On 28 Jan, 16:19, Mizter T wrote:
On Jan 28, 2:51*pm, martin wrote:

on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

To be clear, the story appears to specifically relate to a £1 *paper*
"platform ticket" which is required if one wants to use Southwark tube
station as a shortcut between Waterloo East and the main entrance of
Southwark tube station on the corner of The Cut and Blackfriars Road -
what's more, the story says that "Oyster and travelcard users are not
charged" - whether that definitely includes Oyster PAYG users is not
100% clear.

To understand this, you need to have some knowledge of the geography
here. The Waterloo East platforms are accessed via a high walkway from
Waterloo mainline station (with an additional entrance to this walkway
up several sets of stairs from Sandell Street). This leads one to an
overbridge on the western side of the platforms. The station is not
gated (at least it wasn't v recently).

However, there is also an entrance to Southwark tube station on the
eastern ends of the platform. This leads down to the undercroft of the
viaduct, which leads on to a hallway where there is a set of gates
that gains one access to the tube station, which one gets to by then
descending some escalators. This hallway is actually at street level,
but there's *no* exit to the street at all - it sits beside and a bit
under the southside of the viaduct, between Greet Street and Hatfields
(another street). The reason for this is that it was a condition of
the planning permission of Southwark tube station that there wasn't a
public entrance/exit here - it's a quasi-residential area, so the
thinking presumably was to keep it quieter.


There are actually now two sets of gates facing each other
(Southeastern and TfL) with a small no-mans-land area in between where
there are Southeastern and Tfl ticket machines

On Jan 28, 5:18*pm, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

On 28 Jan, 16:19, Mizter T wrote:

On Jan 28, 2:51*pm, martin wrote:

on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

To be clear, the story appears to specifically relate to a £1 *paper*
"platform ticket" which is required if one wants to use Southwark tube
station as a shortcut between Waterloo East and the main entrance of
Southwark tube station on the corner of The Cut and Blackfriars Road -
what's more, the story says that "Oyster and travelcard users are not
charged" - whether that definitely includes Oyster PAYG users is not
100% clear.

To understand this, you need to have some knowledge of the geography
here. The Waterloo East platforms are accessed via a high walkway from
Waterloo mainline station (with an additional entrance to this walkway
up several sets of stairs from Sandell Street). This leads one to an
overbridge on the western side of the platforms. The station is not
gated (at least it wasn't v recently).

However, there is also an entrance to Southwark tube station on the
eastern ends of the platform. This leads down to the undercroft of the
viaduct, which leads on to a hallway where there is a set of gates
that gains one access to the tube station, which one gets to by then
descending some escalators. This hallway is actually at street level,
but there's *no* exit to the street at all - it sits beside and a bit
under the southside of the viaduct, between Greet Street and Hatfields
(another street). The reason for this is that it was a condition of
the planning permission of Southwark tube station that there wasn't a
public entrance/exit here - it's a quasi-residential area, so the
thinking presumably was to keep it quieter.

There are actually now two sets of gates facing each other
(Southeastern and TfL) with a small no-mans-land area in between where
there are Southeastern and Tfl ticket machines

Thanks Matthew - I'm obviously out of date! That is at least a
straightforward, albeit slightly clunky, way of dealing with it.

I was imagining there either being standalone Oyster readers for
Waterloo East, or otherwise some complex arrangement whereby the LU
gates were programmed to take account of the possibility that the
journey might continue onwards on NR or LU depending on which side the
passenger arrived at. I think the chosen solution is probably for the
best (though it's also rather odd sounding!).

It's worth noting that if either set of gates is locked open for
whatever reason, e.g. no staff to attend to it (more likely to be the
Southeastern gates!) then pax using Oyster PAYG would still need to
negotiate both set of gates, i.e. touch-out on one set, then touch-in
again.

I remember finding some very bored Southeastern RPIs in the no-mans
land of the hall once - was a bit strange to have them request sight
of my ticket - which was actually an Oyster plus season Travelcard,
which one of them scanned with a handheld reader - then almost
immediately having to touch my Oyster on the LU gate.

I'm left wondering whether a PAYG user arriving on Southeastern who
then uses the shortcut through Southwark tube station (i.e. to get
straight out the other side) might well end up getting charged the
through NR+LU fare, rather than the NR fare. That's a simple enough
experiment to do... though I'm never quite sure when the Waterloo East
entrance to Southwark tube station is open, as it's closed later in
the evening and also maybe for some of the weekend.l

Any idea if Waterloo East now has gates on the main way via the high
level walkway nowadays?

Mizter T wrote

I'm left wondering whether a PAYG user arriving on Southeastern who
then uses the shortcut through Southwark tube station (i.e. to get
straight out the other side) might well end up getting charged the
through NR+LU fare, rather than the NR fare. That's a simple enough
experiment to do... though I'm never quite sure when the Waterloo East
entrance to Southwark tube station is open, as it's closed later in
the evening and also maybe for some of the weekend.l

Since it's an OSI that links it to another thread !

Any idea if Waterloo East now has gates on the main way via the high
level walkway nowadays?

I thought it always had, I certainly remember going though a gateline
to and from Waterloo on rare visits long ago.

--
Mike D

On 28 Jan, 23:47, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
Mizter T wrote

I'm left wondering whether a PAYG user arriving on Southeastern who

then uses the shortcut through Southwark tube station (i.e. to get
straight out the other side) might well end up getting charged the
through NR+LU fare, rather than the NR fare. That's a simple enough
experiment to do... though I'm never quite sure when the Waterloo East
entrance to Southwark tube station is open, as it's closed later in
the evening and also maybe for some of the weekend.l

Since it's an OSI that links it to another thread !

Any idea if Waterloo East now has gates on the main way via the high

level walkway nowadays?

I thought it always had, I certainly remember going though a gateline
to and from Waterloo on rare visits long ago.

--
Mike D

Revenue staff used to locate themselves in the corridor to platforms B
to D and separately beyond the help point going to platform A. I
never remember seeing Revenue staff at the exit to the Jubilee Line.

The top area can get rather crowded given the help point, departure
boards and ticket machines. Have the ticket machines been resited on
the high level walkway with the installation of barriers? I'll have
to pass through some time.

On 28 Jan 2010 23:47:10 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:

Mizter T wrote

I'm left wondering whether a PAYG user arriving on Southeastern who
then uses the shortcut through Southwark tube station (i.e. to get
straight out the other side) might well end up getting charged the
through NR+LU fare, rather than the NR fare. That's a simple enough
experiment to do... though I'm never quite sure when the Waterloo East
entrance to Southwark tube station is open, as it's closed later in
the evening and also maybe for some of the weekend.l

Since it's an OSI that links it to another thread !

Any idea if Waterloo East now has gates on the main way via the high
level walkway nowadays?

I thought it always had, I certainly remember going though a gateline
to and from Waterloo on rare visits long ago.

It does not have gates. Presumably there is not enough room for an
adequate number. I assume Oyster validators have now appeared there.
--
Peter Lawrence

Mizter T wrote:


Thanks Matthew - I'm obviously out of date! That is at least a
straightforward, albeit slightly clunky, way of dealing with it.

I was imagining there either being standalone Oyster readers for
Waterloo East, or otherwise some complex arrangement whereby the LU
gates were programmed to take account of the possibility that the
journey might continue onwards on NR or LU depending on which side the
passenger arrived at. I think the chosen solution is probably for the
best (though it's also rather odd sounding!).

It's worth noting that if either set of gates is locked open for
whatever reason, e.g. no staff to attend to it (more likely to be the
Southeastern gates!) then pax using Oyster PAYG would still need to
negotiate both set of gates, i.e. touch-out on one set, then touch-in
again.

I remember finding some very bored Southeastern RPIs in the no-mans
land of the hall once - was a bit strange to have them request sight
of my ticket - which was actually an Oyster plus season Travelcard,
which one of them scanned with a handheld reader - then almost
immediately having to touch my Oyster on the LU gate.

I'm left wondering whether a PAYG user arriving on Southeastern who
then uses the shortcut through Southwark tube station (i.e. to get
straight out the other side) might well end up getting charged the
through NR+LU fare, rather than the NR fare. That's a simple enough
experiment to do... though I'm never quite sure when the Waterloo East
entrance to Southwark tube station is open, as it's closed later in
the evening and also maybe for some of the weekend.l

Any idea if Waterloo East now has gates on the main way via the high
level walkway nowadays?

Nope - there is a mini gateline at the top of the stairs to Sandell St,
but no gates on the bridge to Waterloo (or at the bottom of the
escalators), just validators where the bridge joins the Waterloo East
'ticket hall'. I presume there isn't room anywhere to install the number
of gates that would be needed for a station that busy.
--
Current nearest station: Sydenham Hill

"Matthew Dickinson" wrote in message
...
However, there is also an entrance to Southwark tube station on the
eastern ends of the platform. This leads down to the undercroft of
the
viaduct, which leads on to a hallway where there is a set of gates
that gains one access to the tube station, which one gets to by then
descending some escalators. This hallway is actually at street level,
but there's *no* exit to the street at all - it sits beside and a bit
under the southside of the viaduct, between Greet Street and
Hatfields
(another street). The reason for this is that it was a condition of
the planning permission of Southwark tube station that there wasn't a
public entrance/exit here - it's a quasi-residential area, so the
thinking presumably was to keep it quieter.


There are actually now two sets of gates facing each other
(Southeastern and TfL) with a small no-mans-land area in between where
there are Southeastern and Tfl ticket machines

I have visions of people without a pound to buy a platform ticket
stranded between the gates for evermore.

Peter Smyth

In uk.railway Peter Smyth wrote:
I have visions of people without a pound to buy a platform ticket
stranded between the gates for evermore.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road
that leads to destruction."

But perhaps Waterloo Road isn't /that/ bad...

Theo

In message , Theo Markettos
writes

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road
that leads to destruction."

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
poor person to enter the passageway of Southwark.

--
Paul Terry

On 28.01.10 14:51, martin wrote:
on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

I remember platform tickets a while ago. IIRC, they cost 40p. Are they
no longer available or is there not such a facility with Oyster if it is
not done within a few minutes?