On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:22:30 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

When did this last change? The thing is, when i started being a student in
London, a few months ago, there was a big story in a student paper about
how our Great Helmsman, Mr Livingstone, had changed the rules in such a
way to make the LT card more use to people living in northeast London. Did
i imagine that?

The current list of interavailable routes (sourced from the September
issue of the National Rail Fares Manuals) is as follows:

+ Amersham–Marylebone
+ Finsbury Park–Kings Cross
+ Finsbury Park–Moorgate and intermediately
+ Liverpool Street–Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central (and
intermediately)
+ Gunnersbury–Richmond
+ Harrow & Wealdstone–Queens Park
+ Kentish Town–St Pancras/Kings Cross
Thameslink/Farringdon/Moorgate/Blackfriars/London Bridge/Elephant &
Castle
+ Kenton–Euston (but not joining or alighting at Kilburn High Road and
South Hampstead)
+ Stratford–Liverpool Street
+ Stratford–Custom House
+ Upminster–Fenchurch Street/Liverpool Street (but not joining or
alighting at Forest Gate & Maryland)

HTH,

Barry

--
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

DISCLAIMER: The above comments do not necessarily represent the
views of my employers.

"Barry Salter" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:22:30 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

When did this last change? The thing is, when i started being a student in
London, a few months ago, there was a big story in a student paper about
how our Great Helmsman, Mr Livingstone, had changed the rules in such a
way to make the LT card more use to people living in northeast London. Did
i imagine that?

The current list of interavailable routes (sourced from the September
issue of the National Rail Fares Manuals) is as follows:

+ Amersham–Marylebone
+ Finsbury Park–Kings Cross
+ Finsbury Park–Moorgate and intermediately
+ Liverpool Street–Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central (and
intermediately)
+ Gunnersbury–Richmond
+ Harrow & Wealdstone–Queens Park
+ Kentish Town–St Pancras/Kings Cross
Thameslink/Farringdon/Moorgate/Blackfriars/London Bridge/Elephant &
Castle
+ Kenton–Euston (but not joining or alighting at Kilburn High Road and
South Hampstead)
+ Stratford–Liverpool Street
+ Stratford–Custom House
+ Upminster–Fenchurch Street/Liverpool Street (but not joining or
alighting at Forest Gate & Maryland)

There seems to be some confusion between different sources about exactly what
routes are allowed.

National Fares Manual page L4 which you quote allows Liv St - SS/TH/WC and
all intermediate stations + H&W-QP and Kenton-Euston (which presumably is
intended to imply you can't use the non-stop trains from H&W - Euston).

Page K1.2 about the Youth LT card does not mention the Liverpool Street
routes at all and gives Kenton-Queens Park only.

Page K1.4 about the One Day LT card also does not mention Liv St routes but
gives Kenton-Euston.

Finally to complete the confusion
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fa...ts-may2003.pdf
lists Liv St - SS/TH/WC but NOT at intermediate stations and Kenton-Euston

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Peter Smyth wrote:

"Barry Salter" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:22:30 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

there was a big story in a student paper about how our Great
Helmsman, Mr Livingstone, had changed the rules in such a way to make
the LT card more use to people living in northeast London.

The current list of interavailable routes (sourced from the September
issue of the National Rail Fares Manuals) is as follows:

[snip]

+ Liverpool Street–Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central (and
intermediately)

That's the bunny!

National Fares Manual page L4 which you quote allows Liv St - SS/TH/WC and
all intermediate stations

[snip]

Finally to complete the confusion
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fa...ts-may2003.pdf
lists Liv St - SS/TH/WC but NOT at intermediate stations

So, national rail (and so WAGN) will let me use my LT card on the train,
but TfL won't. Well, since it's WAGN who actually operate the train, i
reckon it's worth a try. Provided, of course, that i can escape from the
tube station without being caught - possibly using a tunnel of some sort
("For you, Tommy, ze journey is over!").

tom

--
We start here and head south.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:39:38 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

So, national rail (and so WAGN) will let me use my LT card on the train,
but TfL won't. Well, since it's WAGN who actually operate the train, i
reckon it's worth a try. Provided, of course, that i can escape from the
tube station without being caught - possibly using a tunnel of some sort
("For you, Tommy, ze journey is over!").

This change was, in fact, made back in March, as follows:

quote

LT Tickets are valid on train operating company services over the
following sections:

Liverpool Street-Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central

These amendments begin to integrate fares pricing on West Anglia routes
from the Victoria Line south with the London Underground zonal pricing
structure. This simplifies the journey experience for the passenger by
providing a greater level of travel opportunities.

Examples:

An LT Card is valid for a journey between Liverpool Street and
Walthamstow Central on West Anglia services.

A zone U12 underground ticket issued at Oxford Circus is valid on West
Anglia services to Clapton. (Gates at Liverpool Street have been
programmed to allow such a journey opportunity).

