On Jan 30, 5:42*pm, "Peter Smyth" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote in message
[snip]
Peter Smyth put in an FOI request for this info last year, and posted
the results here on utl - see (via gg):
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tr...4747db850d431f

(Of course I suppose these time limits might have changed since then,
but I haven't come across anything to suggest they have.)

They have been changed since then. The maximum journey times are now
helpfully on the TfL website at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/12421.aspx

Thanks - I must be losing it as I read that page last week, then
seemingly promptly forgot about it!

It's good that some more info about the workings of the system has
been made available publicly.

On 30 Jan, 17:42, "Peter Smyth" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

...





But I've also noticed it can be a bit generous -- sometimes, I've
been
charged the off-peak PAYG fare when my (precisely accurate) watch
showed
I'd touched in just inside peak time. There was also an occasion when
I
reckoned I'd exceeded the allowed two-hour time (because I changed my
mind about going to an event as my journey had been so slow that I'd
be
late), and wasn't penalised.

As you go on to say later, it's quite possible - likely, even - that
there's a degree of tolerance in the system w.r.t. the peak/ off-peak
period shift.

Regarding the maximum journey time limit - this changed from two hours
to two and a half hours some time ago (a year or two ago), and was
subsequently changed again - it's now no longer a unilaterally fixed
limit but is now variable - the variables being the length of the
journey (that is, how many zones you pass through), and also the time
and day of the journey (e.g. journeys on sundays are allowed more time
because of the less frequent service).

Peter Smyth put in an FOI request for this info last year, and posted
the results here on utl - see (via gg):
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tr...4747db850d431f

(Of course I suppose these time limits might have changed since then,
but I haven't come across anything to suggest they have.)

They have been changed since then. The maximum journey times are now
helpfully on the TfL website athttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/12421.aspx

Peter Smyth-

Interesting thing on that page: "You can't touch in on a pink card
reader to record the start or end of a journey."

That contradicts some assumptions that may have been made and is
surprising. I was guessing that they were standard readers that had a
different colour put on them where they were useful for route
validation.

So I wonder

a) if the statement isn't really true, but made in order to influence
behaviour

b) what it does if your first touch of the day is on a pink?

On Jan 30, 5:49*pm, MIG wrote:

On 30 Jan, 17:42, "Peter Smyth" wrote:
[snip]
They have been changed since then. The maximum journey times are now
helpfully on the TfL website at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/12421.aspx

Interesting thing on that page: "You can't touch in on a pink card
reader to record the start or end of a journey."

That contradicts some assumptions that may have been made and is
surprising. *I was guessing that they were standard readers that had a
different colour put on them where they were useful for route
validation.

So I wonder

a) if the statement isn't really true, but made in order to influence
behaviour

b) what it does if your first touch of the day is on a pink?

Well spotted. I'm a bit surprised too - perhaps we have (/ I have)
been guilty of making assumptions w.r.t. the pink validators. (I think
I said elsewhere I was 99.9% certain they'd provide the functionality
of yellow validators... not quite so sure now!)

I suppose an experiment is called for.

"Mizter T" wrote in message

On Jan 30, 1:16 pm, "Recliner" wrote:


Regarding the maximum journey time limit - this changed from two hours
to two and a half hours some time ago (a year or two ago), and was
subsequently changed again - it's now no longer a unilaterally fixed
limit but is now variable - the variables being the length of the
journey (that is, how many zones you pass through), and also the time
and day of the journey (e.g. journeys on sundays are allowed more time
because of the less frequent service).

Peter Smyth put in an FOI request for this info last year, and posted
the results here on utl - see (via gg):
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tr...4747db850d431f

(Of course I suppose these time limits might have changed since then,
but I haven't come across anything to suggest they have.)

It was still two hours when I inadvertently put it to the test. I would
have been cheesed off if it had penalised me, too, as I'd missed going
to a meeting because of the slow running of the trains and a further
delay at (of course) Edgware Road. I decided to go straight home
instead, and got there almost exactly two hours after entering the
system (so I got charged for a zone 6-3-4 journey, ignoring the fact
that I'd passed through zone 1 along the way).

In message
, MIG
writes

Interesting thing on that page: "You can't touch in on a pink card
reader to record the start or end of a journey."

That contradicts some assumptions that may have been made and is
surprising. I was guessing that they were standard readers that had a
different colour put on them where they were useful for route
validation.

So I wonder

a) if the statement isn't really true, but made in order to influence
behaviour

b) what it does if your first touch of the day is on a pink?

