Mizter T wrote:

But why are these posters being given such prominence at stations
within the London zones - the evening restrictions irrelevant to any
pax setting out on their outbound journey at those stations (e.g.
there's no Super Off-Peak fares or Travelcards for journeys from
London stations into Waterloo, because all rail fares in London are
uniform across all TOCs).

Indeed I wonder why the yellow stickers with information about Super
Off-Peak evening restrictions have been stuck to SWT TVMs at places
like Vauxhall when they don't have any relevance - is it just to add
to the general confusion over fares?!


AFAICT Vauxhall should be expected to have posters up, because the
restrictions are relevant to people returning FROM Vauxhall TO 'a station
outside the zones', ie Vauxhall as the London Terminal.

If you look at the restrictions from the point of view of a passenger from
stations outside the zonal area [where SOP tickets are actually sold], you
would expect to see posters at Waterloo - Clapham Jn inclusive, because they
are the only stations which have the return restriction according to the
publicity - Earlsfield and Wansworth Town onwards are supposed to be OK
after all.

But the Yellow sticker itself is superfluous within the zones.as you cannot
buy SWT SOPs there...

Paul S

On Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 06:21:43PM +0000, Michael R N Dolbear wrote:

Given the publicity about the extension of PAYG, looking for a leaflet
or at a website seems a reasonable thing for a "layperson" to do.

On the contrary, given the publicity about the extension of PAYG, a
layperson could reasonably expect it to Just Work. If he's familiar
with how PAYG works on the Tube, then he wouldn't expect to have to
learn all kinds of extra crazy rules for the trains.

There are posters up about OEPs at Thornton Heath, but I only know
because I know to look for them from hearing about the silly things
here. At a quick glance, they look indistinguishable from the posters
that Southern normally put up when they tell lies about how sorry they
are that their trains are late, and consequently I would expect no-one
to read them.

--
David Cantrell | Minister for Arbitrary Justice

I don't do .INI, .BAT, or .SYS files. I don't assign apps to files.
I don't configure peripherals or networks before using them. I have
a computer to do all that. I have a Macintosh, not a hobby.
-- Fritz Anderson

David Cantrell wrote:
On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 01:33:47PM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

Indeed. What's required is a better paradigm for loading an OEP on your
Oyster-travelcard. For example, machines in Central London at places
where people start their journeys to the suburbs marked:

"Travelling beyond your Oyster travelcard zones today? Then touch here".

And, of course, vice versa for those who live in, say, zone 4, work in
zone 2, and so have a 2-4 travelcard, but occasionally travel into zone 1.


These people have it even worse though, since at many stations round
here* you can't get an OEP but have to search out a newsagent or
similar. I'd love to see that one stand up in court if they get gripped
between Z2 and Z1 and fined.

Tom

* SWT, the Oyster-hating people, natch

In message , David
Cantrell writes

On Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 06:21:43PM +0000, Michael R N Dolbear wrote:

Given the publicity about the extension of PAYG, looking for a leaflet
or at a website seems a reasonable thing for a "layperson" to do.

On the contrary, given the publicity about the extension of PAYG, a
layperson could reasonably expect it to Just Work. If he's familiar
with how PAYG works on the Tube, then he wouldn't expect to have to
learn all kinds of extra crazy rules for the trains.

The average layperson seems to have learnt the difference between tubes
and buses - you have to touch out on the former, but not on the latter.

I'm not defending OEPs - they are a ridiculous idea - but I do object to
the suggestion that the average person is incapable of learning
something new.
--
Paul Terry

In article ,
(Tom Barry) wrote:

David Cantrell wrote:
On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 01:33:47PM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

Indeed. What's required is a better paradigm for loading an OEP on
your Oyster-travelcard. For example, machines in Central London at
places where people start their journeys to the suburbs marked:

"Travelling beyond your Oyster travelcard zones today? Then touch
here".

And, of course, vice versa for those who live in, say, zone 4, work in
zone 2, and so have a 2-4 travelcard, but occasionally travel into
zone 1.

These people have it even worse though, since at many stations
round here* you can't get an OEP but have to search out a newsagent
or similar. I'd love to see that one stand up in court if they get
gripped between Z2 and Z1 and fined.

Tom

* SWT, the Oyster-hating people, natch

Never mind OEPs, SWT are a PITA for my Vauxhall-Putney trips for lack of
Oyster support. But now I know where a handy Ticket Stop is in Putney, I'm
happy to pay half what I paid last year, I suppose.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Paul Scott wrote

Indeed I wonder why the yellow stickers with information about
Super
Off-Peak evening restrictions have been stuck to SWT TVMs at places
like Vauxhall when they don't have any relevance - is it just to
add
to the general confusion over fares?!

AFAICT Vauxhall should be expected to have posters up, because the
restrictions are relevant to people returning FROM Vauxhall TO 'a
station
outside the zones', ie Vauxhall as the London Terminal.

If you look at the restrictions from the point of view of a passenger
from
stations outside the zonal area [where SOP tickets are actually
sold], you
would expect to see posters at Waterloo - Clapham Jn inclusive,
because they
are the only stations which have the return restriction according to
the
publicity - Earlsfield and Wansworth Town onwards are supposed to be
OK
after all.