A Seven Sisters to Zone U123 single is valid either by Victoria Line or
West Anglia services to Liverpool Street. Fares to 'London Terminals'
will, over time match the LU price, so the customer will be issued the
destination 'U123' even if the journey is to Liverpool Street only. At
the moment, the SDS at Seven Sisters, for example, is £2.30 for either
destination so the U123 destination should be issued.

A Hackney Downs to Liverpool Street SDS fare should still be issued as
'London Terminals' for passenger journeys to that destination and a Zone
U12 issued for onward journeys on LUL services via Liverpool Street.

/quote

HTH,

Barry

--
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

DISCLAIMER: The above comments do not necessarily represent the
views of my employers.

(sandy) wrote in message . com...
Tom Anderson wrote in message ...
Hi,

TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services.";
that suggests that there are services where it is specifically valid.
Could anyone tell me what they are? In particular, does it include WAGN's
Liverpool Street to Chingford service, or the Silverlink north London
orbital route (that runs through Hackney Central and Finchley Road,
amongst other places). Also, does it make any difference if it's a student
LT card?

I've googled the web and this group, looked on TfL's website and asked a
chap at a tube station, but haven't found an answer.


http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fa...ts-may2003.pdf on page 18
has the full list of National Rail services for which LU tickets
(including LT Cards) are valid.

For Student Cards, are they LT Cards or Travelcards? I believe in
January that the 16-17 Card is becoming a travelcard and is being
decreased in price to child fares. I don't know whether the Student
Card would get decreased but if it is an LT card now will it become a
Travelcard in January?

"Peter Smyth" wrote in message ...
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...
Hi,

TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services.";
that suggests that there are services where it is specifically valid.
Could anyone tell me what they are? In particular, does it include WAGN's
Liverpool Street to Chingford service, or the Silverlink north London
orbital route (that runs through Hackney Central and Finchley Road,
amongst other places). Also, does it make any difference if it's a student
LT card?

I've googled the web and this group, looked on TfL's website and asked a
chap at a tube station, but haven't found an answer.

The full list of NR service on which LT cards are valid a

Amersham - Marylebone
Finsbury Park - King's Cross/Moorgate
Kentish Town - Moorgate/Elephant & Castle/London Bridge
Kenton - Euston (not at Kilburn High Road or South Hampstead)
Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters (not at
any intermediate stations)
Richmond - Gunnersbury
Stratford - Custom House
Stratford - Liverpool Street
Upminster - Fenchurch Street/Liverpool Street
West Ruislip - South Ruislip

Peter Smyth


Are LT cards usable at Harrow and Wealdstone station at all then? The
earlier list of routes appeared to imply that the cards were valid on
Silverlink services from that station up to Queen's Park, but that
distinction between journeys looks unenforceable in practice, unless
you boarded a fast train to Euston.

On 21 Nov 2003, CJC wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote in message ...

TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services.";

For Student Cards, are they LT Cards or Travelcards?

At present, they're LT cards.

I believe in January that the 16-17 Card is becoming a travelcard and is
being decreased in price to child fares. I don't know whether the
Student Card would get decreased but if it is an LT card now will it
become a Travelcard in January?

Now *that* would be nice. Especially if the price went down too!

tom

--
Throw bricks at lawyers if you can!

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Barry Salter wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:39:38 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

So, national rail (and so WAGN) will let me use my LT card on the train,
but TfL won't.

This change was, in fact, made back in March, as follows:

Ah! Fantastic!

I asked the station mistress (well, station madam, or something; just the
woman selling tickets, actually) at my train station, and she said it
wasn't valid, but this definitely makes it look like she was wrong.

quote

May i ask where the quote is from?

LT Tickets are valid on train operating company services over the
following sections:

Liverpool Street-Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central

These amendments begin to integrate fares pricing on West Anglia routes
from the Victoria Line south with the London Underground zonal pricing
structure. This simplifies the journey experience for the passenger by
providing a greater level of travel opportunities.

Examples:

An LT Card is valid for a journey between Liverpool Street and
Walthamstow Central on West Anglia services.

A zone U12 underground ticket issued at Oxford Circus is valid on West
Anglia services to Clapton. (Gates at Liverpool Street have been
programmed to allow such a journey opportunity).

It doesn't explicitly mention LT cards and stops between Liverpool Street
and Walthamstow Central; however, i assume from these examples that an LT
card would be valid for going to, say, Clapton, which is what i want to
do.

HTH,

It does, very much. Thanks.

tom

--
Throw bricks at lawyers if you can!

Tom Anderson wrote:

On 21 Nov 2003, CJC wrote:


Tom Anderson wrote in message ...


TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services.";

For Student Cards, are they LT Cards or Travelcards?


At present, they're LT cards.

Which leads to the question... why aren't they TfL cards?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:36:39 +0000, Dave Arquati
wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On 21 Nov 2003, CJC wrote:


Tom Anderson wrote in message ...


TfL says "The LT Card is not generally valid on National Rail services.";

For Student Cards, are they LT Cards or Travelcards?


At present, they're LT cards.

Which leads to the question... why aren't they TfL cards?

Its for _historic_ reasons. In memory of LT.

1/7/33 - 16/7/03.

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk