on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

"martin" wrote in message
...
on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

It is perfectly reasonable for passengers to alight at Waterloo East and
want to go to Blackfriars Road, for which the Southwark tube exit is ideal.
Walking towards Waterloo and then back again is ridiculous and the fact that
this wasn't thought through when the station was opened shows very poor
judgement. It is true that the exit for Waterloo East is shown as via
Waterloo (and the signs to Southwark just say Jubilee Line), but it still
needs sorting out.

MaxB

On Jan 28, 3:38*pm, "Batman55" wrote:

"martin" wrote:
on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

====================

It is perfectly reasonable for passengers to alight at Waterloo East and
want to go to Blackfriars Road, for which the Southwark tube exit is ideal.
Walking towards Waterloo and then back again is ridiculous and the fact that
this wasn't thought through when the station was opened shows very poor
judgement. It is true that the exit for Waterloo East is shown as via
Waterloo (and the signs to Southwark just say Jubilee Line), but it still
needs sorting out.

It was thought through though - it was a condition of the planning
permission given for Southwark tube station that no new intermediate
exit from Waterloo East onto the street be created. Presumably this
was done to keep surrounding residential areas quieter.

On 28 Jan, 16:24, Mizter T wrote:
On Jan 28, 3:38*pm, "Batman55" wrote:





"martin" wrote:
on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

====================

It is perfectly reasonable for passengers to alight at Waterloo East and
want to go to Blackfriars Road, for which the Southwark tube exit is ideal.
Walking towards Waterloo and then back again is ridiculous and the fact that
this wasn't thought through when the station was opened shows very poor
judgement. It is true that the exit for Waterloo East is shown as via
Waterloo (and the signs to Southwark just say Jubilee Line), but it still
needs sorting out.

It was thought through though - it was a condition of the planning
permission given for Southwark tube station that no new intermediate
exit from Waterloo East onto the street be created. Presumably this
was done to keep surrounding residential areas quieter.

Does this condition no longer apply? Or is the £1 platform ticket
considered to be sufficient to price off a significant proportion of
the people who don't have travelcards?

It effectively does provide an exit for anyone with a travelcard,
which is a lot of people, and probably the majority of people at the
times when it's busiest. It's the obvious route from the south east
to TfL's offices, for example ...

On Jan 28, 6:23*pm, MIG wrote:

On 28 Jan, 16:24, Mizter T wrote:

On Jan 28, 3:38*pm, "Batman55" wrote:

"martin" wrote:
on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

====================

It is perfectly reasonable for passengers to alight at Waterloo East and
want to go to Blackfriars Road, for which the Southwark tube exit is ideal.
Walking towards Waterloo and then back again is ridiculous and the fact that
this wasn't thought through when the station was opened shows very poor
judgement. It is true that the exit for Waterloo East is shown as via
Waterloo (and the signs to Southwark just say Jubilee Line), but it still
needs sorting out.

It was thought through though - it was a condition of the planning
permission given for Southwark tube station that no new intermediate
exit from Waterloo East onto the street be created. Presumably this
was done to keep surrounding residential areas quieter.

Does this condition no longer apply? *Or is the £1 platform ticket
considered to be sufficient to price off a significant proportion of
the people who don't have travelcards?

You misunderstand me - AIUI planning permission for the station was
conditional on there simply being no new entrance to Waterloo East -
there were no associated conditions w.r.t. pax passing through
Southwark tube to get to Waterloo, though I suppose the letter of the
law might suggest that the (then) new Southwark tube station wasn't to
be used for such a purpose.


It effectively does provide an exit for anyone with a travelcard,
which is a lot of people, and probably the majority of people at the
times when it's busiest. *It's the obvious route from the south east
to TfL's offices, for example ...

Indeed, the Palestra building!

But I wouldn't be too quick to leap to conclusions about how many
commuters arriving at Waterloo East hold Travelcards - NR-only season
tickets can offer significantly savings...
e.g
Orpington (z6) to London Terminals - £139.10 (monthly)
zone 1-6 Travelcard - £182.80 (monthly)

All depends on what other travelling that person might be during that
month, of course. (And changes in PAYG bus and Tube fares versus the
Travelcard price has the potential to shift that calculus on an annual
basis!)

On 28 Jan, 16:24, Mizter T wrote:

It was thought through though...

Do you mind if I keep that sentence?

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 16:56:00 -0800, Offramp wrote:

On 28 Jan, 16:24, Mizter T wrote:

It was thought through though...

Do you mind if I keep that sentence?