But the Yellow sticker itself is superfluous within the zones.as you
cannot
buy SWT SOPs there...


So a off-peak from Vauxhall to Woking has no evening-peak restrictions
?

Also you could buy a SOP on the internet and pick it up at a Vauxhall
or other in-zone machine.

--
Mike D

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
news:01cac098$1671d000$LocalHost@default...
Paul Scott wrote


AFAICT Vauxhall should be expected to have posters up, because the
restrictions are relevant to people returning FROM Vauxhall TO 'a
station
outside the zones', ie Vauxhall as the London Terminal.

If you look at the restrictions from the point of view of a passenger
from
stations outside the zonal area [where SOP tickets are actually
sold], you
would expect to see posters at Waterloo - Clapham Jn inclusive,
because they
are the only stations which have the return restriction according to
the
publicity - Earlsfield and Wansworth Town onwards are supposed to be
OK
after all.

So a off-peak from Vauxhall to Woking has no evening-peak restrictions
?

???? Offpeak tickets have no afternoon restrictions on SWT.
But we were discussing Super Off Peak tickets in particular - they DO have
restrictions from Vauxhall, covered by 'Waterloo - Clapham Jn inclusive', as
stated above. Incidentally they are are also restricted from Victoria.

Paul S

On Mar 10, 11:46 pm, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:

Paul Scott wrote

Indeed I wonder why the yellow stickers with information about
Super Off-Peak evening restrictions have been stuck to
SWT TVMs at places like Vauxhall when they don't have any
relevance - is it just to add to the general confusion over fares?!

AFAICT Vauxhall should be expected to have posters up, because
the restrictions are relevant to people returning FROM Vauxhall TO
'a station outside the zones', ie Vauxhall as the London Terminal.
If you look at the restrictions from the point of view of a passenger
from stations outside the zonal area [where SOP tickets are
actually sold], you would expect to see posters at Waterloo -
Clapham Jn inclusive, because they are the only stations which
have the return restriction according to the publicity - Earlsfield
and Wansworth Town onwards are supposed to be OK after all.
But the Yellow sticker itself is superfluous within the zones.as you
cannot buy SWT SOPs there...

So a off-peak from Vauxhall to Woking has no evening-peak restrictions
?

Eh? No SWT Off-Peak ticket has any evening peak restrictions. Only SWT
*Super* Off-Peak tickets have evening peak restrictions.


Also you could buy a SOP on the internet and pick it up at a Vauxhall
or other in-zone machine.

No need - differential fares are charged depending on whether one is
heading into or out of London - in other words, it's cheaper to buy a
ticket starting *from* London than one going *to* London. Example...


* From Bournemouth to London Terminals:
SOP Day Single - 41.10
OP Day Single - n/a
Anytime Day Single - 43.70
~
SOP Day Return - 41.20
OP Day Return - 46.20
OP (period) Return - 46.30
Anytime Day Return - 84.20
Anytime (period) Return - 87.40


* From London Terminals to Bournemouth:
SOP Day Single - n/a
OP Day Single - 41.60
Anytime Day Single - 43.70
~
SOP Day Return - n/a
OP Day Return - 41.70
OP (period) Return - 46.30
Anytime Day Return - 45.80
Anytime (period) Return - 87.40


The OP Day Return fare *from* London (at £41.70) is therefore just 50p
more than the SOP Day Return fare *to* London (at £41.20). Off-peak
fares from London stations are available on all departures after
9:30am.

Paul Terry wrote:

The average layperson seems to have learnt the difference between tubes
and buses - you have to touch out on the former, but not on the latter.

I'm not defending OEPs - they are a ridiculous idea - but I do object to
the suggestion that the average person is incapable of learning something
new.

Yes but it depends how much research is needed. I cannot recall seeing
anything on National Express about OEPs and the posters about Oystyer at my
local station are just the "you can use it on us now" type - precisely the
opposite of "there are different rules" to learn. Remember also that PAYG
was always available on Liverpool Street to Stratford (amongst other routes)
and you didn't need OEPs then so it's not just "different from the tube" but
"different from how it's worked on the same train". Is the average layperson
expected to trawl the web every week to see if the rules have changed?

In message , Tim Roll-Pickering
writes

Yes but it depends how much research is needed. I cannot recall seeing
anything on National Express about OEPs and the posters about Oystyer at my
local station are just the "you can use it on us now" type - precisely the
opposite of "there are different rules" to learn.

By the same reasoning, you could argue that people will touch in at
Liverpool Street and expect to touch out at Norwich. Just saying that
you can use Oyster on the NE

Remember also that PAYG was always available on Liverpool Street to
Stratford (amongst other routes) and you didn't need OEPs then

Nor do you now if all you are using is PAYG.

If, on the other hand, you were using a travelcard, you needed an
extension ticket to travel beyond your zones.

Is the average layperson expected to trawl the web every week to see
if the rules have changed?

Now you're being silly. PAYG was extended to National Rail at the start
of January. Nothing has changed since then.

--
Paul Terry