I could be wrong, but I thought pink readers were all within gated
areas, making it impossible to use them to start a journey without
touching in on a yellow reader to enter the system, or to end a journey
without touching out on a yellow reader to exit the barriers.
--
Paul Terry

On Jan 30, 6:41*pm, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
, MIG
writes

Interesting thing on that page: "You can't touch in on a pink card
reader to record the start or end of a journey."

That contradicts some assumptions that may have been made and is
surprising. *I was guessing that they were standard readers that had a
different colour put on them where they were useful for route
validation.

So I wonder

a) if the statement isn't really true, but made in order to influence
behaviour

b) what it does if your first touch of the day is on a pink?

I could be wrong, but I thought pink readers were all within gated
areas, making it impossible to use them to start a journey without
touching in on a yellow reader to enter the system, or to end a journey
without touching out on a yellow reader to exit the barriers.

Those at Kensington Olympia are not within a gated area and, along
with the one at West Brompton, are accessible via trains from outside
the zones without changing (from Milton Keynes). A similar situation,
regarding trains from outside the zones, occurs at Richmond, Wimbledon
and Stratford. My personal feeling is that the information given on
the link is incorrect, unless extra yellow validators have magically
appeared alongside the pink ones (which used to be yellow of course).

In message
,
Andy writes

Those at Kensington Olympia are not within a gated area and, along
with the one at West Brompton, are accessible via trains from outside
the zones without changing (from Milton Keynes). A similar situation,
regarding trains from outside the zones, occurs at Richmond, Wimbledon
and Stratford. My personal feeling is that the information given on
the link is incorrect, unless extra yellow validators have magically
appeared alongside the pink ones (which used to be yellow of course).

It's ages since I last used Olympia, but the pink validators at Richmond
and Wimbledon are within the gated area.

I take your point that someone arriving by NR might attempt to enter the
Oyster system at one of these interchange stations by touching in on a
pink validator. However, while the information on the cited webpage
might be incorrect, it is supported by information that TfL give in
their ticketing and travel guide about pink validators, which indicates
that you'd be liable for a maximum fare if you attempted to start or end
a journey by touching on a pink validator:

"You must still touch in on a yellow card reader (see clause 6.8.) at
the start of your journey and touch out at the end to ensure you pay the
correct Oyster single fare and avoid paying a maximum Oyster fare."
--
Paul Terry

On Jan 30, 7:31*pm, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
Andy writes

Those at Kensington Olympia are not within a gated area and, along
with the one at West Brompton, are accessible via trains from outside
the zones without changing (from Milton Keynes). A similar situation,
regarding trains from outside the zones, occurs at Richmond, Wimbledon
and Stratford. My personal feeling is that the information given on
the link is incorrect, unless extra yellow validators have magically
appeared alongside the pink ones (which used to be yellow of course).

It's ages since I last used Olympia, but the pink validators at Richmond
and Wimbledon are within the gated area.


There are no gates (yet) at Olympia. I don't know if all the
validators are pink though.

I take your point that someone arriving by NR might attempt to enter the
Oyster system at one of these interchange stations by touching in on a
pink validator. However, while the information on the cited webpage
might be incorrect, it is supported by information that TfL give in
their ticketing and travel guide about pink validators, which indicates
that you'd be liable for a maximum fare if you attempted to start or end
a journey by touching on a pink validator:

"You must still touch in on a yellow card reader (see clause 6.8.) at
the start of your journey and touch out at the end to ensure you pay the
correct Oyster single fare and avoid paying a maximum Oyster fare."

I have just sent an e-mail to TfL regarding this point. The pink
validators at West Brompton have just had a pink sticker put on top of
the yellow and there is no yellow alternative without leaving the
station and re-entering.

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

Based on my limited personal testing, I suspect that they're
programmed to be tolerant, so even if their clocks are a minute or
two out, the passenger won't have reason to complain. In other
words, perhaps the peak actually kicks in at, say, 16:02 and stops
at 18:58. Perhaps not on the same system, but platform clocks now
seem to be precisely correct (they may have individual
radio-controls, just like I have on my watch and clocks at home).

This thread wouldn't have started if clocks were not inconsistent, at
least between TfL and TOCs.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote in message

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

Based on my limited personal testing, I suspect that they're
programmed to be tolerant, so even if their clocks are a minute or
two out, the passenger won't have reason to complain. In other
words, perhaps the peak actually kicks in at, say, 16:02 and stops
at 18:58. Perhaps not on the same system, but platform clocks now
seem to be precisely correct (they may have individual
radio-controls, just like I have on my watch and clocks at home).

This thread wouldn't have started if clocks were not inconsistent, at
least between TfL and TOCs.

Actually, that's probably the key point: TfL and Chiltern presumably
don't synchronise their master clocks. Hopefully they're not just set
manually, but maybe they don't synch with GMT often enough.