Peter Smyth wrote:
"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

The timetables for Mon 24th May are starting to creep into the
various journey planners now.
A search for times from Sydenham to New Cross gate on SN's website
produced
these, continuing to either London Bridge (SN) or Dalston Junction
(LO):

Typical Peak Hour:

08:09 08:19 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn 08:18 08:28 SN starts
Victoria, via Crystal Palace
08:28 08:38 SN starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:39 08:49 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:47 08:57 SN starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:54 09:04 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace

I'm having dificulty pinning down where some of the SN services start
from
unfortunately, maybe they just start at Norwood Jn?

Thought the times so far might be useful in the context of this
thread though...

The off-peak Southern service will be
2tph London Bridge - London Victoria (via Crystal Palace)
2tph London Bridge - Caterham

Thanks for that info, but it was really the morning peak service origin
stations that I couldn't easily work out.

I've done a bit more experimenting with the SN planner, and in the peak
hour, all four of the SN services running via Crystal Palace towards London
Bridge seem to come from Streatham Hill, but only the normal 2 tph all the
way from Victoria. Can the two odd services (the 3rd and 5th in list above)
be starting at Streatham Hill - as they don't appear at Balham at all?

Also, the SL RUS suggested there would be four services in the peak starting
at Norwood Jn, (I'd forgotten that) - but I can only find the two I've
listed above. Does the team agree that the Caterham service still runs, but
non stop from Norwood Jn in the peak period?

(I've deleted the LO services in the list above because they appear pretty
much as expected)...

Paul S

On 28 Feb, 19:51, "Peter Smyth" wrote:
"Paul Scott" wrote in message

...





MIG wrote:
On 22 Jan, 09:42, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Looking at all the evidence so far, the 'battering' of the service
only seems to be off peak. Assuming a reduction of 5 to 4 tph meets
the definition...

It does sound good (although not mentioning connections south) but I
suspect that it is sufficiently out of date not to be worth paying
too
much attention to. *A lot has happened in "a couple of years", not
least the election of a new Mayor, a major recession and some dodgy
deals*. *I don't simply take the word of the local campaigners
either,
who mention the reduction in service to LB (and Charing Cross) and
lack of connections south, but don't mention the ELL, but I recognise
that they have some justification for cynicism.

I guess we'll know soon enough when the timetable comes out.

The timetables for Mon 24th May are starting to creep into the various
journey planners now.
A search for times from Sydenham to New Cross gate on SN's website
produced
these, continuing to either London Bridge (SN) or Dalston Junction
(LO):

Typical Peak Hour:

08:01 *08:11 *LO *starts Crystal Palace
08:06 *08:16 *LO *starts West Croydon
08:09 *08:19 *SN *starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:14 *08:24 *LO *starts Crystal Palace
08:18 *08:28 *SN *starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace
08:22 *08:32 *LO *starts West Croydon
08:28 *08:38 *SN *starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:31 *08:41 *LO *starts Crystal Palace
08:36 *08:46 *LO *starts West Croydon
08:39 *08:49 *SN *starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:44 *08:54 *LO *starts Crystal Palace
08:47 *08:57 *SN *starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:51 *09:01 *LO *starts West Croydon
08:54 *09:04 *SN *starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace

Typical Off Peak Hour, LO origins alternate as befo

10:01 *10:11 *LO
10:06 *10:16 *LO
10:12 *10:22 *SN *starts ??? via Norwood Jn
10:16 *10:26 *LO
10:21 *10:31 *LO
10:24 *10:34 *SN *starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace
10:31 *10:41 *LO
10:36 *10:46 *LO
10:42 *10:52 *SN *starts ??? via Norwood Jn
10:46 *10:56 *LO
10:51 *11:01 *LO
10:54 *11:04 *SN *starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace

I'm having dificulty pinning down where some of the SN services start
from
unfortunately, maybe they just start at Norwood Jn?

Thought the times so far might be useful in the context of this thread
though...