I actually wondered how many times Mizter T looked at it as he wrote the
post thinking "I'm sure I've screwed that up somewhere...."

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:38:15 -0000
"Batman55" wrote:
It is perfectly reasonable for passengers to alight at Waterloo East and
want to go to Blackfriars Road, for which the Southwark tube exit is ideal.

If TfL can make some money somewhere they will. This has obviously been hiding
under their radar for a while doing no harm whatsoever since the station was
built and providing a nice shortcut for commuters. Can't have that now can we?
Must get every last penny.

I assume its just one new set of gates put in. Hopefully people will just
barge through them and with any luck break them.

B2003

On Jan 28, 4:37*pm, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:38:15 -0000
"Batman55" wrote:
It is perfectly reasonable for passengers to alight at Waterloo East and
want to go to Blackfriars Road, for which the Southwark tube exit is ideal.

If TfL can make some money somewhere they will. This has obviously been hiding
under their radar for a while doing no harm whatsoever since the station was
built and providing a nice shortcut for commuters. Can't have that now can we?
Must get every last penny.

I assume its just one new set of gates put in. Hopefully people will just
barge through them and with any luck break them.

No new gates (see my other posts).

Actually it seems possible that LU might have actually opened up this
shortcut to people who previously didn't have access to it - the other
option being that they've withdrawn the free gate pass previously
offered to NR season tickets holders to enable them to use this
shortcut.

On Jan 28, 2:51*pm, martin wrote:

on BBC London News this lunchtime:
"Transport for London (TfL) has been called "stingy" and "Scrooge-
like" for imposing a £1 charge on rail passengers using a short-cut
through a station."

Full story at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8484960.stm

What's the real deal here? Is this just a charge to enter one station
and exit another, or if I got the Jubilee to Southwark and exited
through an exit at Waterloo East, would I be charged an extra quid?
(I've never used Waterloo East, and think I've only been to Southwark
once, so I'm not clear on the layout of the station or this
'expensive' corridor.)

To be clear, the story appears to specifically relate to a £1 *paper*
"platform ticket" which is required if one wants to use Southwark tube
station as a shortcut between Waterloo East and the main entrance of
Southwark tube station on the corner of The Cut and Blackfriars Road -
what's more, the story says that "Oyster and travelcard users are not
charged" - whether that definitely includes Oyster PAYG users is not
100% clear.

To understand this, you need to have some knowledge of the geography
here. The Waterloo East platforms are accessed via a high walkway from
Waterloo mainline station (with an additional entrance to this walkway
up several sets of stairs from Sandell Street). This leads one to an
overbridge on the western side of the platforms. The station is not
gated (at least it wasn't v recently).

However, there is also an entrance to Southwark tube station on the
eastern ends of the platform. This leads down to the undercroft of the
viaduct, which leads on to a hallway where there is a set of gates
that gains one access to the tube station, which one gets to by then
descending some escalators. This hallway is actually at street level,
but there's *no* exit to the street at all - it sits beside and a bit
under the southside of the viaduct, between Greet Street and Hatfields
(another street). The reason for this is that it was a condition of
the planning permission of Southwark tube station that there wasn't a
public entrance/exit here - it's a quasi-residential area, so the
thinking presumably was to keep it quieter.

So, what people do is they use Southwark tube station as a shortcut
between the Waterloo East platforms and the main entrance of the tube
station on the corner of The Cut and Blackfriars Road, instead of
having to walk round the longer way up on to the high walkway and then
down to street level and end up backtracking on oneself.

If you got the Jubilee to Southwark tube station, you'd find the exit
to Waterloo East signed as being for "National Rail ticket holders
only" - how PAYG has been implemented on NR at Waterloo East I don't
know, i.e. whether one has to touch-out from the Tube through the
gates and then touch back in on a standalone reader. However that's
***totally irrelevant*** to this issue - if you're on the Jubilee line
and want to go to either Waterloo mainline station or the surrounding
area thereof then you get off at Waterloo itself, rather than getting
off at Southwark and making a long and unnecessary detour via Waterloo
East.

*This issue* is about people arriving at Waterloo East who want to get
out to Blackfriars Road / The Cut quickly. These are people who'll
have tickets issued to "London Terminals" (i.e. not Travelcards).

One further thing - LU used to offer a free gate pass for holders of
NR season tickets (i.e. issued to "London Terminals") for use at
Southwark tube station so they could take advantage of this shortcut -
the article is not clear as to whether such a thing is still made
available, does anyone know?