In message of Wed, 24 Feb
2010 22:49:20 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:22:35 +0000, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

What sort of incident investigation would this stimulate?

The usual investigation process that arises whenever there is a delay
longer than 2 minutes. The cause and responsibility has to be determined
for attribution purposes. I am sure that the entire operation of the
revised service pattern is subject to additional detailed scrutiny so
that all of the issues are assessed, lessons learnt and changes made.

[snip]

Thanks Paul for solid information.

Colin: I understand the DDA is a best efforts business. There was a
minor loss of wheelchair access westbound with the introduction of the
teacup - slower timetabled journeys. The serious limitation that
Paddington is only accessible clockwise continues. Paddington's access
is not on the Dec 2009 Step-free Tube guide. The tube map doesn't show
one way access.

My grouse, as a passenger without mobility impairment, is that there is
no information at platform 4 on the first train to High Street
Kensington. About a month ago, I arrived on 4 to find trains waiting at
2 and 3. A platform CSA (admittedly from an SST - peripatetic staff to
deal with local shortages) had no information and did not volunteer to
find any. Help points are not provided. I took the lazy decision which
turned out to be sub-optimal.

Colin: I believe my eastbound Circle line train had come via High Street
Kensington and, so, arrived on the advertised platform. A decision to
allow it to continue eastbound was taken to minimised customer delay. I
think it a pity that LU publishes so little on the web about disruption.

All: I am afraid I failed to note the URL for reliability statistics,
which was recently given in utl. Aggregation of Circle and Hammersmith &
City may reflect operational reality, but provides a poor measurement
for customers. I recall the aggregation achieving about 90% before the
service revision, where all other lines achieve 95%+. 93% would be good!
--
Walter Briscoe

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:


Yes it is. There is cross-platform interchange to a District train
to Wimbledon via High Street Kensington. I realise that if you
wanted to go further round the Circle, you'd also have to alight at
HSK and wait on the same platform there.

Not very convincing if there is no District train in sight!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote on 25 February 2010 09:43:19 ...
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Yes it is. There is cross-platform interchange to a District train
to Wimbledon via High Street Kensington. I realise that if you
wanted to go further round the Circle, you'd also have to alight at
HSK and wait on the same platform there.

Not very convincing if there is no District train in sight!

Nonsense! Cross-platform interchange doesn't mean there's always a
train there waiting for you!
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Feb 25, 9:20*am, Walter Briscoe
wrote:
In message of Wed, 24 Feb
All: I am afraid I failed to note the URL for reliability statistics,
which was recently given in utl. Aggregation of Circle and Hammersmith &
City may reflect operational reality, but provides a poor measurement
for customers. I recall the aggregation achieving about 90% before the
service revision, where all other lines achieve 95%+. 93% would be good!

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...U-Feb-2010.pdf

--
Paul C
via Google

In message , at
02:17:12 on Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Richard J.
remarked:
Sorry Colin, but what is there to not believe?

All Roland has described is the standard platforming, as discussed here in
u.t.l many times previously, and EXACTLY as described in last October's TfL
leaflet...
I was under the impression that it would be possible to change
without climbing the stairs. But this is clearly not implemented
westbound.

Yes it is. There is cross-platform interchange to a District train to
Wimbledon via High Street Kensington. I realise that if you wanted to
go further round the Circle, you'd also have to alight at HSK and wait
on the same platform there.

What were the origin and destination of your journey? It is relevant
to this discussion.

I was travelling from Rurostar@StP to the Wimbledon branch. Given that
there was no District Line train waiting at Edgware Rd, but there was a
Circle train, I decided to try going via Gloucester Rd (yes, another up
and down the stairs change required).

Given where I was starting from, I couldn't be bothered to trek all the
way to the Piccadilly Line.

ps. On the way back at 8pm the line was closed at Notting Hill (signal
failure) so the train went to Mansion House rather than Edgware Rd. I
changed to at Victoria for St Pancras (MML).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 18:12:30
on Wed, 24 Feb 2010, remarked:

I asked Roland about signs in case they held out any promises to anyone
who might have thought of waiting.

They are a good indication of which platform to head for, after you've
chosen which line you want. What they don't do is help you decide which
line you want to get for stations from Paddington to HSK, nor do they
promote the "change at HSK" solution.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 18:57:26
on Wed, 24 Feb 2010, remarked:
The platforms have permanent signs which clearly state where the
trains will be heading.

And when trains don't use the right platforms, as Walter Briscoe reports
elsewhere (Eastbound Circle on 2)?

They are painted (enamelled or whatever) signs. So will be inaccurate as
soon as there's disruption.

There was also a PA announcement at the
station, and one or two on the train (or possibly on the platform
at earlier stations) before it arrived.

Saying what (in gist)?

The one at Edgware Road was advertising the Circle Line train on
platform 2, the one on the train was warning that the Circle was now
"permanently" [1] teacupped, and that a change at ER was required for
people wanting to continue their CL journey.