The off-peak Southern service will be
2tph London Bridge - London Victoria (via Crystal Palace)
2tph London Bridge - Caterham

The current 2tph London Bridge - Sutton is replaced by a combination of
the 4tph LO Dalston Jn - West Croydon and extending the current 2tph
London Victoria - West Croydon (via Crystal Palace) to Sutton.

Peter Smyth


So if you can't get from London Bridge by a short route to West
Croydon any more, how is the connection at Norwood Junction to the
trains from Victoria?

I was imagining London Bridge to Sutton trains moving to the fast
tracks, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening.

MIG wrote:
On 28 Feb, 19:51, "Peter Smyth" wrote:
"Paul Scott" wrote in message

The timetables for Mon 24th May are starting to creep into the
various journey planners now.
A search for times from Sydenham to New Cross gate on SN's website
produced
these, continuing to either London Bridge (SN) or Dalston Junction
(LO):

Typical Peak Hour:

08:01 08:11 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:06 08:16 LO starts West Croydon
08:09 08:19 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:14 08:24 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:18 08:28 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace
08:22 08:32 LO starts West Croydon
08:28 08:38 SN starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:31 08:41 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:36 08:46 LO starts West Croydon
08:39 08:49 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:44 08:54 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:47 08:57 SN starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:51 09:01 LO starts West Croydon
08:54 09:04 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace

The current 2tph London Bridge - Sutton is replaced by a combination
of the 4tph LO Dalston Jn - West Croydon and extending the current
2tph London Victoria - West Croydon (via Crystal Palace) to Sutton.

So if you can't get from London Bridge by a short route to West
Croydon any more, how is the connection at Norwood Junction to the
trains from Victoria?

I was imagining London Bridge to Sutton trains moving to the fast
tracks, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening.

They are, but in the peaks only, AFAICT - I didn't reproduce anything like
the entire timetable, that bit above is JUST the Sydenham to New Cross Gate
section all station stoppers. There are also two tph from Sutton calling
all stations to West Croydon then Norwood Junction and London Bridge, and
there are alternate trains from West Croydon only running via Streatham and
Tulse Hill to London Bridge. But only in the morning peak, last departure
from WC at 0844. PM peak has about 2 tph of the reverse fast service.

Also, IIRC one of your earlier questions was about southbound travel from
NXG - the Caterham trains still call half hourly in the contra-peak
directions, and both ways offpeak, but they run fast from Norwood Jn in the
peak flow direction.

Paul S

"MIG" wrote in message
...
The off-peak Southern service will be
2tph London Bridge - London Victoria (via Crystal Palace)
2tph London Bridge - Caterham

The current 2tph London Bridge - Sutton is replaced by a combination
of
the 4tph LO Dalston Jn - West Croydon and extending the current 2tph
London Victoria - West Croydon (via Crystal Palace) to Sutton.

Peter Smyth


So if you can't get from London Bridge by a short route to West
Croydon any more, how is the connection at Norwood Junction to the
trains from Victoria?

I was imagining London Bridge to Sutton trains moving to the fast
tracks, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening.

The connections look good, e.g.

1220 SN London Bridge - Norwood Junction 1232 (to Tattenham Corner)
1235 LO Norwood Junction - West Croydon 1242 (from Dalston Jn)
or 1239 SN Norwood Junction - Sutton 1256 (from Victoria)

Peter Smyth

Peter Smyth wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message
...
The off-peak Southern service will be
2tph London Bridge - London Victoria (via Crystal Palace)
2tph London Bridge - Caterham

The current 2tph London Bridge - Sutton is replaced by a combination
of
the 4tph LO Dalston Jn - West Croydon and extending the current 2tph
London Victoria - West Croydon (via Crystal Palace) to Sutton.

Peter Smyth


So if you can't get from London Bridge by a short route to West
Croydon any more, how is the connection at Norwood Junction to the
trains from Victoria?

I was imagining London Bridge to Sutton trains moving to the fast
tracks, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening.

The connections look good, e.g.

1220 SN London Bridge - Norwood Junction 1232 (to Tattenham Corner)
1235 LO Norwood Junction - West Croydon 1242 (from Dalston Jn)
or 1239 SN Norwood Junction - Sutton 1256 (from Victoria)


You are still just looking at the ofpeaks though Peter. There are other
trains in the peaks, which I have touched on in other posts...

Paul S

On 1 Mar, 17:46, "Paul Scott" wrote:
MIG wrote:
On 28 Feb, 19:51, "Peter Smyth" wrote:
"Paul Scott" wrote in message

The timetables for Mon 24th May are starting to creep into the
various journey planners now.
A search for times from Sydenham to New Cross gate on SN's website
produced
these, continuing to either London Bridge (SN) or Dalston Junction
(LO):

Typical Peak Hour:

08:01 08:11 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:06 08:16 LO starts West Croydon
08:09 08:19 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:14 08:24 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:18 08:28 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace
08:22 08:32 LO starts West Croydon
08:28 08:38 SN starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:31 08:41 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:36 08:46 LO starts West Croydon
08:39 08:49 SN starts ??? via Norwood Jn
08:44 08:54 LO starts Crystal Palace
08:47 08:57 SN starts ??? via Crystal Palace
08:51 09:01 LO starts West Croydon
08:54 09:04 SN starts Victoria, via Crystal Palace
The current 2tph London Bridge - Sutton is replaced by a combination
of the 4tph LO Dalston Jn - West Croydon and extending the current
2tph London Victoria - West Croydon (via Crystal Palace) to Sutton.
So if you can't get from London Bridge by a short route to West
Croydon any more, how is the connection at Norwood Junction to the
trains from Victoria?

I was imagining London Bridge to Sutton trains moving to the fast
tracks, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening.

They are, but in the peaks only, AFAICT - I didn't reproduce anything like
the entire timetable, that bit above is JUST the Sydenham to New Cross Gate
section all station stoppers. *There are also two tph from Sutton calling
all stations to West Croydon then *Norwood Junction and London Bridge, and
there are alternate trains from West Croydon only running via Streatham and
Tulse Hill to London Bridge. *But only in the morning peak, last departure
from WC at 0844. PM peak has about 2 tph of the reverse fast service.

Right, I wasn't going completely mad then. I wonder if the Tulse Hill
route would take so long that a connection at Norwood Junction would
be better for West Croydon.


Also, IIRC one of your earlier questions was about southbound travel from
NXG - the Caterham trains still call half hourly in the contra-peak
directions, and both ways offpeak, but *they run fast from Norwood Jn in the
peak flow direction.

Paul S

Is that NXG or all the stations? It's just that NXG has platforms on
the fast tracks, but the rest before Norwood Junction don't.

MIG wrote:
On 1 Mar, 17:46, "Paul Scott" wrote:

They are, but in the peaks only, AFAICT - I didn't reproduce
anything like the entire timetable, that bit above is JUST the
Sydenham to New Cross Gate section all station stoppers. There are
also two tph from Sutton calling all stations to West Croydon then
Norwood Junction and London Bridge, and there are alternate trains
from West Croydon only running via Streatham and Tulse Hill to
London Bridge. But only in the morning peak, last departure from WC
at 0844. PM peak has about 2 tph of the reverse fast service.

Right, I wasn't going completely mad then. I wonder if the Tulse Hill
route would take so long that a connection at Norwood Junction would
be better for West Croydon.

Seems so. Offpeak its about 40 min via Tulse Hill, and around 23 min with a
change at Norwood Jn into a fast train, which compares well with the peak
time via Norwood which of around 19 min

Also, IIRC one of your earlier questions was about southbound travel
from NXG - the Caterham trains still call half hourly in the
contra-peak directions, and both ways offpeak, but they run fast
from Norwood Jn in the peak flow direction.

Is that NXG or all the stations? It's just that NXG has platforms on
the fast tracks, but the rest before Norwood Junction don't.

All stations. 0606, 0636 and half hourly until 1606 then there's a gap for
a few hours where they rub nonstop until Norwood Jn. Doesn't look as though
the fast line platforms will be used.

Paul S