On Jan 26, 4:07*pm, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
On 26 Jan, 10:14, DRH wrote:



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On Jan 26, 7:45*am, MIG wrote:

On 25 Jan, 17:41, Mizter T wrote:

On Jan 25, 4:37*pm, "John Salmon" wrote:

"MIG" wrote

And there's never been any proper reason for refusing to put day
travelcards on Oyster anyway. *It's extra money up front, and the punter
still buys into the Oyster system.
Instead of charging an uncapped maximum single fare for unresolved
journeys, the system could charge a day travelcard instead, and let the
punter use it as such thereafter.

That sounds like a very good idea. *Is there any technical reason why it
can't be done?

Why's it a good idea? There's absolutely no need or calling for it
(esp. now that PAYG is acceptable on NR) - if you want a Day
Travelcard, you get a Day Travelcard. Why totally muddy the waters by
offering it on Oyster, especially now.

(MIG used to call for this in the days before PAYG was accepted on NR,
but didn't ever seem to want to acknowledge just how confusing a
situation this would have created - factor in PAYG being available for
tickets extensions on the Tube but not most NR lines and it would have
just been totally daft. And if it ever had been available then the
impetus to actually get NR to accept PAYG would have been diminished -
that was the big prize that has finally been achieved, much to the
immense gratitude of travellers in London. I honestly can't believe
he's still bringing this suggestion up now, it's *totally* daft.)

Honestly, I think this needs a bit of explaining. *Why does it always
have to be give with one hand and take with the other?

The travelcard is probably the best and most revolutionary thing that
ever happened to transport usage in London. *It gave total
interavailability.

One slight downside was that you might not know for sure if you were
going to make enough journeys to make it worthwhile. *So *a "nice to
have" is a ticketing product that allows punters to build up
individual journeys to a maximum. *People were not crying out for
this, but one can see the advantage.

But no one ever ever ever called for day travelcards to be got rid
of. *There's no point having the icing on the cake if the price is
losing the cake.

Nor did they call for cash single fares to be hiked by over 100% or
for returns to be abolished.

What people want is stress-free transport, with interavailability,
minimal queueing and best value.

It is claimed that Oyster PAYG offfers this, but it's rather twisting
the truth to claim that therefore people want Oyster. *If it doesn't
deliever those Good Things, then what people want is something that
does. *That's still the travelcard in most situations.

The motives for introducing Oyster are very much to do with cash flow
and so on, not purely the convenience of the punter. *If there are
motives for getting Oyster into people's pockets, surely putting such
a popular product on it would be a way of doing that?

I entirely agree.

Putting the ODTC and in its variants on Oyster would obviate the need
for all/much of the PAYG infrastructure - yellow validators, pink
validators, OSIs, OEPs, Oyster helpline and all. *The system has
become ridiculously complex to the point where even those, like
posters here, with a reasonable understanding of it, can be foxed.

Another driving force in PAYG is of course, the suppliers of the IT
kit that supports it all. *The simple ODTC concept could be supported
by magcard technology. PAYG must require enormous computing resource
to apply an ever-increasing panoply of 'rules'.

As in many other cities/towns, here and abroad, if you are setting out
for a day's travel, making a value judgement between a "day rover" of
some sort, or paying individual fares, is almost always a no-brainer.
The day rover usually pays for itself after a few journeys and offers
a further benefit - convenience. The risk - that you might pay more
than if you paid individual journeys is slight, especially with TfL-
style high cash fares.

The mistake made with PAYG is to assume that cost is the only benefit
consumers seek. It isn't. *Many will happily trade cost off against
convenience (and a stress-free journey). *Which is what the ODTC
gives.

The big question is whether anyone at TfL is bold enough to point out
the emperor's lack of clothes, and call for PAYG to be scrapped before
it gets even more complex.

DRH

TfL's *next plans for ticketing are to move to an account based
scheme, where fares and capping would be calculated at the back office
level rather than at the gate / validator.

This would also make it possible for Mastercard Paypass / Visa Wave
cards and NFC mobile phones to be used.

seehttp://www.lafabriquedelacite.com/fabrique-de-la-cite/data/8384123E80....

Thanks. A useful post.

Aspirations and benefits (to TfL) seem clear. It's the way they're
implementing the steps towards 'a better customer experience' that
seem less certain.

DRH