[1] That's a very long time, even in politics.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
(Walter Briscoe) wrote:

In message of Wed, 24 Feb
2010 22:49:20 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:22:35 +0000, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

What sort of incident investigation would this stimulate?

The usual investigation process that arises whenever there is a delay
longer than 2 minutes. The cause and responsibility has to be
determined for attribution purposes. I am sure that the entire
operation of the revised service pattern is subject to additional
detailed scrutiny so that all of the issues are assessed, lessons
learnt and changes made.

[snip]

Thanks Paul for solid information.

Colin: I understand the DDA is a best efforts business. There was a
minor loss of wheelchair access westbound with the introduction of the
teacup - slower timetabled journeys. The serious limitation that
Paddington is only accessible clockwise continues. Paddington's access
is not on the Dec 2009 Step-free Tube guide. The tube map doesn't show
one way access.

My grouse, as a passenger without mobility impairment, is that there is
no information at platform 4 on the first train to High Street
Kensington. About a month ago, I arrived on 4 to find trains waiting at
2 and 3. A platform CSA (admittedly from an SST - peripatetic staff to
deal with local shortages) had no information and did not volunteer to
find any. Help points are not provided. I took the lazy decision which
turned out to be sub-optimal.

The lack of information at Edgware Road also sounds like a serious
deterioration too. I don't think I've ever met a helpful member of
platform staff there either.

Colin: I believe my eastbound Circle line train had come via High Street
Kensington and, so, arrived on the advertised platform. A decision to
allow it to continue eastbound was taken to minimised customer delay. I
think it a pity that LU publishes so little on the web about disruption.

Wouldn't help many people on the move. They need it on the platforms!

All: I am afraid I failed to note the URL for reliability statistics,
which was recently given in utl. Aggregation of Circle and Hammersmith &
City may reflect operational reality, but provides a poor measurement
for customers. I recall the aggregation achieving about 90% before the
service revision, where all other lines achieve 95%+. 93% would be good!

I'm not mobility-impaired either but I do sometimes have luggage and other
impedimenta. Luckily the granddaughter gets older and more able to walk
herself over the footbridge as time goes by.

And they say the new service is an improvement! Edgware Road sounds worse
than ever, especially for information. *Why* can they still not show which
is the first train for High St in this day and age?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Feb 25, 11:25*am, wrote:

In article ,
(Walter Briscoe) wrote:

[snip]

Colin: I understand the DDA is a best efforts business. There was a
minor loss of wheelchair access westbound with the introduction of the
teacup - slower timetabled journeys. The serious limitation that
Paddington is only accessible clockwise continues. Paddington's access
is not on the Dec 2009 Step-free Tube guide. The tube map doesn't show
one way access.

My grouse, as a passenger without mobility impairment, is that there is
no information at platform 4 on the first train to High Street
Kensington. About a month ago, I arrived on 4 to find trains waiting at
2 and 3. A platform CSA (admittedly from an SST - peripatetic staff to
deal with local shortages) had no information and did not volunteer to
find any. Help points are not provided. I took the lazy decision which
turned out to be sub-optimal.

The lack of information at Edgware Road also sounds like a serious
deterioration too. I don't think I've ever met a helpful member of
platform staff there either.

Hold on, if it was never any good, how can it be a serious
deterioration. I demand rhetoric with at least some logic underpinning
it ;-)


Colin: I believe my eastbound Circle line train had come via High Street
Kensington and, so, arrived on the advertised platform. A decision to
allow it to continue eastbound was taken to minimised customer delay. I
think it a pity that LU publishes so little on the web about disruption..

Wouldn't help many people on the move. They need it on the platforms!

All: I am afraid I failed to note the URL for reliability statistics,
which was recently given in utl. Aggregation of Circle and Hammersmith &
City may reflect operational reality, but provides a poor measurement
for customers. I recall the aggregation achieving about 90% before the
service revision, where all other lines achieve 95%+. 93% would be good!

I'm not mobility-impaired either but I do sometimes have luggage and other
impedimenta. Luckily the granddaughter gets older and more able to walk
herself over the footbridge as time goes by.

And they say the new service is an improvement! Edgware Road sounds worse
than ever, especially for information. *Why* can they still not show which
is the first train for High St in this day and age?

Because the signalling system isn't from this day and age.

Just because Edgware Road might be a bit messy that doesn't invalidate
the notion that the service has improved. Well, maybe it does to you.
To me, the idea that the Circle line might actually work means I might
start to acknowledge its existence.

In article
,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Feb 25, 9:20*am, Walter Briscoe
wrote:
In message of Wed, 24 Feb
All: I am afraid I failed to note the URL for reliability statistics,
which was recently given in utl. Aggregation of Circle and Hammersmith
& City may reflect operational reality, but provides a poor
measurement for customers. I recall the aggregation achieving about
90% before the service revision, where all other lines achieve 95%+.
93% would be good!


http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ing-Director-R
eport-RUP-LU-Feb-2010.pdf

Showing, FWIW, the only period shown for last year and this (9) as worse
for the Circle and Hammersmith.

--
Colin Rosenstiel