I Wonder how many buses are running around at night (or in the dark) with
non working blind lamps?

I can't think of the last time I saw a fully working lamp set. Most I've
seen/used have only the number illuminated which is fine if you know what
number bus you want rather then where it's going, or even a old school 'via'
point.

Don't garages VDI there buses before they go out on a turn or diagram
whichever its called in bus world ?

Which comes back to the point people have made before - nice yellow/orange
LED destination displays would solve that problem (and the 'via' problem)

On Feb 11, 11:14*pm, "Q" ..@.. wrote:

Which comes back to the point people have made before - nice yellow/orange
LED destination displays would solve that problem (and the 'via' problem)

These can fail as well, of course.

But I agree. I don't see why London insists on being so backward.
Flipdot displays were crap, so I don't blame them for missing those
out, but it seems LED is a technology with few disadvantages.

Neil

On Feb 12, 8:15*am, Neil Williams wrote:

On Feb 11, 11:14*pm, "Q" ..@.. wrote:

Which comes back to the point people have made before - nice yellow/orange
LED destination displays would solve that problem (and the 'via' problem)

These can fail as well, of course.

But I agree. *I don't see why London insists on being so backward.
Flipdot displays were crap, so I don't blame them for missing those
out, but it seems LED is a technology with few disadvantages.

I disagree - I think blinds offer superior visibility over LED
displays, *if* they're backlit properly. From a distance I find LED
displays on buses hard to read, and also find the light they emit is
rather harsh.

On 12/02/2010 08:15, Neil Williams wrote:
But I agree. I don't see why London insists on being so backward.
Flipdot displays were crap, so I don't blame them for missing those
out, but it seems LED is a technology with few disadvantages.

The problem with many bus LED destination signs is that the LED is
matrix scanned rather slowly, so has a strobing problem when it goes
over bumpy roads.

Replace the driver with one that scans at a higher frequency and that
problem goes away.

That said, there's some TfL bus routes (the 84, for instance) that are
allowed LED destination signs; presumably because the route is largely
outside's TfL's area, so I think that much of the funding for that route
actually comes from Hertfordshire. It's also a strange route in the way
that oyster card validity is done. Supposedly, a passenger boarding
within Greater London can just swipe an oyster card, but is supposed to
pay extra for the leg outside of London. Quite a few passengers get
caught out by that on the return journey when oyster cards are not valid.

--
Simon Hewison

Neil Williams wrote on 12 February 2010 08:15:27 ...
On Feb 11, 11:14 pm, "Q" ..@.. wrote:

Which comes back to the point people have made before - nice yellow/orange
LED destination displays would solve that problem (and the 'via' problem)

These can fail as well, of course.

But I agree. I don't see why London insists on being so backward.
Flipdot displays were crap, so I don't blame them for missing those
out, but it seems LED is a technology with few disadvantages.

The technology might be OK if the resolution is high enough, but in
practice you get crude letter shapes with the letters g,j,p,q,y not
descending properly. If "backward" means retaining the elegant and
highly legible Johnston typeface, I'm all for it.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

"Richard J." wrote in message
om...

The technology might be OK if the resolution is high enough, but in
practice you get crude letter shapes with the letters g,j,p,q,y not
descending properly. If "backward" means retaining the elegant and highly
legible Johnston typeface, I'm all for it.

True - I have no problems with the blinds in Edinburgh for example, the
London yellow on black always tended to fade and look washed out quite quick
after sitting in the sun.

Ours though normally have the backlight off or broken which is fun on Tot Ct
Rd after a night out.

Leeds have LED and I've never had a problem with them either.

The Big Tour company (or someone like that in London) have LED's but they
have a mix of blue & orange/yellow. The blue is awful to read.

In uk.transport.london message
dia.com, Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:30:59, Richard J.
posted:

The technology might be OK if the resolution is high enough, but in
practice you get crude letter shapes with the letters g,j,p,q,y not
descending properly. If "backward" means retaining the elegant and
highly legible Johnston typeface, I'm all for it.

I have had 7-pin printers which used the middle 5 pins for "e", the
upper 6 for "E", the lower 6 for "g", and all bar the second for "j".
Characters were 7 dots wide, with the restriction that no pin could fire
in adjacent columns. The result was surprisingly legible, given those
limitations. Descenders should descend "below the line", but do not
need to descend far if, for "gpqy" the bode of the character does not
use the sixth row. Someone tell TfL.

--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Grandson-Of-RFC1036 is released. RFC 5536 Netnews Article Format is a
subset of Internet Message Format which is described in RFC 5532. The
RFCs are read together to determine standard Netnews article format.

Dr J R Stockton wrote on 13 February 2010
21:23:23 ...
In uk.transport.london message
dia.com, Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:30:59, Richard J.
posted:

The technology might be OK if the resolution is high enough, but in
practice you get crude letter shapes with the letters g,j,p,q,y not
descending properly. If "backward" means retaining the elegant and
highly legible Johnston typeface, I'm all for it.

I have had 7-pin printers which used the middle 5 pins for "e", the
upper 6 for "E", the lower 6 for "g", and all bar the second for "j".
Characters were 7 dots wide, with the restriction that no pin could fire
in adjacent columns. The result was surprisingly legible, given those
limitations. Descenders should descend "below the line", but do not
need to descend far if, for "gpqy" the bode of the character does not
use the sixth row. Someone tell TfL.

Designing a typeface that is legible on a moving vehicle at a distance
is rather more demanding than cobbling together a few dots on a piece of
paper. TfL are more careful about legibility than most other transport
operators, and I applaud their approach. The one area where they have
fallen down is destination displays on new tube trains, which are not
nearly as clear as the old blinds. I wouldn't want them to go down the
same path with buses until higher-resolution displays are available.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Feb 14, 2:12*am, "Richard J." wrote:
Dr J R Stockton wrote on 13 February 2010
21:23:23 ...

*TfL are more careful about legibility than most other transport
operators, and I applaud their approach. *
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I entirely agree, but I do think the current policy of only showing
the final destination is a retrograde step. Clarity and the avoidance
of clutter is important, but there are many routes where important
stops are missed off. Near me, the 466 shows the destination as
Addington Village and anyone who isn't local will not be aware that
the route serves Croydon, which is hugely more important.

Peter

Peter Heather wrote:

I do think the current policy of only showing
the final destination is a retrograde step. Clarity and the avoidance
of clutter is important, but there are many routes where important
stops are missed off. Near me, the 466 shows the destination as
Addington Village and anyone who isn't local will not be aware that
the route serves Croydon, which is hugely more important.

But anyone reading a via point can't know if the bus is going there or
coming from it.

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.