporter of the junta.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 20/01/2010 08:27, DW downunder wrote:

"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message
...
On 19/01/2010 18:57, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:59:18 +0000, Peter
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:

In other cases there was an established spelling but as applies in
this someone came along later and recorded/copied it incorrectly.
Rum/Rhum
Hannover/Hanover
Hazelton/Hazleton (Pennsylvania - allegedly misspelled in the
incorporation documents in 1857 and "it's too late to change it now")

Surely Hannover/Hanover is not a misspelling, but simply the English
version - cf Wien/Vienna and countless others.

IOW a stranger getting it wrong.

Was there such a thing as "right" at the time? And anyway, isn't it
potentially racist to suggest that a stranger's opinion is less valid
than a local opinion?

Admittedly nowadays in
many cases the "native" version is normally used - Brits used to refer
to Coblence, Mayence, Brunswick, Frankfort and the like.

With increased foreign travel or transport of goods it decreases the
chance of confusion caused by several versions of the same placename
cropping up from different directions. In some cases the reversion to
original is almost total; apart from Stornoway and the island names my
road atlas only has Gaelic placenames in Lewis/Harris.

And in other cases new "old" names are thought up to avenge some
mythical injustice or re-write an inconvenient bit of history.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

I'm with you on that, mate. In our case, supposedly Aboriginal names are
used in place of "British" names.

Aren't there some cases where it was German names which were replaced,
with Aboriginal names replacing Kaiserbillville or something? (cf
Kitchener, Ontario)

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In article , (Peter
Beale) wrote:

Peter Beale wrote:

Êdimbourg or Pêkin

Sorry - Édimbourg or Pékin - I need to retype my list of ALT +
numbers in a larger font, the eyes aren't as good as they were! And
yes, I do know that accents are not essential on capitals.

Acute accents are the easy ones in Windows, just Ctrl+Alt+letter.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote on 21 January 2010 00:13:56 ...
In article , (Peter
Beale) wrote:

Peter Beale wrote:

Êdimbourg or Pêkin

Sorry - Édimbourg or Pékin - I need to retype my list of ALT +
numbers in a larger font, the eyes aren't as good as they were! And
yes, I do know that accents are not essential on capitals.

Acute accents are the easy ones in Windows, just Ctrl+Alt+letter.

Or, more easily, AltGr+letter.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 20/01/2010 08:27, DW downunder wrote:
SNIP

I'm with you on that, mate. In our case, supposedly Aboriginal names are
used in place of "British" names.

Aren't there some cases where it was German names which were replaced,
with Aboriginal names replacing Kaiserbillville or something? (cf
Kitchener, Ontario)

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

At the beginning of WW1, like the renaming of the royal household to the
House of Windsor, Battenberg to Mounbatten and so on, patriotic Australia
did likewise. The replacement names may have included some with Aboriginal
language references, but AFAIK, most were a clear declaration of British
Imperial patriotism. As they say, that's "the way we were."

DW downunder